New Amarra 4

[DancingSea]

I scan the whole library by pointing the xml-file, and that is time consuming if you have about 18000 songs. And then I play them random during the day. I normally do some adding/correcting in iTunes, so I want to have a background refresh functionality in Amarra. In Audirvana I only use the sync functionality and that is working fine. In Amarra I must clear and load again.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

You could drag all 18,000 songs into a separate folder. In Amarra, use the scan folder feature instead of the scan iTunes feature to import into Amarra 4. To add stray songs, just drag from iTunes into the folder and rescan in Amarra. It will only add the new songs, not all 18,000.

 

Just an idea!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[DancingSea]

I am having the following issues with Amarra 4 purchased.

 

About 20 albums are being classified as "Various Artists" when they clearly are not. I open the album and edit the Meta Data to change from Various Artists to whatever the album artist is and then save. When I reopen, the album is still classified as Various Artists.

 

I cannot fine a away to adjust the EQ settings even though there is a Custom and User radio button available.

 

The SQ is nowhere near as good as using sQ+ and iTunes.

Its so funny how subjective all of this is. I considered purchasing SQ+ during the last Pi sale. I tried it with both iTunes and Tidal. I thought the sound of Amarra 4 was so much better, that I decided to wait for Luxe and continue to use Amarra HiFi for iTunes.

 

Its like we're inmates is some sort of asylum with nice audio equipment, chasing windmills only seen and heard by ourselves.

[DancingSea]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:52 AM, jos said:

Ralph, I never had any loading issues with Amarra4 4. It's because my ITunes system is a very clean one with only ALAC files. The first time loading Amarra 4 I could determine a few AIFF files (leftovers after converting to ALAC files). I would advice everyone to convert all your files in iTunes to ALAC. It's also important to give every track an album-artist name. One question: why is Amarra loading empty playlists, like movies?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

I have many AIFF files, along with even more ALAC.  For me, all load equally well.  The only snag came with a couple of one track SACD rips.  Meaning, the whole album, in this case, Garcia & Grisman, was one long 6 GB track.  This caused Amarra 4 to crash on import.  And that was in the ALAC format.  But I think it was the track size more than anything else.....

I revisited Amarra SQ to use with iTunes and Tidal.  I find Amarra HiFi better sounding for iTunes and will wait for Luxe to use with Tidal - though SQ did sound good with Tidal, just prefer A4's overall sound to SQ....

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, Amarra_Support said:

Try the updated build of Amarra 4 for the larger files, you should be able to load the Garcia&Grisman track without issue in v233.

best

Ralph

Hi Ralph - yes, the Garcia & Grisman 6 GB track does now load and play into A4 using the scan folder option.  For some reason, the Artist and Album metadata didn't make it, even though its correct in iTunes.

 

When is Luxe coming?!?!

[DancingSea]

4 hours ago, Wotan said:

Would it be possible to sort by 'Album Artist' instead of 'Artist'?

Not in A4's current incarnation...

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, Rodolfo85 said:

I think I find a solution. It's not the most comfortable, but it seems to  work.

in the several cds albums, you have to assign consecutive numbers to the tracks. I mean, instead cd1 tracks 1-10 and cd2 tracks 1-10, reasign cd1 tracks 1-10 and cd2 tracks 11-20.

it works. It seams that amarra doesn't take care about the cd number metadata.

 

 

Yes, that's the issue, the tracks all need different numbers.  Amarra 4 doesn't understand "disc 1 of 2".  I have a multi disc Grateful Dead show that has 101 - 108 for disc 1, 201 - 205 for disc 2, and 301 - 308 for disc 3.  Amarra understands it as a multi disc set and keeps the tracks in order.  But there's really no excuse for having to reassign track numbers to get multi-disc sets to play normally.  Seems a lack of attention rather than any great engineering feat.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, Rodolfo85 said:

v.237? in the web is the 234 until now (03/31/17)

 

A number of CA members participate in the Amarra 4 beta testing program.  The latest version is 237.  I imagine you could PM Ralph from Sonic Studios and he'll add you to the beta test emails...

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, Raym87 said:

Ok, I give up! How do you delete a single album from the library?

 

Oh, that's just another one of the those cute little quirks that makes Amarra so charming.... to remove one, you have to clear the whole library.

[DancingSea]

On 4/15/2017 at 9:38 PM, foodfiend said:

Still struggling with Amarra 4 and loading my music library of about 100k songs. Library management really sucks, even if it sounds good.

 

I personally find the library management of all these 3rd party audiophile players to "suck" (HQP, A4, A+, Fidelia, etc).  By that I mean their own internal system.  None measure up to iTunes.  A+ does better in iTunes integration mode, though playback is not always gapless.  I'm in the "Roon's price makes no sense" camp, but even it, for me, in terms of library management - is less functional than iTunes.

 

I own A+, A4, HQP and Fidelia.  I use them all as players only, importing the evening's picks one session at a time and fully letting go of any notion they will solve the full featured library management puzzle any time soon.

[DancingSea]

4 hours ago, GregWormald said:

I finally got A4 to load my library of 35,000 songs--it took a few re-starts and re-installs, and I have to leave it overnight to do it's stuff as loading is SLOW! However, the sorting still needs work, eg. there are 170 albums listed under "various"--some are compilations, some have two major artists only, and some have only one! (Yes, the meta-data is correct.) 

 

All groups with a "The" at the beginning are sorted under "T".

 

I really wish they would re-establish the "Playlist" mode from A3 which integrated well with iTunes.

 

The major issue that I much prefer the musicality of A4 over any of the other players I've tried.

 

Greg

 

I'm with you brother... in the exact same boat..... 

[DancingSea]

6 hours ago, Otherworld74 said:

>>I really wish they would re-establish the "Playlist" mode from A3 which integrated well with iTunes.

 

I concur. It would be nice to toggle between iTunes database and the new Amarra database. This would allow for a transition period as the new Amarra database goes through growing pains.

 

Yes, absolutely.  Ralph, pretty please tell us this will be a feature of Luxe!

[DancingSea]

I think its all a matter of perspective.  As a library management/ iTunes replacement - Amarra 4 does fail.  But as a player in which one quickly imports the evenings listening session material from iTunes via a separate go between folder - Amarra does fairly well.  That mixed with the superb sound has left me satisfied enough to use it every day.

 

Each evening I clear out the library and import a playlist ranging from a few CD's, to a 1000 songs, or more.  I drag the selections to the go between folder, and import just that folder in Amarra.   Works well enough.

 

It wasn't that long ago that we had to contend with CD players, one CD at a time.  In that light, its not such a big deal to take 3 minutes to drag tracks around for A4 importation.

[DancingSea]

In my system, the SQ difference between A4 and A+ is not small......

[DancingSea]

Aloha From Maui,

 

My method was posted far earlier in this thread.  But it goes like this.  Create a folder on your desktop, or an external hard drive called something like "Amarra Selections".  Call it whatever you like.

 

From iTunes, drag whatever playlist - or CD's you'd like to listen to for the evening, or for several days - into the "Amarra Selections".  Of course, you can drag FLAC files from outside of iTunes into your "Amarra Selections" folder.  I've kept it under 1000 tracks at a time, sometimes only a few CD's.  In Amarra 4's settings, "Clear Songs".  The select "Choose Folder", and navigate to your "Amarra Selections" folder that was created earlier.  The "Scan For Music", which will quickly scan the "Amarra Selections" folder and import whatever you put there.

 

The Amarra 4 library essentially becomes your nightly (or day's) playlist.  You can play the entire collection in songs.  Or play individual albums in "albums".  Or go by Artist.

 

For next listening session, Clear Songs again and repeat.  For me, it takes a couple of minutes each evening to load up Amarra for the night.  Drag, import, zoom zoom.  

 

Amarra 4 sucks as a library manager.  It can't handle large libraries and the library management features are so limited. But as a player, with much fewer songs to digest, it works very well.  One gets the power of iTune's library management with the SQ of A4.

 

And to me, the sound is much superior to A+.  I did a comparison tonight, no contest.  Amarra 3 and Amarra HiFi where more comparable to A+.  Amarra 4 has left A+ well behind, IMHO.

 

Working with Amarra 4's limitations instead of expecting it to be what it simply cannot, will bring not only a peaceful state of mind, but a blissful listening experience as well.

 

Enjoy!

[DancingSea]

Once set up, it only takes a few minutes to execute.

 

But as I've mentioned earlier, HQP has an even worse library management system, and while A+ is better, its no iTunes.  I like the A+ iTunes integration mode, but having tasted the sweet Amarra 4 SQ waters, its hard to walk away from all that.  It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing....  after all, we've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on these audiophile setups, I can't justify A+ simply because its programmed better.  I'm after the SQ.

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, ddalmas said:

 but folks it is so hard and difficult to do an easy and adaptive library manager??!! The people of Sonic Studio maybe could reply yes ,but for the rest of the world the answer is NO!!i do not understand and i repeat they build a Ferrari with the motor of a little scooter!!!unbelievable.....

 

Given the library management offerings of all the 3rd party players, it apparently is very very difficult to create an iTunes level manager.  Only Roon seems to have accomplished it, at a $500 price tag.  We get iTunes and its deep pocket development budget for free because its a trojan horse store.

 

Thus your Ferrari/ scooter analogy is unfair.  The 3rd party players simply don't have the R&D budgets to do better than they are doing. 

 

One nice thing about A4 vs other incarnations, is that its been very stable.  The only weird thing is infrequently it will give a loud, brief static burst through my speakers when moving between tracks.

[DancingSea]

31 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

you can say what you want but did you looked to audirvana management??? simply perfect ! sane order of price than A4...it is not impossible isn't it?

 

In my opinion, the A+ internal library management system is better than A4, but not nearly as good as iTunes - and thus insufficient.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, bobbmd said:

I DELETED AND TRASHED EVERYTHING RELATED TO AMARRA.

A+3/ROON/Qobuz w/A+3 or alone as WEB player or desktop app/TIDAL desktop all sound better than Amarra ever did and are reasonably flawless/easier to use and navigate in lossless or MQA with my 3 DACS ME2/FULLA/Gungnir.

They/Amarra lost and I wasted my money.

 

That's the other issue, we all have different equipment, thus what sounds best is highly subjective....

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, minicoupeman said:

I found the answer. Deleted Amarra and brought a Melco! 

 

At $2000 for a Melco, I sincerely hope it sounds better than the $49 Amarra.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, foodfiend said:

I am not too sure how much iTunes library management has changed, but it was originally SoundJam MP, before being acquired by Apple. SoundJam MP wasn't backed by a company with limitless resources, so I would hazard a guess that 3rd party developers should be able to attain a similar level of library management without integrating a store (an easier integration).

 

If that were all true, then the 3rd party management systems would be much better than they are.  They aren't imbeciles, the know the library management is not where it should be, they keep trying with every new version to improve, but with only limited success.  Its hard for me to believe the 3rd party library management systems are so limited simply because the developers haven't bothered.

 

[DancingSea]

2 minutes ago, foodfiend said:

My suspicion is that it lies in patents and cross-licensing. Frankly, I haven't noticed if Apple has a significant IP portfolio on library management connected with what we are looking for. What I know that they hold is related to syncing the media between mobile device and computer, and on their store integration. Surely these are not needed for audiophile playback and organization of music libraries.

 

I did remember using another similar program to SoundJam MP during the early days. I wonder what happened to that software company though.

 

My feeling is that the library management deficiencies of 3rd party players is more to do with lack of acumen than patents.  Roon exploits this hole in the market to the tune of $500 for their library management system.

[DancingSea]

7 hours ago, foodfiend said:

I think we have to take one step back and understand the backgrounds of the respective developers, considering that most of these are small outfits (unlike Apple and iTunes). The likes of John Reichbach (Amarra), Tim Murison (BitPerfect), Rob Robinson (Pure Music) and Damien Plisson (Audirvana) have long approached software from the audio side of things, rather than that of library management.

 

The people behind Roon are the very ones behind the Sooloos, and approached system building more from the angle of integration and UI. Similar can be said about Foobar2000, SoundJam MP and even Music Match Jukebox.

 

So why have the likes of Amarra, Pure Music or Audirvana just employ someone with the coding expertise from the integration and UI side? I think that integration is not so easy, since the integration/UI side will want to link different bits and bobs together, whereas the music replay side will want as little of it as possible (to maintain a clean signal).

 

Not many consumers, they surmise, are willing to pay a premium for a good-sounding music player to have great UI and integration (media management, etc.) beyond what they can offer. As it is, the audiophile music player market is already pretty fragmented (although many players have become quiet - Stephen Booth's Decibel, Audiofile Engineering's Fidelia, to name two), and you can choose to go very high-end (and get just a few customers), or choose the mass-market route. Most have gone the mass-market, and even have "consumer" versions of their software to boost revenues.

 

Perhaps we are all crying out for better library management, but unless they know they are going to take away significant market share from their competitors, I think that it is unlikely that there will be a significant advance in that direction, unless one company takes the risk and causes the rest to follow suit. I still think that there is an alternative - crowd funding, anyone?

 

Exactly.  Well said.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, ddalmas said:

Ah,just to end the discussion  and to be more precise ,i'd like to point this :i am only asking to John Reichbach of Amarra Sonic Studio to do only a litlle effort to come towards the simple needs of his A4 users , and to implement even a simple files management with the possibility for the user to choose how.... and this is not so difficult i know and i firmly declare ! John Reichbach knew very well since the release of A4 that it is in difficult to mange great libraries! i wonder how he could release A4 with all that problems and pretend to be payed by stupid like me!! this is very annoying i say! if he knew he only had to keep A3 possibilities and the work was done! it takes how much more time to do it Mr John Reichbach!!?? we were entusihast user and now we aren't anymore! do you consider it so nice Mr John? So wake up and correct your program faults quickly

 

You basic premise if flawed.  You assume that creating these sophisticated library management systems is easy.  That's its just a matter of waking up and paying attention.  As Foodfiend perfectly explained, its all far more complicated than that - and not so simple to achieve.  It takes money to develop the systems, money these small time players either don't have, or choose to invest in a limited degree because of fear of not seeing a return due to stiff competition.

 

Apple has the bucks to do it all.  With all their cash, they could create the greatest audiophile player the world has ever known.  But they don't invest in that direction because they have concluded there's not enough potential for a return, instead focusing on the library management and iTunes store side of things.  They believe, perhaps correctly, that the masses don't really care about audiophile SQ.

 

I appreciate your frustration over A4's functionality.  I'm not pleased about it either.  But at $49 for an incredible sound engine, its a bargain.  And as Foodfiend explained, they are greater market forces at work that limit what these small time 3rd party outfits are able to produce.

 

Honestly, I prefer Sonic Studio not put a single nickel into developing their library management system.  Instead, just keep it like it is, but add a really good iTunes integration mode.  Be the HQPlayer to its Roon.

[DancingSea]

33 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

maybe i have no so well explained myself!! i meant only this 3 simple concepts

1 : if a little software developer as Audirvana has done such a fantastic management ( believe me it is really fantastic) it means that it can be surely done by another little as, you say it is , Amarra! This no one can contest it i think! ( in either cases that it could easy or difficult to be programmed,as that's a reality since  A+ and A4 are the same sized enterprises)

2 : i have payed that bill you say cheap, yes, but i have payed it for an upgrade as i already had an Amarra3 version payed , if i remember correctly, more than 150€ or about it!!! it means almost about 200!!this is another reality as a further  reality is that Amarra 3 worked better with managing files...so why do not keep the good sides of the old software and simply add other good  functions

3 : i firmly say again that I like the sound of A4 and I only need to be added a very simple task ,as already was in A3, so i do no think i am asking that heaven impossible to be reached.

John knew from the start that large libraries management is quite difficult so  why not giving a chance tho all those  who have large libraries, simply leaving what the already did in A3!!?this ii what i cannot understand .

Said this i ,who counts nothing in business show, am very happy to leave everyone, who wants, to  swim in the mire of all its albums mixed in a little spot on a screen!! good luck. 

Obviously this discussion is not intended for those who have about few tens of albums and only joke with listening music( for those ones i believe that even  a poor management could be greatly enough!), but it is intended for serious listeners who have important and beloved amount of music stored on their Hard Disks

ciao a tutti

 

You have explained yourself well.  Its just we disagree with your conclusions.  You say its simple to make changes with no direct personal experience to support that conclusion.  That you like A+ better is very far from revealing anything about the ins and outs of software development.  That's a large leap in logic.

 

I own A+.  For me, its library management system is equally annoying - I would in no way term it "fantastic".   

 

These are small time companies with limited resources.  Of course, its your right to complain - and Sonic Studios certainly deserves & can benefit from it - just maintain a bit of perspective.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, ddalmas said:

That they do a widows version it is correct in commercial terms but i highly agree with the fact that before of all serious developers certainly make all their best to do a good stable and easy to use software!! this didn't happened with Sonic Studio developers !!!!! Anyone  who still wants to defense them cannot contest this!!! this the reason to be angry with them!! i hope this forum will arrive to their ears,i obviously mean Sonic Studio developers.

if i 'd be  the owner of a software enterprise i 'd be more careful to user's satisfaction!!! but ...with clear evidence not everyone thinks in the same way in the world

 

You will be pleased to know that Sonic Studios does monitor these forums and are likely keeping track of this thread.  Its equally unlikely they are going to significantly revamp their library system any time soon, or at all, based upon your reasonable displeasure.  They are busy getting Luxe together, for better or worse.

 

You expressed concern over your psychological well being in relations to use of A4.  As the saying goes, peace comes from within.  Amarra has a very long track record of bugs, complaints, and dissatisfaction - if not outrage - by people on this forum.  Do a forum search, you'll find piles of complaints across many years.  As a beta tester, I've sent my own list of complaints as well.

 

Amarra 4, while not perfect, is more stable than other version.  The peace comes in accepting Amarra 4 for what it is, and Sonic Studios for how it is.  I've made the transition from upset customer to "ok, that's just how its going to be."  By doing so, my enjoyment of A4 has greatly increased as I've let go of expecting the library management to be anything other than what it is, and instead focusing on the remarkable sound quality and welcome stability vs previous incarnations.

 

Giving Sonic Studios control over your psychological well being can only lead to a self created misery.