NAD M51 just got demoted - to the NAD C510

[wwaldmanfan]

Although my gut feels like the one review on M51 vs. C 510 (on another site) may not do either justice (due to unspecified firmware and operational details), I decided that the M51 from Spearit was nearly the same price as C 510 and may as well get it - I really don't care about the volume control (at this point). I hope I've chosen wisely. (I'm not sure that it really matters since the same DAC IC is used in both...)

 

Just to be clear, while the M51 lacks a volume knob on the front panel, the supplied handheld remote controls power on/standby, volume up/down, mute, volume setup (variable or fixed), input source select (USB, coax, optical, AES/EBU, HDMI 1, HDMI 2), polarity, and front panel display brightness (4 steps).

[dadonred]

Now that I have a decent tube amp and will soon have an M51, I'm pondering what to do about my library: should I re-rip and to what? Apple lossless? AAC? 320kbps? (300GB of mixed mp3 / 192k / wav)

 

I also have this question: I think my chain will be: iMac / TOSLink / M51 / Amp - I believe PCM is sent over TOSLink, but does that mean that formats are converted by iMac? Does M51 play Apply Lossless and/or AAC (via TOSLink in)?

 

Thanks!

[wwaldmanfan]

Now that I have a decent tube amp and will soon have an M51, I'm pondering what to do about my library: should I re-rip and to what? Apple lossless? AAC? 320kbps? (300GB of mixed mp3 / 192k / wav)

 

I also have this question: I think my chain will be: iMac / TOSLink / M51 / Amp - I believe PCM is sent over TOSLink, but does that mean that formats are converted by iMac? Does M51 play Apply Lossless and/or AAC (via TOSLink in)?

Thanks!

 

The DAC does not care what or how it's fed, as long as it is PCM. You need a standalone music player application on your computer to read and convert the coded music files to PCM. This could be iTunes, Audirvana Plus, HQPlayer, Amarra, Pure Music, BitPerfect, or JRiverMC for Mac. It's the music player app that decodes the file format, whether it be MP3, AAC, WAV, AIFF, ALAC, or FLAC. Not all the above players read all these formats.

 

The NAD cannot play DSD files, DSF, or SACD ISO. However, some of the aforementioned music players can convert DSD, DSF, or ISO to PCM on-the-fly, or you can transcode them to PCM with a freeware app like XLD, and then save the converted files to your library.

 

Toslink is fine between the computer and the DAC, however, most people these days use USB 2.0. Your choice.

 

There's no benefit in upconverting your lossy files to another format, but recommend you re-rip, if possible, or save future CD rips and vinyl needle-drops in a universal, uncompressed, lossless format that can imbed metadata and album cover art directly into the files, namely AIFF.

 

A lossless, uncompressed file can be converted to any other lossless format down the road without degradation of SQ. Apple Lossless (ALAC) and FLAC are, in fact, lossless formats, but they employ compression to reduce the size of the files, and not all the above mentioned music players support these formats. iTunes cannot read FLAC, and HQPlayer cannot read ALAC. WAV is great, but has issues with saving metadata. Hard drive storage is so cheap these days, it doesn't make sense to choose compressed formats for your library.

 

Hope this helps, I'm sure others will chime in with more advice.

[dadonred]

Yes the information is helpful. For clarification - I was referring to re-ripping of CDs and vinyl only; I realize you can't really put back what has already been taken away I have looked into FLAC and XLD (and separately at JRiver). I will need to study/think about AIFF. (I'm really behind on formats, hence my question/confusion.) I'm sure I'll just have to do some experimentation, but thanks for your specific information on the M51. I will likely stay with TOS just to avoid using sparce USB ports on my iMac which are used for various digital recording/studio I/O.

[dadonred]

For owners of the M51, how do you set your volume level on the DAC vs. you amp? (And do you vary either depending on the type of music or just base it on the production in case the level varies?)

[pacoinmass]

For owners of the M51, how do you set your volume level on the DAC vs. you amp? (And do you vary either depending on the type of music or just base it on the production in case the level varies?)

 

dadonred,

 

I leave the volume level on the DAC fixed (maximum minus 1 db) and use the amp to adjust up or down based on the level from the particular album.

[PewterTA]

Most of my listening is done around -20dB from the M51 directly into my Amp via balanced connections. It'll fluctuate up to around -10dB, but some things I like it cranked up and will hit close to 0dB...but that's on a rare occasion. I'd say about 80% of the time its right on -20dB.

 

Depending on the loudness of each recording is how I judge. Most of my vinyl rips are -10 to -20dB. Any newer recording that I get on CD, is almost always -30dB or less due to compression and mastering unfortunately.

[wwaldmanfan]

I use the M51 as my preamp, direct into my 150/wpc stereo power amp. I often crank it pretty loud, when the wife isn't around.

There is a large variance in loudness between various recordings, so I set it anywhere between -7db and -28db. I'd say my average setting is around -15db.

[dadonred]

Thanks for the replies! I found an old article and a quote from NAD that -1 to 0 dB was where it _should_ be set. I've been exploring around that and feel OK with it. I do appreciate that the M51 has the volume control, but I seldom use it (yet am not yet committed to just setting it to 'fixed' either). I do enjoy my M51. I finally got around to A/B listening to my prior system (Denon 3802) vs. my new amplifier (M51 + Raven Blackhawk) - am happily stunned with the difference.

 

BTW, I hate to drag on a thread, but for those who replied above, I'd further be interested to know which type of music you typically listen to and how hard you push your amp. I only have the Blackhawk at ~ 40-45% in a media-room environment.

 

Also, have you used the phase reversal setting on the M51 and what made you think you needed to use that setting?

[KrammeAcoustics]

I use the M51 as my preamp, direct into my 150/wpc stereo power amp. I often crank it pretty loud, when the wife isn't around.

There is a large variance in loudness between various recordings, so I set it anywhere between -7db and -28db. I'd say my average setting is around -15db.

 

Funny it's also my default listening volume ( -15 db ) on my M51. Cool thing is the +10 db feature, so it also act as a pre amp. ;-)

 

Question:

i've got a NAD M51 and were thinking about buying another DAC for my other listening room and maybe C510 could be a solution. What about the difference between M51 vs. C510, have you tried listening them up against each other ? Nice feature, C510 has the volume knob that i'm always missing on M51.

 

Here's my setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJqFp6LNI4

[KrammeAcoustics]

 

I would like to hear from other M51 owners. Are you getting the air and space around instruments? What I hear and visualize in my mind’s eye while listing to music is this terrific clarity of the instruments and/or signer(s) with pinpoint accuracy as to location. At times it feels like each instrument has the microphone attached right on the body of the instrument – you hear the bow on the strings in a way I have never experienced previously.

 

 

It was a huge downgrade, when i got my NAD M51 ( sadly ) ...before that i had Sony CDP303ex and CDP505ex as digital source, which had a performance that M51 never is able to reach. Now i try to live with my NAD M51, but it's not easy when knowing that Sony were able to make such a good DAC in CD players back in 1990 and now in 2015, 25 years later, we have to live with poorer quality.

 

A guy who knows a lot about DAC's here in DK, said to me that i have to invest DAC's around 8-10000 $ or more, to get the sound i want/had before.

[mr_bill]

I think he's right.

[Kelly]

Thanks for the replies! I found an old article and a quote from NAD that -1 to 0 dB was where it _should_ be set. I've been exploring around that and feel OK with it. I do appreciate that the M51 has the volume control, but I seldom use it (yet am not yet committed to just setting it to 'fixed' either). I do enjoy my M51. I finally got around to A/B listening to my prior system (Denon 3802) vs. my new amplifier (M51 + Raven Blackhawk) - am happily stunned with the difference.

 

BTW, I hate to drag on a thread, but for those who replied above, I'd further be interested to know which type of music you typically listen to and how hard you push your amp. I only have the Blackhawk at ~ 40-45% in a media-room environment.

 

Also, have you used the phase reversal setting on the M51 and what made you think you needed to use that setting?

 

I can't promise this is true but I think that -1 or 0db (depending on firmware) makes maximum use of the headroom without digital clipping, so that would be considered full "line out" level. However, I have read that if you look at the distortion plots, supposedly -20db is actually the level that gives the lowest distortion. I have used the M51 with and without a preamp and found the volume control very transparent. That said, I have recently reintroduced my old tube preamp just because I like the tube sound (which is admittedly colored with warmth and some gentle smoothness.) I think my preference for the preamp is due to the fact that my new room is now a bit brighter than ideal because I haven't gotten around to building acoustic panels yet.

[wwaldmanfan]

Funny it's also my default listening volume ( -15 db ) on my M51. Cool thing is the +10 db feature, so it also act as a pre amp. ;-)

 

Question:

i've got a NAD M51 and were thinking about buying another DAC for my other listening room and maybe C510 could be a solution. What about the difference between M51 vs. C510, have you tried listening them up against each other ? Nice feature, C510 has the volume knob that i'm always missing on M51.

 

Here's my setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJqFp6LNI4

 

I haven't heard the C510, but the technical specs and connectivity options are identical. The C volume knob is definitely a plus.

 

The external casework on the C versus the Masters series equates to lighter weight and a flat black faceplate versus thicker brushed aluminum, but I also own a C 316BEE integrated amp and C 275BEE power amp, and they are not junk. The other difference with the C is one year less on the factory warranty, whether you buy it for full retail or as a show demo/refurb unit, which is what I did.

You can get a C510 here for under $900:

 

nadc510r NAD C 510 Refurbished - DACS and Transports