Dirac Mini DSP – a curve with a voice

[bigblue]

I am interested in buying the digital version of the Dirac Mini DSP in an attempt to lover some of my bass modes - but with out loosing the "voice" of my speakers in the mid and upper region.

 

The default curve that Dirac suggest is almost flat, sloping slightly downwards as the Hz increase. Does this not "kill" the identity or voice of the speaker? I'd assume this makes speakers from different manufacturers sound very similar. Or?

 

In my case I'd still like to have have a +4-5 dB bass and a slight dip around 2-5 000 Hz as the anechoic measurements of my speakers show.

 

Has any one tried to let the Dirac adjust the worst parts and then adjust the curve to more closely follow the original one?

[flak]

Adjusting the target curve so that it follows the general behaviour of the "before correction" curve, while maintaining the linearization and phase correction, can be a good idea... an example and the logic behind it here:

Speaker off axis: constant directivity horn waveguide speakers - Acoustic Frontiers

Also you can drag the curtains by the handles at the left and right in order to define the region of frequencies the correction is applied to.

 

Flavio

[bigblue]

Adjusting the target curve so that it follows the general behaviour of the "before correction" curve, while maintaining the linearization and phase correction, can be a good idea... an example and the logic behind it here:

Speaker off axis: constant directivity horn waveguide speakers - Acoustic Frontiers

Also you can drag the curtains by the handles at the left and right in order to define the region of frequencies the correction is applied to.

 

Flavio

 

Thank you Flavio, thats good news. Will the area outside the curtains be affected in the same way as Bypass? Or is it more of a "true" pass through? The reason for asking is that I believe that even in ByPass mode, the signal is affected in some ways, right?

[flak]

I don't know about miniDSP but in standalone Dirac Live when you commute between corrected and uncorrected (filter on or off) the level of the uncorrected signal is reduced to appx. align it with the corrected one (a higher volume would make the comparison unfair)

 

Flavio

[LBob]

I am interested in buying the digital version of the Dirac Mini DSP in an attempt to lover some of my bass modes - but with out loosing the "voice" of my speakers in the mid and upper region.

 

<snip>

 

Has any one tried to let the Dirac adjust the worst parts and then adjust the curve to more closely follow the original one?

 

If you mean does Dirac characteristic sound of the speaker the answer is no. I was very concerned about that when I tried Dirac and was very pleasantly surprised. I had fooled around with up sampling and really didn't like the results. To my ears, the music sounded "processed" and I very quickly stopped this experiment. RE adjusting the worse parts: In my case, most of my adjustment was in the bass, cutting down a couple of big bumps. From around 300 hz up I followed the existing response pretty closely. What you would like to do ( +4 to 5 db bass and a BBC dip) is easy to do in Dirac. They have a two week trial so you can see if it works for you. Do make sure you have all the equipment you need (mic, mic stand, cables) before you start though.

 

Good luck.

[dalehapde]

concerned about that when I tried Dirac and was very pleasantly surprised.

[bigblue]

Sounds good to me. I hope to get a demo next week at my home in order to evaluate the Dirac Mini DSP with my set up. If it works as well as I hope it will, my wife will be very reliefed as the next step would be bass traps .

[LBob]

Sounds good to me. I hope to get a demo next week at my home in order to evaluate the Dirac Mini DSP with my set up. If it works as well as I hope it will, my wife will be very reliefed as the next step would be bass traps .

 

Point out to her that it's much cheaper than a new pre amp or speakers!

[bigblue]

Oh, she's in love with the Sonus Faber Amati Futura in gray ash. I'll probably have to leave the house before they do...

[LBob]

Oh, she's in love with the Sonus Faber Amati Futura in gray ash. I'll probably have to leave the house before they do...

 

What a woman!!

[bigblue]

Had a Dirac MiniDSP demo at home today. The dealer set up the microphone and measured according to the instructions. But for some reason we could not get "the singer to the middle" when we loaded the curves. When Dirac was connected but no curve was uploaded to the box - it all sounded as normal when playing music. But as soon as a curve was uploaded (even if the Dirac was set to bypass) the singer went straight to the lower part of the right speaker.

Has anyone got a clue as to why?

The corrected curves them selves looked "perfect" going in a straight line following the desired path.

[mitkey]

But as soon as a curve was uploaded (even if the Dirac was set to bypass) the singer went straight to the lower part of the right speaker.

Has anyone got a clue as to why?

The corrected curves them selves looked "perfect" going in a straight line following the desired path.

 

 

I dont get what you mean and did you manage to resolve the problem ?

 

also in the end, the Dirac ended up in your system or ....?

[bigblue]

What I mean is that the image and the soundstage was warped, twisted. And that was "with" Dirac. Without is just spot on in the center. What I wanted Dirac to address was the two base nodes at 35 and 70 Hz. It did that, but distorted the rest of the presentation as well. So, NO, it did not end up in my system. Especially as the dealer was in my room twice trying to set it up. He was also in contact with Dirac directly, but they could not explain the deviation. So now I will try to tame the nodes with base traps.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

What I mean is that the image and the soundstage was warped, twisted. And that was "with" Dirac. Without is just spot on in the center. What I wanted Dirac to address was the two base nodes at 35 and 70 Hz. It did that, but distorted the rest of the presentation as well. So, NO, it did not end up in my system. Especially as the dealer was in my room twice trying to set it up. He was also in contact with Dirac directly, but they could not explain the deviation. So now I will try to tame the nodes with base traps.

 

No idea what the problem might be. What mike was used? Was the mike calibration file loaded? Might be some other calibration problem or your dealer is just ignorantly screwing up. Dirac works. There are too many positive testimonials for it, including Rolls Royce, Bentley, BMW, etc. It is the EQ system in the widely acclaimed $20k Datasat Mch prepro. So, something is definitely wrong in your end.

 

I have been using Dirac for over 6 months in a Mch 7.1 system with terrific results. A friend has, too in 5.1. We love it and would not be without it. A very positive improvement over Audyssey XT/32 with a Pro kit calibration.

 

The target curve should be downward sloping, by the way. Research has shown that to sound perceptually flat in the room, not just for Dirac. Measures flat would be too bright for in-room response. But, you can adjust it easily to taste. Just try to get used to the standard target curve for awhile before fiddling.

 

I wish you good luck in trying to tame bass modes with treatments. You will need even more than good luck, though. I think that is almost impossible for a DIY guy. And, most all off the shelf passive treatments are not effective below about 100Hz, no matter how expensive they might be, based on manufacturer's own measurements. Also, Floyd Toole said that passive treatments are a wide frequency band solution to a narrow band problem. He did not like them. And, they will have negative effects outside the narrow frequency bands you are trying to correct. Increasing numbers of pro acousticians are using EQ for the bass these days in HT/listening rooms.

[EuroDriver]

What I mean is that the image and the soundstage was warped, twisted. And that was "with" Dirac. Without is just spot on in the center. What I wanted Dirac to address was the two base nodes at 35 and 70 Hz. It did that, but distorted the rest of the presentation as well. So, NO, it did not end up in my system. Especially as the dealer was in my room twice trying to set it up. He was also in contact with Dirac directly, but they could not explain the deviation. So now I will try to tame the nodes with base traps.

 

on my MiniDSP system in my sig there is some wondering around of the acoustic center as you make a frequency sweep. Definitely noticeable when testing with sine waves, but not that bothersome when listening to music

[Fitzcaraldo215]

on my MiniDSP system in my sig there is some wondering around of the acoustic center as you make a frequency sweep. Definitely noticeable when testing with sine waves, but not that bothersome when listening to music

 

I have never done frequency tone test sweeps post-calibration with Dirac. I use Dirac primarily in Mch in the PC directly ahead of my Exasound DAC. With classical music, I hear no image wandering or spatial smearing at all at any time. Instruments and vocalists stay put firmly at all times in the locations on the soundstage where they are supposed to be. And, they do so with a dimensional solidity of body and proper sense of the size of the sound source on the best Mch recordings.

 

It is interesting to verify this with Blu-Ray videos of classical, including full orchestra concerts as well as operas. With opera, the singers frequently move around during the performance, and their position in the soundstage is perfectly in synch with the video on most such recordings.

[KnockKnock]

Sorry to hear of some guys having problem with Dirac. My 50 cent comes here:

 

I just want to say that I have been using Dirac for 3-4 years with different systems, though I did the occasionel measurement when a new thing arrived in my HiFi. And I have never had any problems at all. Once in a while I think my gear sounds muddy, just to see that I by incident have bypassed Dirac while doing other things on my Mac.

I don't say that I don't believe you guys who have problems with Dirac, I am just the lucky guy who hasn't ...

Enjoying every moment with my music and Dirac, without Dirac my music is lifeless, the bass is to loud/to low, the sound to much to the left or right, unfocused. Been working professionally as a sound engineer for 30 years (now making a living as a bus driver, which is quite fun too) so I know what to listen for, I hope

 

best KnockKnock

[Fitzcaraldo215]

on my MiniDSP system in my sig there is some wondering around of the acoustic center as you make a frequency sweep. Definitely noticeable when testing with sine waves, but not that bothersome when listening to music

 

I did a little more thinking about this, and possibly the issue with mono test tones wandering slightly is phantom center imaging in a stereo system, if that is how you were listening to the test tones.

 

Many who have tried it accept the fact that a mono center speaker generally delivers a better, more stable and solid center image from mono sources than does a phantom center from a stereo pair. It is somewhat complex as to why, but suffice it to say that room reflections coupled with a varying speaker dispersion pattern with frequency play a role in this, as does even turning your head slightly.

 

These issues likely cause an apparent image shift. Possibly image wandering would be lessened by just playing the mono test tone from just the L or R speaker in mono. However, the L and R speakers still each "see" an asymmetric reflection pattern in the room because they are closer to one side wall than the other. So, this might not completely eliminate the issue, depending.

 

In my Mch system, the dedicated center channel anchors the center of the soundstage far better than a phantom image would, and it has a more symmetric placement further from lateral reflections than either of the LR pair. The sonic result is easily repeatable.

 

There may be other things at work because the recordings are different, but I can generally hear a difference in imaging near the center of the soundstage between Mch recordings done in 4.0/1 vs. 5.0/1. Instrument placement across the center can be decent in 4 channel, but the image is more spatially smeared and more vague - less solid and dimensional compared to 5 channel. The same thing happens when playing a 5 channel recording in 4 channel mode with the recorded center mixed to the front LR pair for phantom imaging.

 

It is tough to pick this image specificity issue up when just listening to stereo or Mch music unless you have a speaker setup that allows you to compare with a center channel.