ECdesigns

[murphythecat87]

21 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Good point. I immediately asked about this when I saw the design of the PowerDAC R. The answer was that they want to keep the design simple and the cost down. I agree, it is not practical.

 

Personally, it is not a big deal as I do headphone listening in my office, and listen to my speakers in my living room.

 

I suggest you write to them about this. 

 

This gets back to the point I was making about ECD's current "business model" - which is basically John Brown designing and producing himself these products. We are gratified with awesome sound quality, at reasonable cost, but there are obvious limitations to this approach.  

 

I guess for many it will be a choice of form and functionality vs sound quality and cost. Perhaps they will ultimately offer their cards to OEMs and this will give customers more choice of design and features.

I doubt he'll listen

but right? makes no sense to have a the powerdac headphone and not simply get a headphone in and outputs for speaker amps. makes no sense

[murphythecat87]

6 hours ago, realDHT said:

I am thinking if you are selling a commercial product having a headphone jack, it must work well with all, or at least most of the headphones on the market. Even if you inform on the webpage it will only work for some phones, it might give you badwill and confusion amongst customers when they connect their unsuitable headphones..

I dont agree

personally, I let my headphone connected at all time to my headphone amp. its not like I will unplug my headphone 10 times a day. headphone jack are extremely sturdy. never actually heard of one failing in high end gear. and if it eventually fail, chaging the jack is stupid easy for anyone.

 

now using a rca to headphone adapter goes against what ECD are praising (getting away from any interconnects...)

 

The fact the Powerdac headphone only offer one set of outputs and no headphone jack is a bad joke to me. Focal Arche is a perfect example on how a DAC-headphone amp all in one should look like

[murphythecat87]

21 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I know this passage, tbh it appears to me not as a mature solution (but the proof is in the listening).

 

Matt

have you ever heard a ECD product?

once you do listen to one of his design, at the bare minimum you will understand that they are legit in term of SQ

[murphythecat87]

16 hours ago, Norton said:

I’d seek the Browns’ advice before buying optical cables.

 

Back in the “prehistoric” days of the MOS16, I upgraded to an expensive  glass cable only to introduce all too audible jitter, ruining the ECD sound .  I asked ECD about this and was told their own test results confirmed what I was hearing, best to stick with plastic cables, something to do with the likelihood, in a cut and terminated cable, of all glass  filaments still being identical in length.

really?

tbh, I have the glass spdif cable with the MOS16 and the Mosaic T. I compared it to many regular spdif cables... I find it extremely hard to hear any differences in sq.

[murphythecat87]

On 12/30/2015 at 10:50 AM, mordante said:

 

Nice review. I wonder if EC design will be successful. The market seems to flooded with good DACs these days. With no USB input I'm not sure how they will manage to sell any DAC.

im not worried. John brown have been selling to dedicated loyal audiophile that recgnize is immense effort to bring the best possible SQ for the money. Ive been buying his stuff since 2014 and since then he only seem to get bigger and bigger (relatively of course).

[murphythecat87]

On 12/5/2021 at 10:37 AM, hopkins said:

Just read the R&D section of ECD's updated website:

 

"For many years we have been researching, improving and selling our discrete DACs and related products. This has resulted in new products nearly every year. We improved R2R with R4R (Mosaic series), created clean source (UPL/U192 and ElectroTos), Improved R4R with Fractal-7 converter (DA96), managed to minimise source noise/jitter for standard Toslink using DAPI receiver and further improved DAC with Fractal-31 converter. Most of these improvements are now implemented in our PowerDAC series DACs. Because there is nothing left to improve, we will now focus on production and sales.

 

👍

Ive been buying John Brown products since 2015. In 2015, he said the same exact quote.

wouldnt put too much faith here, he will upgrade that dac. soon

[murphythecat87]

cant help but think you guys trying to capture anything ressembling how the speaker sound on a video camera make you lose "some" credibility. I know its just for fun and what if's, but still...

 

no measurements of the speakers but a video recording!

 

I see AN-K in the background, any way to compare them to the EC OB? since I know how the AN sound....

 

 

[murphythecat87]

1 minute ago, hopkins said:

 

A measurement of the open baffle is on my agenda (frequency response curve).

 

Do you want  a recording to compare? 

 

 

 

first, nice build! so cool that john simply gave away the plans. Im building a big 3 way speaker right now but im kinda interested in your opinion on the AN-k vs the OB.

 

enough bass with just 4x8 inch drivers?

hows the treble?

 

no need for a particular track, just in general with jazz and electronica, how both speakers differ, ect

 

cheers!

[murphythecat87]

4 minutes ago, hopkins said:

@murphythecat87 you asked me about the difference between the Open Baffle and the Audio Note speakers. The two are very different. The Audio Note are very nice speakers, but the open baffle are simply in another league - their sound is bigger, there is much more clarity, refinement, and you are brought one step closer to having the illusion of a real performance. 

 

 

im not surprised at all. John brown have designed many speakers over the years, im sure these are good in all areas and excellent in many as well. just a bummer how expensive the drivers are, otherwise id be building a pair right away. ill wait a big sale for drivers.

 

Id really like a 1 meter FR measurements!!! thx!

 

Edit: a array of wideband drivers are a well known success. Im actually 100% certain that ill build a pair eventually as I think OB wideband array is one of those unique kinda sound...

[murphythecat87]

just saw that Jihn also offer the array but using a much cheaper Visaton wide band. might be interesting. but i know myself, ill end up with two so ill save up and build these with the best drivers available

[murphythecat87]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

I actually had a few of those Visaton baffles from a previous project and hesitated as well, given the large price differential,but thought I would always regret not having tried the Tang Band. I'll also admit I was hesitant because I was not entirely convinced by John's previous open baffle design. So it was a difficult decision, but I took the plunge and really could not be happier that I did. 

lol, ive looked at the project and its too tempting. ill wait for some deals and order 8 Visaton driver to build the cheaper build!

 

I just need to finish my big 3 way first!

[murphythecat87]

On 4/2/2022 at 4:47 PM, hopkins said:

 

Same but with 1/6 instead of 1/3 smoothing. I am pretty sure the drop around 10K is due to the room. I'll try to take another measurement in my living room.

 

Here's the RT60 (T30) in that small room, which is in fact not all that bad (I think)

 

 

 

I hoped that the line array would help for even bass response but this is even better then i would have ever guessed. and the treble is even steven.

 

the response between 100hz to 200hz is also very impressive.

 

1 month in, how do you like the speakers? end game?

[murphythecat87]

18 minutes ago, hopkins said:

P.S. contrary to the first graph I posted yesterday, this is a measurement of both speakers. The first graph was a single speaker, so it is normal that the frequency response is flatter. With the microphone centered between the two speakers you get a gently downward sloping curve. I could try another measurement with the speakers toed-in, but I assume we'll get something in between the two graphs.

measurements looks excellent tbh. enjoy!!!

 

even a sub seem no necessary ( not surprising as you have 4 8" on each side which equals to about a 13" woofer?

[murphythecat87]

once my speakers are done, ill post it here. Im sure it will make you feel better about the size of your speakers Hopkins :)

 

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

 

It is a very satisfying system, great for listening to all types of music and recordings, doubling as a headphone amp. 

 

Also, it is relatively cheap when compared to what high end hi-fi systems usually command, especially when considering that you don't need more than a basic PC to get great sound. 

 

For people who do not have the space for these large open baffles, it would be great to have some other speaker recommendations. 

 

In the coming weeks I will have some people over to audition the system. 

enjoy!

theres very few piece of equipment i really wants, and the powerdac is def one of the most unique audio product ive ever seen built by a mad genius:)

 

Im building a huge 3 way, 95db efficient, 1st order serie crossover.

classic layout: 15" woofer, 6.5" paper mid and planar up top. Crossover is designed by me and Thorsten Loesch so it should be at least decent!

 

I think 95db could work with your 4 WPC. but yeah, those 4 watts are very limiting. id either go the wideband + subwoofer connect via hi-pass connection, FAST systems or classic hi-eff 3 way

[murphythecat87]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

Concerning the open baffles, they really require careful placement to optimize the sound. 

 

My living room is long, but the ceiling is not very high (2.5 meters, standard for new constructions). I felt like I was experiencing too much reverberations, and it was muddiyng the sound (when not listening very close to the speakers). 

 

I had the idea, of testing acoustic panels on the ceiling.

 

 

The sound quality improvement is significant. Everything is more defined. Now, my main problem is to stop listening and not remain glued to my chair all the time :)

 

I have decided to invest in proper ceiling panels to cover my listening area in the living room (roughly 1/3 of the ceiling). 

 

The open baffle speakers are définitely hear to stay!

good for you. My cloud was one of the biggest improvment in my system!

[murphythecat87]

I really hope john brown soon comes out with seperate monoblocks power amps like he used to.

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

Here is a new version of the open baffles:

 

 

The wiring in the back is temporary, but it sounds great as is:

 

 

I added wheels that are made for upright pianos: https://www.thomann.de/gb/jahn_transportrollbock_fuer_klavier.htm

 

These work really well (game changer for me), and I can easily move the baffles around, and keep them in storage in another room. The baffles sit only a couple centimeters from the floor. Adding a board at the bottom has improved the rigidity of the baffles.

 

The size of the front baffles is slightly smaller than in ECD's original specifications (5cm less height, 10cm less width). 

 

The inside wing is 30cm deep, and I plan on adding an extra foldeable wing of 15cm. The outside wing is 15cm deep.

 

The front baffle is reclining slightly to the back, as both wings are 5cm shorter on top than on the bottom. This reclining position has improved the sound, I believe, when listening near field in a sitting position.

 

The complete system: LMS on a  Windows desktop PC (nothing optimized for audio) > Network > RaspberryPi 3 with Ropieee XL > ECD UT192 USB to Toslink (ElectroTos cable) > PowerDAC-S. 

 

This is as basic as it gets, there are no fancy cables (aside for Silvesmith Audio speaker cables, which are extended with DIY copper foil, as seen in the picture), no audiophile power supplies, no network/USB "decrappifiers", and the sound is simply the most natural I have heard.

 

I do not know if anyone else has purchased the powerDAC-S and build these speakers.

 

I hope some day ECD gets the recognition they deserve. 

I dout many are willing to take a chance on his 4k euro power dac.

even me, as a fan of John Brown for over 12 years, Ive decided to pass on his power dac: simply not enough power for most speakers.

 

I personally hope he release a more standard 20-25WPC amp, just like he used to.

[murphythecat87]

14 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I understand that some components in the powerDAC cannot handle higher voltages, so the current design cannot be made to provide more power. Is ECD even interested in working on other products at this point? You would have to ask them. 

 

I really don't think price is an issue, but there definitely need to be more reviews available. This is a "niche" product - a bit anachronistic in some ways. It is not going to appeal to all, that is obvious. But the world of audiophiles is large, and in some ways AS is only representative of a particular segment.

 

But perhaps ultimately some ideas can be incorporated by other designers, and some aspects can even be improved upon ? For this, they would need a little more exposure than my own efforts here - though I am obviously not aware of their own discussions with potential customers.

 

I only know that some audiophiles (who have reached out to me) are really curious about the whole concept, and wish they had the opportunity to listen to it. 

4 WPC

this is the SET world. already for the purist.

nobody will buy his powerdac. I think John is a brilliant engineer with terrible marketing skills at this point

 

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, jwr159 said:

I recently replaced the stock PS for my EC Power DAC R with the Topping P50 LPS. It made a significant difference, more so than I expected. The music has less grain, is smoother, and more dimensional. Well worth the $100+ cost. 

 

https://apos.audio/products/topping-p50-linear-power-supply 

isnt the stock psu also a linear psu?

im tempted to try for my Mosaic T dac, but im really not one to trust any Topping

[murphythecat87]

3 hours ago, Norton said:

I see ECD now have a PowerDAC “B” -

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/shop/powerdac-b

 

I guess this is basically an “R” without onboard volume and in a more conventional form factor?

indeed

the R gives you a end game volume control. nice to have both options now.

im using the U192 along the old old old Mosaic T. 

wonder how much im missing 

[murphythecat87]

2 hours ago, Perri said:

So I threw in some Sanyo Oscon SEPC and an Elna Starget in my U192ETL and it improved the sound considerably in regards to the Power DAC R so it seems the internal reclocker and the Toslink connection is not the solve all solution as John suggests . Well at least in my opinion as there is clearly considerable improvements to be had by better quality filtering capacitors . IanCanadas FifoPi seems of interest after this even though I still think he is over charging for his product . Would be interesting if the reclocker within the Power DAC could be improved upon as it seems John builds to a price and this also makes me wonder if he uses shunt regulated power supplies which are from my knowledge the bees knees of PSU design for a DAC .

 the fact that John Brown does NOT use Elna silmic 2 strike me as very odd

[murphythecat87]

schiit Yggy or EC design dac-r

 

where are the reviews for the power dac R?

 

 

[murphythecat87]

8 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Or Aqua La Voce S3.  I’ve heard them all (EC design was the earlier 192) and Aqua is my keeper.

why do you use the Chord Qutest?

you prefer the Chord Qutest over all the others?

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, Gavin1977 said:

Yeah, I tried U192/DA96, not the new PowerDAC.  Qutest was my reference for a long time, and with the U192/DA96  I found the lack of output buffer to be an issue, but it had lots of very positive traits and was exceptionally detailed.

 

I responded to the comment because Yggy was mentioned.  A very fine DAC, but I found the Aqua La Voce to be superior (better PRaT and more open sound) compared to the Yggy LiM (I also had the older Analogue 2).  So I'm trying to encourage you not to bother with the earlier U192/DA96, or the Qutest, and go straight to either the PowerDAC or Aqua DAC.  I have not heard the PowerDAC, so cannot comment on it.

 

That said U192/DA96, or the Qutest with a tube based system might work very well to remove the digital edge, otherwise go the other way.

 

p.s. I have also had Mola Mola, Holo Audio and others in my system.

men

you have a lot of experience!

if you were to rank, by order of preference your dac...

 

many thx!

 

edit: im still using a UPL192 with the Mosaic T dac