Amarra: Uses a Rootkit for Copy Protection

[roccoriley]

I don't think that this reply comes as a surprise to anyone. ILok is not about to acknowledge that they use a "Rootkit" which is a word with negative connotations, the same word that cost Sony lots of money and caused problems with thousands of computers.

 

Now ask iLok if their systems install any hidden files. Ask if any undocumented files are added at OS level. Ask what has caused the many Internet posts by iLok users who have said that their systems malfunctioned and their hard drives had to be reformatted to correct the problems.

 

It doesn't matter if the term "Rootkit" is used or not, the principle remains the same. When undocumented or hidden files are installed which do not utilize the operating system you can expect unrecoverable problems such as those recounted by many iLok users.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Now ask iLok if their systems install any hidden files. Ask if any undocumented files are added at OS level. Ask what has caused the many Internet posts by iLok users who have said that their systems malfunctioned and their hard drives had to be reformatted to correct the problems.

 

Then ask all the other major software vendors the same question and the answer is likely to be the same.

 

Let's consider the numbers here. A couple Internet posts from people having to reformat their drives. I wonder how many haven't had this issue. Also, I know far more people who've reformated from Microsoft Office products, even iTunes.

 

Rocco I have to ask what your background is? A few people have emailed me suggesting you have a hidden agenda.

 

[sonic studio]

While Sonic Studio can not speak for PACE we can say that in our experience we have not once had a single disc failure or system related issue when using an iLok on a Macintosh platform, nor has a iLok been hacked on a Macintosh.

 

Please know that any time you install software and enter your user id you are installing software that can have Root access. This would include any driver and many applications as well as other system extensions. To call them all malware is not strictly correct. Is the driver for your audio interface malware? It has basically the same access to system resources as the Pace software.

 

That said, Sonic Studio does support a challenge / response for some of our products and we are going to investigate its use for Amarra as well.

 

 

 

[roccoriley]

I am retired, not connected with any company, anywhere. For some years I was a Principal in a software development company in the financial areas; our products ran from around $60k to seven figures; I have some understanding of this area although I am not a technical person.

 

I have been a PC user since the early days of IBM PC's using DOS and I have seen and experienced many PC's screwed up by botched protection methods. Three days ago I had never heard of Amarra but it came to my attention as I investigated improving my MAC to audio interface and sound quality via this forum. When I saw that Amarra was using iLok I was surprised because I felt that a dongle based system with intrusive software was inappropriate for a consumer oriented audio player and I was disappointed because, although I would be interested in any method of improving my system, I would not want to install anything with this kind of checkered history.

 

Nope! No agenda at all other than a personal view that any kind of software that installs undocumented stuff at the system level should be avoided, and that I would rather drink bleach than use a dongle. Lots of companies use other methods of software control that work and are not intrusive, look at Adobe, for example, a crackable system that provides an additional level of security via their system of software updates, then there's another system I use for placing bids on eBay that calls in to the Internet for validation each time it is initialized. With many other ways to secure software I hope that Amarra will reevaluate their choice and consider something without the pesky iLok dongle. For most of us if a program is worth its price we would rather pay for it and get the updates and support, than steal it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thanks for the response Rocco. Now I have an idea where you are coming from. It's very hard to tell if people are just trolling the sites looking to stir things up or if they have some other agenda etc...

 

Although we may have butted heads in this thread, I'm sure we have many more things in common than not. That usually turns out to be the case with these things :~)

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

Well said, AZ.

 

I appreciate what you say about drawing the line on DRM music.

 

In retrospect, I can more easily see (hindsight is 20/10 if you're paying attention, I always say ) that the ease with which I jumped on the 'rootkit' paranoia has to do with the fact that Amarra is on the other side of my line with respect to dongles. IOW, I was quick to show frustration due to having to use a dongle for Amarra.

 

That said, I don't believe for a second that the iLOK software is as benign as typical software drivers that they are being compared to. IOW, I don't believe that all of the iLOK horror stories are manufactured by those who are frustrated by dongles. Where there's smoke there's fire.

 

I will continue to look for a non-dongle solution. The good news about the dongle is that I can more easily sell my Amarra license when I find something more suiting of my desires.

 

cheers,

clay

 

 

 

 

[poop]

nor has a iLok been hacked on a Macintosh.

 

Yes, it has. So has Amarra. I'm sure Sonic Studios has spent some very serious money implementing their copy protection and been sold some very impressive marketing babble by the company they bought it from to convince them it's solid. The truth is that iLok is not difficult to bypass. It has been bypassed for about 50 applications, including Pro Tools. Copy protection is a farce, the very nature of it means it can be cracked/hacked/bypassed/removed. In this case it also opens up users to other vulnerabilities. I'm not posting anything new here... a quick google search makes it pretty obvious that iLok is just as open to being bypassed as any other form of copy protection.

 

To call them all malware is not strictly correct.

 

I don't think anyone has tried to suggest otherwise, but Rootkit and an audio driver are very different things. I'm stunned that the 'official comment' at this point from Sonic Studio would try to convince us that they have basically the same access to system resources. For those like myself who understand the potential vulnerabilities here, the comment sounds ignorant, which would go a long way to explaining its presence in an apparently reputable companies' software.

 

[audiozorro]

Audio consumers are not the only ones being screwed. The news is not that good on the video side either.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/02/AR2009100201562.html?hpid=news-col-blog