New Amarra 4

[DancingSea]

8 minutes ago, Lio_B said:

I have just installed Fidela trial, add my PSP PreQursor2 plugin (but difficult to hear a difference with or without the plugin)

Compared with A4L, Fidela is the software which is closest to A4 about SQ. (in blind test)

Very interesting, but my SQ preference go to A4.

Perhaps it could sound better with licence because of the advanced setting and izotope settings.

Regards

 

Best I can figure, its not possible to buy the advanced license anymore.  I have the paid version, and there's no place in the app to upgrade.   Back when I first bought Fidelia, one could upgrade on the Fidelia website.....

[DancingSea]

7 hours ago, ddalmas said:

hi to everybody...i am here after deep listening sessions of the 3 players to test(A4  A+ and Fidelia) well these are my impressions that i want to share with you:

A4 sound good by itself and it is the  compare starting point(But it has all the scandalous problems that everyone of us well knows!)

A+ is very nicely sounding, but it surely needs an helping hand to complete the sound quality, maybe only a good good saturator as you suggested (personally i use the Nick Crowl lab Tube saturator that i find nicely sounding and very complete in all its functions)...this way all the frequencies are well represented,maybe a little lack on the vocal range that is better represented in A4,on the contrary A+ seems to be more analytic on highs and scene representing .But its library management is simply extraordinary!!! A+ sees any change you do in the library folder in REALTIME so you do not have too worry about if your album is inserted in your album list...you don' have the time to go to A+ screen after having added an album to your folder that the album is already visible in the library....ain't GREAT?For me library manager is the point of force the decision to choose A+ as preferred player!and it sound quite good.

Fidelia i found  the best in sound quality added to facilities possibility of use.It is very essential to use a few commands and that's all...souds great and with add of the tube sat  it sounds maybe better than A4, i think, but without the scandalous faults and enormous lacks of A4 itself! on contrary Library management is quite not sufficient in our times and it has  ,with clear evidence, been left in the old times  when fidelia was born( i have just made an enquiry to Fidelia staff about their intention to upgrade to more recent needs ,and ,if ever i will have a response, i will let you know)anyway Fidelia  ,obviously only with a new and good library manager, will be elected to my preferred player as SQ/Friendly Use.(let's remember that listening to music is LISTEN and CONCENTRATE on MUSIC and not TECHNOLOGY)For now, waiting changes from A4 and Fidelia, my preferred and everyday use remains A+ with its fantastic realtime library updating system, the only one amongst all the players i have tested(from the basic iTunes, VLC,eccc.... to the more sophisticated  ones A4 F PM )

ciao ciao .....and...please  let me know your impressions and suggestions

 

 

Thanks for the observations.  I agree, A+ is very functional.  I use it in iTunes integration mode and it works very well.  Despite trying every setting known to man, as well as all of our plugin explorations, I have a difficult time with how A+ handles the highs.  To my limited audiophile vocabulary, the highs sound too jagged and compressed together.  I like smooth and rounded highs, but not muddy.

 

I like Fidelia very much, and with the search function, I can easily select a CD from my iTunes library.  Yes, its an outdated system, but it works ok - and sounds even better with the Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2.  

 

As a side note, way back when copy_of_a gave us his plugin/ A+ settings recipe, he listed the use of a dither plugin.  In the output section of the Fidelia preferences, there is a dither setting.  I find adjusting the dither smoothes out the sound quite nicely.

 

I do still use A4 as a player in which I load in a limited number of CD's at a time - which avoids most of its library madness.  I'm currently using it for my DSD files.  Even though the DoP update is not in place, the DSD converted to PCM sounds really really good - better than high bit rate FLAC or ALAC of the same recording. Fidelia doesn't handle DSD.

 

Another thing I appreciate about Fidelia that A4L sorely lacks, is I can create a playlist in iTunes and with no fuss, can easily play the playlist in Fidelia.  The A4L playlists are completely useable....

[DancingSea]

My sound ratings go like this:

 

1) A4L playing DSD

 

2) Fidelia with Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2

 

3) A4L playing anything other than DSD

 

4) Fidelia by itself

 

5) A+ with Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2 in iTunes integration mode, which I prefer to A+ in stand alone mode.

 

 

Functionality ratings:

 

1) A+ in any form

 

2) Fidelia

 

10) A4L

 

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, Lio_B said:

I have just installed Fidela trial, 

 

Where did you get the trial?  Does the App Store offer a trial?

[DancingSea]

Have even found a place for iTunes/Bitperfect which are more forgiving of less than pristine recordings...

[DancingSea]

4 hours ago, quark said:

Thanks ddalmas I will  try that ?

 Although I know this horrible perfectionist driven insecurity I have, which in every day life can be so tiring :-), will always force me back to  even the tiniest "perceived" improved sound quality and I always feel IRC adds much more clarity. Already bought their IRC function when it first came out several years ago.

 Like you I prefer to keep it on my Mac and probably silly hope they fix the many basic functions everyone's paid for that don't work. But even writing that sentence I feel only reinforces their position.

 Anyway,  i'll give Fidella A try, thank you very much for the recommendation :-) 

 

 It's good to see that they refunded you though NickDun?

 

Quark - Fidelia combined with the Wave Arts Saturator 2 (or even the free version) does sound very good.  It quickly scans your entire iTunes library, and includes all your iTunes playlists.  You can create playlists in iTunes, rescan, and they quickly appear in Fidelia.  The library management window is very old school, but you can sort by artist, album, etc and search.  The Fidelia remote works fairly well.   Try as I may, A+ remains too aggressive for my tastes.

 

Fidelia is prone to crashes.  Happens nearly every listening session.  And sometimes it inexplicably repeats a song.

 

As for Amarra 4 Luxe, believe it or not, SS is working on it.  Since the last public release, there have been many beta releases for testing.  They are trying.  With all due respect to their efforts, they've taken on a project that is beyond their programming ability to create.  They desperately need an iTunes integration mode, like in previous releases.

 

My self created "player only" mode continues to work much better than the A4L entire library mode.  I drag a few CD's into A4L via a folder on my desktop.

 

But lately, have been primarily using Fidelia, crashes and all.

 

Quark, perhaps Amarra SQ with iTunes is a better route for you?  That keeps you entirely in iTunes.

[DancingSea]

9 hours ago, ThunderMac said:

I said that I would give chance to Ammara, despite all the criticisms regarding to its library functioning, so I bought Amarra Luxe and SQ+. Everything OK regarding to sound, but: 

• is there something/anything to do that Amarra will show correct order of songs. I gave up with “one compilation” showed as a “ten separate artists with one song”, but incorrect song order when I listen “one artist” album, this is really irritating. This is happening in about 10-20% of all albums. Erasing albums from amarra, updating library, re-tagging etc. won't work.

   

   

• (I also have problems with ammara remote (not showing album artwork etc.) but probably this is also a known fact?)

 

regards

 

These are normal bugs.  Expect them to persist.  There's no reason to get your hopes up for a fix.

[DancingSea]

I have come to the conclusion that the only way to get the rich, analog like sound I want is to buy one of these.

 

Relying upon software to emulate the sound is never going to satisfy.  The tube preamp is going to do a much better job - I theorize - of adding warmth, richness, and depth to my solid state rig than any of these 3rd party software options ever will.

[DancingSea]

17 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

excuse my intromission dancing ....but your suggestion is not so correct......In a stereo chain before all you physically have a source (Mac/PC in this case) with its digital or (but it is better to avoid it ) its analog output....THEN from any source you have you will go to a Dac or directly to a  preamp/integrated amp! so it is a very good idea to have  good analog feel preamp ,but believe me if you send to him bad sounds from a source it would only render out bad sounds!..... we are here to define only the Mac as SOURCE  only ,that it is what is getting out from Mac as source .Therefore we are here to define what is the better Mac sounding player!! The rest of the chain depends from  your tastes and your money power .....so My(in fact an Audio research reference 2MKII)or Your preamp will give you back exactly the sound who are addicted to give , without changing the differences existing between the sources of your hifi chain ...the best your Mac sounds the best your stereo sounds...the second step can only obey to the Mac /Source's Sound quality

ciaociao

 

I see it as a multifaceted approach that includes  both hardware and software. 

 

Clearly hardware has a huge influence on sound quality. Otherwise, there would be no audiophile industry ?

 

Anarra through a $100K system will sound different than through a $500 system. Unless things work different in Italy ?? 

[DancingSea]

26 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

yes of course .....such it does A+ or Fidelia or iTunes, but the basic differences stay exactly in the proportions they have ...so we are not here ,i think, to start a discussion on HiEnd gears ,i mean!!!Yes some hifi gear reveals mostly the differences between the source, but that's all a preamp could do!too long and not worth here to be discussed how iTunes plays a song  with "no matter what" gear.....it will always remain under the SQ of Fidelia ....and so on but with the due exceptions (IE : playing songs on  PC loudspeakers system maybe iTunes is preferable to all the other sophisticated players as it better fills the lacks of the little cheap speakers!maybe iTunes itself was originally designed to da this)

Ahhhhh  .... Eistein's relativity theory...all is relative!!!!  .Anyway we are still  talking about with what player Mac plays the best

ciaociao

 

Its all connected!  And from I can tell, we are here to talk about whatever aspect of this topic we please.

 

My observation was to observe the limitations of all of these players and realize its too much to ask them to cure the entire SQ issue with our greater systems.

 

Amarra and Fidelia offer a more tube like, analog sound.  Given their great limitations, its worth thinking about other ways to achieve that sort of sound - in conjunction with the players.

 

Have no fear ddalmas, you're in good hands!  Trust the force.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, quark said:

 Has anyone received an update yet, it’s been quite a while ☹️

 

There have been many beta test updates, lately, a couple per week. 

 

So they are working on it. 

[DancingSea]

37 minutes ago, Munchoba said:

I give up.

Haven<t used Amarra 4 Luxe in a while, using Roon almost all of the time now. 

Feeling nostalgic and wanting to hear some Hip, I say: Let's  crank up the old Amarra... 3 hours later, still scanning my relatively small library (yes, playing through Chrome) I see the Hip album I want. Starts playing nd a minute later... Crashes and closes.

 

I've given over $1000 to these clowns in all of their iterations (Symphony, SQ+,Amarra Tidal...IRC you name it).

I can't stand it any more.

Too bad... was a wonderful sound.

 

I feel gypped.

 

Bernard

 

Sorry to hear that. Must be very frustrating. 

 

I use A4L every day as a player only, not for library management. It works very well. Seldom crashes. Sounds great. 

 

I do do get a periodic pop when changing tracks. Though the last beta update seems to have made it better.  Same issues with multi set cds Being combined into one. 

 

I highly recommend only loading 20 cds or so at a time and using it as a player.  I gave up long ago on the A4L large  library abilities. 

 

It it also helps to make sure your artist and album artist tags match. 

[DancingSea]

9 hours ago, Munchoba said:

Might just try this after I calm down.

Thanks for the tip.

Pretty bad though if it's come to this.

 

Bernard

 

I’ve gotten used to it. I use iTunes for library management, something it does better than any of these 3rd party apps. 

 

I renember the days of cd’s. Going through the drawer, loading the player, etc. A4L is much more convenient than that.  And sounds amazing. 

 

As I've written throughout this thread, I made peace by accepting what A4L is, and isn’t.  Now I’m relatively at peace and it remains my primary player - of which I own many. 

[DancingSea]

4 hours ago, Munchoba said:

 

  How do we use iTunes as a library manager and still use Amarra? Kind of liking that option.

thanks

 

 

Don't get too excited, its not nearly the same as a genuine iTunes integration mode.

 

Before each listening session, I go through my iTunes library and drag 5 - 10 CDs, sometimes a few more, into a folder on my desktop titled "Amarra Selections".

 

I launch Amarra 4, I prefer browser mode, but it doesn't matter which mode.  Clear all songs out of A4L.  Then use "Add To Library" to load the CD's from the "Amarra Selections" folder.  The loading takes like 30 seconds.

 

A4L handles these small batches quite well.  I listen daily with few issues.  The whole dragging and loading process adds a couple of minutes to the process at most.

 

And in that light, I get the benefits of the iTunes library with the sweet A4L sound.

 

Yes, A4L ought not be this way, yada yada yada.  But A4L is this way.  Either adapt to its idiosyncrasies, or move on to something else.  Otherwise, you'll drive yourself crazy.

 

All that said, A4L remains my player of choice.

 

 

[DancingSea]

13 hours ago, quark said:

Also, sorry DancingSea, i was having a bad day yesterday, please forgive my rant :-)

 

Nothing to forgive, rant away!!! 

[DancingSea]

Yes, when used as designed, A4L is a troubled affair.  I think of A4L as a virtual multi-disc CD player.  Load in a few CD's, have a nice listening session, clear all songs, repeat.

 

With the most recent beta versions, I experience few bugs in this baby food approach.

 

I've tried Fidelia, even bought the Wave Arts Tube Saturator which works with A+ as well.  They sound good.  But for me, A4L in browser mode (Chrome) is better sounding for sure.

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, Dov said:

It seems to me that if Amarra A4L had a simple player like VOX (able to read an iTunes library, without creating a new complex database) and  keep its sound quality, it would be a winner for all of us on this forum. But...

 

I agree completely. Fidelia very simply accesses the existing iTunes library. Doesn’t even have to really load. My 45K tracks are available right away. 

 

Sonic Studios should at least give us the option to choose between the iTunes database or their proprietary madness. 

[DancingSea]

10 minutes ago, Amarra_Support said:

 

- Regarding the meters, we are going to stick with the colored meters for 2 reasons - they provide more information to set the correct output volume (you don't want the meters in the red) and they are more in line with our other products like the EQ in Amarra sQ+.  That said, I can pass along the request and we can review for potential integration in the future.

 

best

Ralph

 

Aloha Ralph,

 

Can you please address the notion of A4  iTunes integration ala A3?  This topic comes up here more than any other. 

 

Also, when will DSD over DoP work?

 

Thanks.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, Amarra_Support said:

Oversight on our part as we were having issues with the IRC.  If you are already licensed, the window comes up.  We are fixing this for the next build.  In the meantime, you can use either Amarra Symphony or Amarra sQ+ to license IRC and then you will see the iRC window show up in A4Luxe.   Please write to me at [email protected] if you need more details.

 

 

 

Thoughts on iTunes integration like A3?  Is that not going to happen with A4L?

[DancingSea]

25 minutes ago, twist222 said:

In earlier versions of Amarra wasn't there a large number of people demanding Amarra get rid of the connection to iTunes. This in fact lead to the playlist function so that people could enjoy Amarra playback without the need to have iTunes running. No that Amarra has done what large numbers of people asked for and came up with a solution that does not require iTunes we get the other end of the spectrum asking for iTunes intergration !!!!

 

Regards

Mark

In the interests of full disclosure I was an early Amarra adoptee and have continued through to AS3 with IRC however I have not upgraded to Version 4 yet as I thought I would wait until Tidal intergration and up sampling was available. Now I might need to wait a bit longer until the issue with IRC is resolved. 

 

It’s nice to have a choice. A3 allowed the option to integrate with iTunes. Audirvana has the same option. 

 

Its makes little sense to eliminate iTunes integration mode in A4. 

[DancingSea]

25 minutes ago, twist222 said:

Would iTunes intergration also preclude the use of many of the new features of A4 ? DSD playback,Tidal playback, upsampling, support for flac files. 

 

Regards

Mark

 

Audirvana & A3 allow one to toggle between iTunes and stand alone mode. 

 

In A4L, nothing would be lost as one could pick. 

 

DSD via DoP still doesn’t work in A4L wish it would come soon. 

[DancingSea]

And please enable DSD via DoP soon!

[DancingSea]

I personally don’t give a hoot about MQA and it’s questionable motives. Bring on native DSD capability soon!

[DancingSea]

6 hours ago, left channel said:

 

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who can hear a difference between DoP and Native DSD, using other software of course. My DAC does only DoP.

 

I can do native DSD via the I2S connection on my DAC.  But DoP is supposed to be same same for quality...  the main point is to differentiate between DSD converted to PCM - which is what A4L does now - and the DoP signal which delivers the unconverted DSD signal to the DAC.... that's where the magic starts...

 

With all things Amarra, it can be challenging to understand their way of going about things.  The DoP check box has been there since the beginning of A4L, yet has remained dormant.  Why not get the product functioning and then release it???

 

But alas, this is a well trodden topic....

[DancingSea]

49 minutes ago, bommai said:

Just upgraded my Amarra 4 license to Amarra 4 Luxe hoping to play my DSF files.  I tried Wish you were here and it was just crackling all over the place.  Audirvana 3 plays this beautifully.  Does Amarra 4 not play multi channel DSF files?  I submitted a support ticket on the 19th and have not heard back.

 

For me, it plays DSD but converts to PCM first. Ugh!