The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[michaelD]

On a slightly different subject I just replaced my two network cables (NAS to Router and Router to Aurender) from AQ Vodka to the new Nordost Heimdall 2 (1M and 10M). All I can say is now Tidal sounds better particularly the bass but also the overall sound has improved. Doing a A/B with local content streaming still comes in short but the difference now has narrowed considerably. At the time of my upgrade Nordost did not have a network cable so took a shot with AQ in hindsight if I knew they were coming out with a network cable should of waited sure would of saved some $$'s.

[michaelD]

On a slightly different Aurender topic - compatibility. Does anyone have a Parasound integrated and connected a Aurender X, N or W to it via USB? What I have found is that all formats work except DSD (.dsf) files. Just wondering what others with the combo are experiencing.

[michaelD]

Seriously disappointed. I hope somehow this changes.

 

I saw a demo at 2016 Axpona with ROON and also talked to Eric from Aurender. Yes I can see some benefit of the Roon integration but I was really not all that impressed with what it brought to the table beyond what Aurender with Tidal already has. According to Eric in order to have Roon you basically need to incorporate and work within Roon's rules. In the end I think the Aurender Conductor app would be worse off - to some degree those with Aurender are a little spoiled since the interface is so good. I recently worked with an Auralic version of the Conductor and was not impressed. With Tidal integration there is more info available on a particular artist and this will probably just grow in the future. You are right to assume that Roon within Aurender is dead - it is.

[michaelD]

DSD single with digital XLR or coax. 2x with USB

[michaelD]

Hi-I'm new to this forum and have a W20. Why did you use the PPA Black SATA cable just for the SSD drive, rather than for all the drives in your Aurender? The W20 has 3 drives so that would be a large investment in cables inside the unit. However if worth the expense I'm willing to do it. What aspect of your playback did it help?

Just curious.

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

I have a N10 and would also be interested in what exactly was "Better". Also a little more info or pictures on what you did and if needed to be ordered what and where to order from.

[michaelD]

Bug alert!

I noticed the latest firmware update of Aurender to cause audio dropouts for 1 to 3 seconds when playing hi-res music files. I hope Aurender fix this fast. I would also like to have the ability to turn on and off USB power - this is a very good feature especially for DAC that does not require a USB power for hand shake - SQ is up significantly if the USB power can be turned off.

The last update was in June or am I missing something? Did a new one just come out? I have no such issue with a N10.

 

Also concerning agladstone comment on what cable to connect. I prefer the AES EBU I did initial testing with similar quality cables and liked the AES EBU best. Maybe I was just confirming my bias as I just don't get the fascination with USB. It seems like a connection that many manufacturers have worked hard to make it work yet have over looked the obvious standard connection. I get it that this whole thing started with laptops and it was the only connection available but I think most would agree Aurender like products have kind of obsoleted the laptop or mac mini for that matter. Just like modern DAC's have basically obsoleted preamps if digital is your only source.

 

I'm putting on my flame resistant clothing awaiting incoming fire balls.

[michaelD]

I installed a new Aurender N10 in my sound system last month. Can you provide a step by step explanation on how to acquire the MQA update with the Aurender Conductor app?

 

I too have a N10 black and its quite easy to get content in the Aurender app. You need to first download the latest Tidal PC interface. Once you do go to "What New" and then scroll down to "Albums" and after "Top 20" you should see "Masters". If you don't you don't have the latest version of Tidal. Then select "View All" and you will have many but not a ton of choices. Actually a side bar on the albums they did have I kind of question the selections but that's my opinion. When you get to an album you want to click on the star to make it a favorite. Now when you go in to the Aurender app select for Tidal and the star for favorites and you will see all the albums you have selected. Then you can load the whole album or track just like normal.

 

I have tried really only a couple and since I do not have a DAC that is MQA ready I wanted to try anyway since from what I read even tracks that are coded with MQA they are supposed to sound better then red book etc. when played on a non MQA DAC. I tried Fleetwood Mac Rumors and compared it to my SACD and I really like the streamed one better. I was never really happy with the SACD version it always sounded thin and distant so this was a pleasant surprise. This weekend I'm going to do more comparisons and see. Hopefully Bricasti will update soon to be MQA ready.

[michaelD]

I definitely don't agree. I want to have my albums sorted by artist last name while presented in the UI with first name and last name - I can't. Within an artist, I want my albums sorted by release year - I can't. I want to be able to manage groups of albums like box sets - I can't. I want to be able to use custom tags for filtering and sorting - I can't. I could go on for ever, but my point is that the conductor app is NOT as easy as it gets. When you have a large collection (in my case 5000+ albums in various genres) you need a lot more flexibility and possibilities than what's available today.

 

I'm putting together my yearly list of improvements for the Aurender app. I have had great success in passing ideas on and find Aurender eager to interact. I'd be happy to add yours as you are looking for a way that is not typical for myself. Not to say it's wrong probably many experience their tracks how you do. For myself I have created a playlist artist by artist sifting out the normally few tracks within an album in some cases only one track that I like. From this list I tag the best of the best with 5star and then sort and create a 5 star playlist. I just like the idea of letting it run knowing that the next track is great from my main list without knowing what is coming and outstanding in the 5 star playlist. Now in your case you and probably many others want more interaction with your albums to create playlists on the fly. Sounds interesting. If interested send me a list of your 5 most wants and I will add to the list.

[michaelD]

Question for Aurender users: Can the Aurender connect to a NAS and can the Conductor App access and manage the files in the NAS similar to how it manages files in its internal hard drive?

For example, let's say that I have an album in the NAS and the same albums added to my library (say added from Tidal). If I were to do an album search will the Conductor App show both albums?

 

First off I have not updated to the latest software yet. So in my case I have all my SACD albums on the N10 and my ripped CD's on the NAS. So if I have a Eagles album SACD on the N10 and 5 different Eagles CD's on the NAS yes you will see all six of them together. In fact because the N10 has two hard drives if you had Eagle albums on those two plus the NAS all would be together in the album view.

 

With Tidal I don't think so that is handled separate. Maybe the new update allows that but I have not updated.

[michaelD]

I am researching Aurender now, currently using Mac mini and jriver, and I'd like to explorer something new that has better SQ and at least equal user experience (or maybe even better) than jriver. I don't use roon and no Tidal.

 

1, I only use USB DAC, no spdif or BNC is needed, and my music is in NAS anyway so no larger hard drives is needed, so I gusee N100 is good enough for me? Is N10 better in SQ than N100 via USB?

 

2, I have more than half of my music not tagged well, and I have no time to deal with tagging at least for now, so folder playing is very important for me. In jriver, I do folder view only, and sort tracks by jriver works very well, cover art is in the same folder as flacs named folder.jpg. So does Aurender software will do the same or similar that I can browser and play my music only by folders/subfolders?

 

3, some of my files are whole disc flac/cue, generated by eac, I guess ape/cue or flac/cue is ok with Aurender?

 

Thank you very much for you inputs.

 

1. The N10 is better then the N100H but the N100H is a pretty nice unit. I think a dealer on this forum rated them this way. N100H B-, N10 B+ and W20 A. If you are only going to use USB go with the N100H.

2. No sure here as I took the time to rip correctly and find Hi res album art. There is a folder view. I'm not that familiar with JRiver but I think there is a lot more ways to sort in the folder view then with Aurender. You really are not going to be able to do all that the Aurender app can with out fixing your albums.

 

3. Don't know.

[michaelD]

I updated today and really like all the updates. I had no problem with the update but did have to update and run AMM but this is normal. Hats off to Aurender keep it coming! Lots of nice MQA integration now just need my DAC to play them hopefully soon.

[michaelD]

13 minutes ago, jon2020 said:

Before going for the MQA software download,  what I would like to know is whether one can switch in and out of the decoder at will to allow for comparison. At the moment, I don't yet see that option. This issue would be moot for MQA dac's.

 

13 minutes ago, jon2020 said:

It say on the very first line under "New Features" that the MQA decoder can be enabled/disabled by user.  Did you miss that?

 

 

 

[michaelD]

7 minutes ago, eganz said:

 Yes it’s very exciting that this MQA upgrade has finally arrived.

 I installed it today, and it works very well.

I had actually requested this from tech-support 6 to 8 months ago, and it was unclear if it would be possible.

The cost is nominal, and well worth the upgrade if you subscribe to TIDAL,  or own MQA files.

 To those who do not understand how MQA works, or do not wish to upgrade, no one is forcing you…

For me, there is a clear benefit to doubling the sampling rate from 44 or 48 kHz up to 88 or 96 kHz (And it has been shown that the  unfolding correctly re-creates the Hi-Rez original files,  within the limits of our hearing, perhaps with some small MQA improvements/Modifications).  

Of course, we are always dependent on high-quality source material recorded in high-resolution 

 

 Thank you thank you to Aurender for implementing this update!

 

Eric

 

Unfortunately my DAC does not decode however I would like to take advantage for the unfolding.  The question I have is if in the software I select to turn the MQA decoding on how does this work for a mixed playlist of PCM, DSD and MQA.  Does the software know enough to not alter for PCM and DSD and only activate for MQA?  I would assume so but not sure.  OR if the MQA decoding on will it only work with a MQA playlist of tracks only?

[michaelD]

37 minutes ago, agladstone said:

@russellbobby I recall that you had tried the SR Black and SR Blue fuse’s in you Aurender N10. 

I just opened the fuse box in the IEC, and I see two 2A / 250v fuse’s in there. 

Do you know:

-Are they slow blow or fast blow?

- is one of these (top or bottom) a spare, or does the N10 use two fuse’s?? 

Thanks for your help!! 

Yes you need slow blow and both are needed.  Also note SR came out with a blue fuse that is above the black you may want to get this on niwnow

[michaelD]

Forgive me if this has already been asked but for those with a DAC that can unfold and decode MQA can you still do the unfold in the Aurender and just the decode in your DAC?  Do you need to switch something off in the DAC or does it just work?  The reason I ask is really like the looks that Aurender incorporatated into Conductor app and on their OLED display.  Would like to keep that but since at this time my DAC does do MQA just curious.  I understand the plan for Bricasti is to unfold and decode like many others do.  Also if you can unfold in the Aurender and just decode in the DAC does this affect the sound quality - I don't think so but also curious.

[michaelD]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:31 PM, Vincent1234 said:

See my earlier post on separating the first and second MQA unfold. My experience is that having the first unfold done by the Aurender and only the second by my dCS DAC improves SQ. But YMMV.

Sorry for the late reply but you can do the unfold in the Aurender and then do the rendering only in your DAC?  There is no issue with your DAC to bring in an unfolded file and then only do the rendering is that right?  You also say that you actually like the sound better splitting it up like this is that right?  Have you contacted MSB to discuss your findings and if so wonder what they say.  Do you have any idea or feel that all DAC's the unfold and render will act like yours is?  That is does the MSB DAC do anything special in the unfold or rendering process that may make this more likely to accept a unfolded file from the Aurender then say others?  Also are you using a USB or XLR connection from the Aurender to your DAC?

 

The reason I ask is I really like the Aurender look on the conductor and on the unit and would like to do exactly what you are doing once my DAC can unfold and render.

 

Also since you can hear the whole process what would you say the unfold process compared to the unfold plus render process is like 10%, 25% 90% of the sound improvement?  Just curious. 

[michaelD]

1 hour ago, Vincent1234 said:

To add to this specific question: it should be no problem at all for any full MQA DAC to accept a signal that already has the first MQA unfold performed before it enters the DAC. This is part of the MQA standard and as you can read here it works perfectly fine on isquirrel's MSB Select (or is this DAC not MQA yet..?) as well as on my dCS. ?

Could be useful if others here would chime in too with their experiences using other brands of MQA DAC's while also letting their Aurender perform the first MQA unfold.

To me this is great news in that I think the Aurender group did a great job both in the Conductor app and on the OLED screen to hilite MQA tracks!  I for one would hate to give this up once my DAC does both functions internally.   Also now with the great search feature for MQA its will be so much more convenient to find and play MQA.  I guess that feature will work if you unfold in the Aurender or your DAC - I have not tired but assume so.  So yes if others can chime in that have a DAC that both unfold and renders does it work to unfold in the Aurender and then play just fine through your DAC.  Mention your DAC and also comment on the sound quality if better or worse split up or all at once in the DAC.  

 

Personally I'm having some doubts that the sound quality is any better with the unfold in the Aurender and just the rendering in the DAC Vs all in the DAC.  Be curious the responses and any reasoning why it maybe better to separate the two processes sound quality wise.   I know Berkeley seems to be one company that I guess mandates it because of their design.  For those that do own such a DAC (beyond not having the computer power in the Berkeley) what is their reasoning???  

 

Also curious to know for those that can experience the full MQA experience what % of the total better sound is from the unfold only - any idea??

[michaelD]

So for all the W20 owners.  If you can’t take advantage of the dual XLR connection or the world clock does it sonically make enough difference to move to the W20 over the N10?  I don’t think so but I have never compared the two.  Also assume the system has enough resolution to hear the difference if there is any.  

[michaelD]

My son has a Parasound Integraded and a Aurender N100H for a couple of years.  To the best of our knowledge Parasound is not going to update (at least existing units) to unfold and render MQA in all its glory.  So he ordered a black A10 that he got yesterday.  I got to say I was real impressed.  I've seen and heard it at Axpona but this is the first time in a more familiar system.  

 

First off my son handed it to me and I was very surprised at how heavy it was.  We looked it up its similar in weight to my N10.  As always the workmanship was great and it just looks so impressive!  Just a real work of art - not that I'm surprised as when I think of quality manufacturing Aurender is very much on my list!  We proceeded to update the software etc. all went without a hitch then on to cloning.  This is the second time I have been involved in this process and its so easy and convenient.  You can only fully appreciate this process if you ever had do this all manually which many of us did the first time.  Playlist, albums, art etc. all come over its just great! 

 

So now to the sound and finally comparing MQA Tidal tracks to local PCM.  It was so easy to tell which one was the MQA version.   Comparing DSD at times it was not so obvious all the time but in most cases the MQA version sounded better.  I got to say the one real obvious one was the Fleetwood Mac Dreams track. I was excited a few years back to get the DSD version of this album but was so disappointed in the sound quality.  I liked the PCM version so much better.  The MQA version is so much better then both but in particular the DSD version. This is also a brand new unit with like 4 hours on it so the sound quality will only get better!  NIce going Aurender!!

[michaelD]

Well just took the plunge and traded in my N10 for a W20.   Pretty excited to hear it in my system.  

 

Also on the Roon integration with Aurender never going to happen.  They looked at that a couple of years ago and because of the almost total control Roon dictates they said not for us.  I really like the Aurender app it’s come a long ways yes some more color choices would be nice but Aurender is more feature focused.  Look at the last update the ability to do the first unfold of MQA for instance.   It’s not that Roon is bad it’s different and I just like the Aurender app better.   One thing that Aurender does much much better then Roon is customer support.  At least you are dealing with one human contact Roon is all find on your own which I don’t like. The email support I did not find very useful harder questions just did not get answers.  I eventually figured it out but really wanted help quicker which Aurender is so much better at.  I also tried to send suggestions in which Aurender welcomes yet when I did to Roon it was like I was insulting them.   I pushed back and they almost locked me out of the site.  Life is too short if you can’t take suggestions without thinking I’m trashing the product which I was not just offering things to make the application better.  

[michaelD]

Just got my W20 over the weekend.  The cloning process worked great but it does take some time.  Boy it is heavy compared to the N10 by alot and the N10 looks so small - the N10 is not as its a full size unit but next to the W20 it does.

 

Initial sound there is much more separation of instruments or vocals along with much more depth.  Still doing break-in so more on this later.

 

 

[michaelD]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I've had a W20 for a while and I recently moved it due to re-cabling my system. I forgot how heavy it is! It's a solid piece of craftsmanship.

You know another one that surprised me was the A10.  My son got one a few months back.  He had it sitting on the counter as we moved other components around and once we were ready I said " I'll grab it".  I was not expecting it to be so heavy!

[michaelD]

Another point I would like to make is the I have played with power cables to the W20 and just as suspected you can get by with a lot less expensive power cable as the only thing that power does it charge the batteries. So what I'm getting at is there is about a 10k difference at least LP between the N10 and W20 but if you figure in even a modest power cable to feed the N10 that cost difference could be substantially less. I used Nordost cables and initially I had Vahalla 2 power to the N10 but about a year ago upgraded to Odin 1 power. I immediately noticed a difference. Recently I have tried the Odin and a Try 2 with the W20 and I'm hearing no difference at all. I'm thinking you could even go lower in the Nordost line with little impact. I have not tested this but that is my feeling. I'm not saying go with the stock cable but something reasonable. Just something to think about. 

[michaelD]

24 minutes ago, bmichels said:

I was tempted by the W20, but I discovered that the 2 AES connectors of my DAC do not support dual mode AES/EBU. And also my DAC  does not have Clock input.  

 

So, I wonder if, without use of the dual mode AES/EBU and the Clock input, the W20 still offer an advantage over the N10, or if, with my DAC configuration, will the N10 will sound as good as the W20 ? 

 

The N10 is indeed much more recent than the W20 that is quite aging now...

I have a post on page 88 and just above on this page.  However since the page 88 post I have now well over 150 hours on the W20.  What I can say without the dual XLR and no clock is that infact the sound is much better.  Better separation of voice/instruments, much more depth to the sound stage and the bass is just better.  I was in your same camp with having a N10 for a couple of years and really have nothing to say bad about it its just the W20 is so much better.  Also like I say in the post on this page you can get by with a little less on the power side cable.

 

 

[michaelD]

1 hour ago, bmichels said:

I am still hesitating between an Aurender and a ROON based server. I not a ROON super-fan, and therefore ready to accept that Aurender's Conductor app is a very vialable alternative. 

IMO, The ONLY MISSING FEATURE of the Conductor app, compared to ROON (and Deezer), is the ability to READ THE LYRICS of the songs played. 

If this was implemented in the Conductor app, then I will be 100% sold to Aurender.

--> are there any rumors/news about Aurender implementing "lyrics" in a futur Firmware or Conductor' version ?

I’m not a big Roon fan either tried it and just liked the Aurender Conductor.   Also don’t be fooled not all tracks have lyrics as they don’t.   I don’t remember anymore but it came up often that there were none.   Maybe they have improved not sure.