Cd ripping

[gomezmichaelr]

Hello,

 

My name is Mike and this is my first post to the forum.

 

I currently have a very large Mac iTunes library (strictly aiff format), it is roughly about 4 terabytes, and it is divided into 2 separate libraries, the first library is classical and opera only (just over 18,000 tracks), and the second library is pretty much everything else (just over 19,000 tracks).

 

Well, it goes without saying that I have spent quite a while ripping and immaculately tagging everything that goes into my libraries.

 

My question is regarding cd copying, I rip cds by basically copying every aiff file directly from the mounted cd directly into iTunes, but by reading some of the post on the forums, Im having second thoughts about the process.

 

Can someone shed some light on the subject, is this an appropriate method of accurately ripping my cds?

 

Thanks

Mike G

 

[matossan]

well, you can find a butler that will do that for you if not I am not sure how else you can do it .. btw, impressive library ..do you share it by any chances ?

 

C

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Mike - So if I have this right, you are not using the ripping function within iTunes rather the file copy function of OS X?

 

What did you read that suggested you were doing things "wrong?"

 

[gomezmichaelr]

Hello Chris,

 

Well I don't think it was a specific post per se, but rather that nobody in the forum, as far as could tell, has discussed this method of ripping.

 

Again, maybe Im wrong and it has been discussed somewhere in the forums.

 

What I did notice is that, there is a lot of discussion regarding ripping and settings, and best practices, etc. And it made me wonder maybe there is a reason I have not come across the copying method that I use, maybe I been doing it all wrong.

 

My reasoning was that direct copying aiffs of the cd, is an exact immaculate copy of the original, but then again I could be wrong.

 

Well, thats it in a nutshell.

 

Btw, great website, I cant believe I just came across it.

 

Thanks for responding.

Mike G.

 

 

[paintsimonk]

Hello all,

 

I am new to Computer Audiphile and have been a stealth viewer for some time now - I am just entering the world of "proper" hifi, having purchased a DACmagic and AE and I am soon to buy a NAD 326BEE and B&W 685s.

 

Anyway, back to the question, I have conducted alot of research into ripping directly from CDs. It turns out iTunes and even Finder software isn't particularly good at reading optical media.

 

I personally use CDparanoia from within terminal. This gives you visual feedback as to the quality of the rip - any jitter picked up, any read errors and so on. It is also much more reliable and makes better use of your computers optical drive.

 

http://www.bronsonbeta.com/ is the site I downloaded the utility from. On the PC there is Exact Audio Copy which is very good at ripping CDs and will even compare the output to other users' rips via the internet for added surety.

 

Having visual feedback through CDparanoia allows me to assess the quality of the rip. Many a time I would listen to rips carried out through iTunes or Finder only to hear audible clicks (who knows how many inaudible errors there would). As CDparanoia makes better use of my optical hardware the number of poor rips has reduced significantly.

 

What I find concerning is that we are striving for the best sound from our interconnects, DACs, amps and speakers and yet we are using sub-standard rips. I think everyone should know this and use a suitable programme to ensure the best possible "immaculate" copy is obtained.

 

I am currently in the process of ripping my entire library using this software, verifying each rip and copying both the AIFFs to backup and ALAC files to iTunes.

 

I hope this helps.

 

[Audio_ELF]

pantimonk said ... "Anyway, back to the question, I have conducted alot of research into ripping directly from CDs. It turns out iTunes and even Finder software isn't particularly good at reading optical media."

There is a lot of half truths reported on the internet about this topic. Some people will say only EAC or dbPowerAmp can produce the perfect rip. Others say that iTunes will do perfectly good rips but acknowledge that there is a limit with iTunes that there is no feedback on the success of the rip. To be honest you need to read lots, test more, and then make your own mind up if the convenience of iTunes, etc. gives you the quality you want or if you are planning a more convoluted method to satisfy your own paranoia.

 

For those who say "well you're only ripping once so do the perfect job" how do you know in a couple of years time someone won't find that EAC and dbPowerAmp aren't flawed and there is another better way?

 

To the original poster, there is an article by Kent Poon in which he describes his testing of iTunes and Finder ripping vs EAC / dbPowerAmp (can't remember which) and he feels that iTunes and Finder are both perfectly good alternatives so I wouldn't worry too much. You could try re-ripping a few discs with Max or XLD under MacOS or EAC or dbPowerAmp under windows and see if you notice a difference. if you don't then be assured there probably isn't one.

 

Eloise

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi paintsimonk - Welcome to Computer Audiophile. Thanks for the comments and information. This is certainly a very important subject that people need to take as seriously as every piece of equipment they purchase. I've tried many different ripping applications and like some of the features on the Windows programs much better than iTunes. In terms of accuracy I can't really say if the rippers are any different from iTunes. I don't have any pops or clicks playing tracks ripped through iTunes.

 

I think a goo test of ripping accuracy is to use a perfect disc and rip it with several applications. Compare the differences, if any, and decide if the differences matter.

 

Then there is the issue of accuracy when ripping a scratched disc. Since iTunes does not provide feedback on errors it's tough to tell what's going on. The rip may be exactly the same as other applications. I believe iTunes interpolates automatically if possible whereas other applications can be set not to interpolate on errors.

 

Maybe I rambled a bit on this one and didn't make much sense, but that's kind of how I feel about the whole ripping situation. There is a lot of info available about ripping and I'd say nobody really knows what right, wrong, best, worst, etc...

 

I am going to look into the application you mentioned. Thanks for the link.

 

[audiozorro]

If you're just copying, which is ripping with burst and not heeding any error notices, then you won't have an idea of how bad the error was until you listen to it. This is one reason why apps like dBpoweramp and EAC use things like C2, Test & Copy, and AccurateRip so errors can be detected without listening to every rip as it is copied.

 

I use dBpoweramp burst + AccurateRip (built into dBpoweramp), and if the AccurateRip results are not satisfactory then I use dBpoweramp secure + AccurateRip. These errors are often apparent with new and used CDs, even when there are not any visible scratches or damage on the CDs.

 

Secure ripping is really the way to go if there are errors. When a track has errors it typically has many errors, so in these cases the secure rip would have data recovered that a burst rip could not (even if the secure rip itself has errors). If a secure rip is not possible, then a burst one is the best you can do (but will potentially have errors). Here are a few links for more info:

 

http://dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper-setup-guide.htm

 

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/secure-ripper.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check

 

It important to note that many errors may not be audible depending on the resolution of your system and hearing, but the errors are real. The standards for Redbook CDs are very loose and lax. A CD player or transport operating in real time must be able to gloss over any errors and continue to play with minimal audible objections, if any.

 

So just how important is an accurate rip to you versus an almost accurate rip? For most folks that have used the burst mode of ripping CDs, it is not practical to re-rip your CDs. However if you’re just starting out or have to re-rip for some other reason then using dBpoweramp or EAC for Windows and Rip or XLD for Mac are worthy of consideration if you really want accurate rips.

 

 

 

[paintsimonk]

Guys,

 

Probably should have made this a bit clearer - I am really referring to discs with scratches or other imperfections. Although surprisingly I have come across discs with what would seem manufacturing errors. One CD was brand new out of the case and had a noticeable skip in the first track.

 

I don't believe there would be any difference between completely perfect discs ripped with one application and any other. The fact is though most discs are not perfect - dust, hairline scratches and the like. Although not likely to cause any problems (with iTunes/Finder you would never know), some of my discs are slightly more scratched than I would like and have caused skipping issues in iTunes.

 

I also know my MacBook Pro drive isn't particularly brilliant and I have tried ripping with a Mac Mini drive which was equally inadequate. The drive that works best is a white MacBook drive. I never even thought hardware would be such an issue - so much so I am considering buying an external drive to speed up the process and to reduce read errors.

 

I hope I am not going on too much about this but after-all the file being played is the most important in any Computer Audiophile set up.

 

Thanks

Paintsimonk

 

[cfmsp]

 

"My question is regarding cd copying, I rip cds by basically copying every aiff file directly from the mounted cd directly into iTunes,"

 

So, you received a wealth of information, all valid, from different participants. I'll just come full circle back to your original question.

 

As I understand it, your method of 'ripping' was recommended by Vincent Sanders as the best sounding ripping alternative the last I heard.

 

Vincent is the guy who is most commonly credited with the use of pro audio software as playback engines, and was instrumental in convincing Sonic Studio to create Amarra from Soundblade. In other words, he has some credibility in this department.

 

More recently, he has begun to recommend an upcoming Amarra ripping program, per my understanding.

 

The point being, barring error detection/notification features, your method is as good as anyone else's.

 

enjoy

clay

 

 

 

[gomezmichaelr]

Well, a lot of good responses, and I have decided based on all the responses and other posts, that ripping with some sort of feedback its definitely the way to go.

 

Can someone expand on settings for Max (full cd paranoia mode), specifically the "Comparison Ripper Settings".

 

Thanks again for all the responses.

 

Regards

Mike

 

[rayhil]

Mike, while I'm far from an expert, I've been reading lots on this site and elsewhere on the subject. One site I found very informative was dbpoweramp in its discussion on configuring their product for the PC. It explains their setting ideas and describes why they're recommended. I haven't looked at Max in this regard, but the dbpoweramp info could be educational for you on settings.

Hope this helps.

 

[AudioWav]

I'm continually learning on this topic myself, but I've been ripping for years and I can tell you that I've gotten best results from those apps that don't try to spin the CD right out of the drive. I don't mind waiting a while, if I'm going to get the best results. This comes from using some of the old programs in the 90's that were unreliable at times. They always worked best when ripping at 2.5X or so. I know that the ripping technology is more mature now than it was then but I still like to keep things going slowly. I've been using EAC for a while now, but I would like to check out dbpowerAmp based on what I've read. You can't go wrong with either of those. Also, make sure you're ripping securely. From a reliability stand point, I like to use a higher end CD/DVD drive as well.

 

[wavac]

Use XLD, it is the best ripping software right now for MACs. I myself have 4Tb of Apple Lossless and they have all been ripped with XLD.