HQ Player

[Jud]

22 hours ago, bogi said:

So the added UPnP frontend to HQPlayer Desktop would cost nothing.

 

UPnP is such a non-standard "standard" that answering questions about problems with it would cost a lot of time. Embedded is a bit different, because there I think users are likely to be more able or willing to help themselves.

[bogi]

  

1 hour ago, Jud said:

UPnP is such a non-standard "standard" that answering questions about problems with it would cost a lot of time. Embedded is a bit different, because there I think users are likely to be more able or willing to help themselves.

 

I have few reasons why I am running Windows mini PC and not Pi as an additional device to my HQPlayer notebook.

One is that this mini PC is running more than 10 years old weather station software - it is very stable, load from it negligible, I don't want to change it. From this reason it runs 24/7.

The other reason to use Windows OS is CanOpener VST plugin as better alternative to Bauer crossfeed included in Matrix Pipeline dialog. I'm running it in foobar2000.

Having foobar2000 installed on the mini PC, it costs nothing to add foo_upnp. That gives full UPnP capability.

And maybe the most important thing is the additional 'playback stream capture' functionality of foo_upnp, which allows me to stream any content played in foobar2000 on that mini PC into HQPlayer Desktop as http stream (something like radio broadcast). I found that WAV stream better sounding on my HQPlayer notebook than traditional FLAC playback. Therefore I like it to use.

The only disadvantage is missing ability of automatic sample rate switching based on source content. But since I am sitting behind computer during listening on headphones, it does not make me crazy to switch something once per half hour (if ever).
So that are my reasons for Windows and mini PC.

 

But ... if I wouldn't have some specific reasons to use Windows mini PC, I feel I would try the Pi4 NAA input thing with some suitable free UPnP Renderer and Media Server software. From my point of view it would be a cheap and elegant solution to extend HQPlayer Desktop capabilities. That UPnP software could be command line without GUI, just providing the Renderer and Media Server functionality as soon as Pi is booted and running. So that Pi could run totally headless, to be only turned on and off.

 

This could of course exist also in the form of bootable image for Pi and UPboard, if somebody more interested in this thing would prepare the images and share them somewhere.

[dericchan1]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

 

From my point of view it would be a cheap and elegant solution to extend HQPlayer Desktop capabilities.

Cheap and elegant - for sure, if you can manage to get it to work of course. Except as most things in life, it does not always go as theoretically planned as one would hope.

 

I just tried it again, installed a UPNP renderer on a Pi, that works perfectly with jplay iOS.

However That loop back of USB cable idea did absolutely nothing. No NAA device showed up on the upnp renderer program as an audio device you can choose to play back.

 

 

 

[dericchan1]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

 

UPnP is such a non-standard "standard" that answering questions about problems with it would cost a lot of time. Embedded is a bit different, because there I think users are likely to be more able or willing to help themselves.

Not sure how you came up with the assumptions that embedded users are likely able and willing to help themselves. 

Well I don’t agree with that. For many audiophiles, If embedded suit your use case, even for absolute newbies like me would have gone for it. As a matter of fact, I can’t see installing embedded either as a bootable image or as an app within say Ubuntu to be more complicated then using the desktop version… I had the trial version setup that was pretty straightforward actually. 
 

I do agree with Miska’s decision to keep the two unique systems from having too many overlapping with one another. 

[dericchan1]

At the end of the day, I still think the NAA input is such a brilliant feature that add lots of value and flexibility to the hqplayer ecosystem.

 

perhaps one day someone can figure out how to, if at all possible to the same rpi serves as both a NAA and a upnp renderer. But nonetheless we are only talking about adding another source device to the input NAA, it’s really not a big deal

[dericchan1]

Another use case of the new NAA v5 that I previously never thought about is you can actually install a upnp renderer on your hqplayer desktop pc. Connect through usb to a rpi4 NAA input and use the same rpi4 as NAA output to a dac, taking advantage of the V5 capability to do simultaneously input and output!!!

 

This, in practicality will 100% work

[dericchan1]

Happy to report that having hqp desktop and upnp renderer on the same hqp desktop pc connected to a rpi4 as input and output NAA works fine.

[bogi]

2 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Another use case of the new NAA v5 that I previously never thought about is you can actually install a upnp renderer on your hqplayer desktop pc. Connect through usb to a rpi4 NAA input and use the same rpi4 as NAA output to a dac, taking advantage of the V5 capability to do simultaneously input and output!!!

 

This, in practicality will 100% work

 

That's interesting idea too, just that it is applicable only if HQP computer and input NAA are placed at the same place. I see you succeeded with that, nice!  👍

I noticed you did not succeed with the loopback cabling on Pi. I'm not sure if Pi switches default audio device automatically to the plugged in one in the same manner as it is usual on for example on Windows. Maybe one needs to change default output device by some command after the loopback cable is plugged in. I'm not familiar with Linux in this regard (I'm using Linux at work, but that's not about audio).

Maybe somebody will have a hint how to pass across this issue.

[sskom]

Interesting, is it technically possible to program NAA to be a UPNP device? Send data from a player to NAA in the local network, then NAA by Ethernet sends to PC/Mac with HQPlayer Desktop and then by the same Ethernet send upsampled stream to NAA as output...

[dericchan1]

59 minutes ago, bogi said:

 

That's interesting idea too, just that it is applicable only if HQP computer and input NAA are placed at the same place. I see you succeeded with that, nice!  👍

I noticed you did not succeed with the loopback cabling on Pi. I'm not sure if Pi switches default audio device automatically to the plugged in one in the same manner as it is usual on for example on Windows. Maybe one needs to change default output device by some command after the loopback cable is plugged in. I'm not familiar with Linux in this regard (I'm using Linux at work, but that's not about audio).

Maybe somebody will have a hint how to pass across this issue.

I should note that in this setup with my iem, I heard some added hisses, noise floor that were not there if I just connect my dac/amp to the iem with no input NAA.

 

i wonder if that is due to the rpi4 usb c port is both a otg AND power supply…

 

perhaps UP users may not experience this?

[bogi]

10 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

i wonder if that is due to the rpi4 usb c port is both a otg AND power supply…

Possibly, but IMO it could be also ground loop current caused by metallic USB connection of input NAA and your HQPlayer computer.

A test with Intona on Pi USB input side would answer this question.
But I don't know where your IEM were plugged in. Into your HQPlayer computer?

[dericchan1]

8 minutes ago, bogi said:

Possibly, but IMO it could be also ground loop current caused by metallic USB connection of input NAA and your HQPlayer computer.

A test with Intona on Pi USB input side would answer this question.
But I don't know where your IEM were plugged in. Into your HQPlayer computer?

My dac/amp dongle and the IEM is plugged into the RPI4 output NAA. 

 

Perhaps I can try just plug the dac/amp dongle to the HQPlayer computer and insert an intona there.

[bogi]

Inserting Intona within the USB connection between Pi and HQPlayer computer would IMO more clearly answer the question about the noise source. IMO better at signal source (Pi) side, but you can try also HQPlayer computer side of that USB connection. But of course, why not to try also to isolate the dac/amp dongle and compare audible effect of more possibilities.

[dericchan1]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

Inserting Intona within the USB connection between Pi and HQPlayer computer would IMO more clearly answer the question about the noise source. IMO better at signal source (Pi) side, but you can try also HQPlayer computer side of that USB connection. But of course, why not to try also to isolate the dac/amp dongle and compare audible effect of more possibilities.

Interesting. I tried my Asus dac output to my tube integrated amp to speakers - no hiss/noise

                                   Asus dac headphone amp 6.35mm SE connection to the IEM - no hiss/noise

Seems like the issue is either some ground loop or interference with the Hidizs HP amp (that's actually in balanced connection) OR the Hidiz dac with some compatibility issue in linux...

 

inserting intona did not help either

[dericchan1]

What's quite cool is that this set up with the upnp renderer and NAA input can stay in this room. I can use my main HQP desktop to select this setup as the input device and output to my main speaker setup!!!

[dknk]

3 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

upnp renderer

Which renderer are you using.

[dericchan1]

24 minutes ago, dknk said:

Which renderer are you using.

Jriver MC32

[dericchan1]

If someone has better recommendation for a lightweight easy to setup upnp renderer that allows user to choose output audio devices ie so I can choose the usb NAA input. That would be great!!!

 

thanks

Deric

[dknk]

Foobar2000 32bit version for Windows 11 with the "UPnP/DLNA Renderer, Server, Control Point" component works.

[dericchan1]

2 minutes ago, dknk said:

Foobar2000 32bit version for Windows 11 with the "UPnP/DLNA Renderer, Server, Control Point" component works.

Any suggestions for Debian Linux?

[Miska]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:19 AM, bogi said:

But the interface between chips is 5 to 7 bit binary weighted, so groups of DSD bits, converted to binary weighted, could be transferred in time, if such a thing would be implemented. We discussed that maybe a year ago, before your measurements. I mean something like DoP - it transfers DSD bits unaltered at lower PCM rate (352.7k) than DSD rate is (5.6M). The only significant difference against DoP would be temporary binary weighted encoding to spare chip pins.

 

If the conversion is running at lower rate, it still needs some decimation to reduce the conversion rate by factor of two or four.

 

On 3/11/2024 at 8:19 AM, bogi said:

How I see it: If direct DSD512 does not work, it is about incorrect documentation or buggy chip implementation, not about impossibility. At least from AK4191EQ and chip interface point of view. I don't know if AK4499EQ is internally able to operate at 22 MHz.

 

4499EX supports only 5.6 and 11.3 MHz rates. Anything else is conversion from some other rate.

 

[Miska]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:54 AM, bogi said:

Many people don't install Embedded because they are not familiar with Linux. Look at head-fi for example. They are running Desktop and many of them are missing the UPnP functionality to be used with streaming services.

 

Qobuz and HRA are already natively supported. And if you are on Windows, you can run Embedded under WSL2.

 

And booting up HQPlayer OS doesn't require any familiarity with Linux.

 

On 3/11/2024 at 8:54 AM, bogi said:

These are groups of people for which Desktop fits more than Embedded. Watching for example head-fi discussions I don't see a way it could be changed significantly in near future. Furhermore, this topic is bound with licensing model too. Desktop and Embedded require separate licenses and that discourages Desktop users to try Embedded.

 

Buying all the hardware costs as much as HQPlayer license.

 

On 3/11/2024 at 8:54 AM, bogi said:

If somebody already uses Pi4 as NAA, adding UPnP Renderer input would not require new hardware and probably some free UPnP Renderer could be used. So the added UPnP frontend to HQPlayer Desktop would cost nothing.

 

Required RPi4 hardware and HQPlayer Embedded license cost about the same.

 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, sskom said:

Interesting, is it technically possible to program NAA to be a UPNP device? Send data from a player to NAA in the local network, then NAA by Ethernet sends to PC/Mac with HQPlayer Desktop and then by the same Ethernet send upsampled stream to NAA as output...

 

Not necessary as HQPlayer Embedded can already be a UPnP Renderer.

 

[dericchan1]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

Not necessary as HQPlayer Embedded can already be a UPnP Renderer.

 

I agree. Ultimately you will be much better off just getting an embedded license, by the time you factor in the cost involved and the time you need to tinker with the setup.

 

[Miska]

On 3/12/2024 at 2:00 AM, Fredc said:

Both the UI and the navigation did not impress me. Simple things like short press, long press and double click on the same icon means different things.

 

Pretty common for example on iOS and Android apps overall. Roon also uses that on "pause" for example, short press for pause and  long press for stop. Adding a lot of buttons on the GUI takes away screen space from other things.

 

On 3/12/2024 at 2:00 AM, Fredc said:

The search is not very intuitive. You can search on screen 1 or 3. Little things like you search on an artist and other artists popped up whether it be in screen 1 or 3. On screen 3, you will then have to find the artist from the list to show his/her albums/songs (and took me a while to work out the albums are at the top of the list and songs follow.

 

Two views to the same data. Either the content view, or the multi-column view some people prefer for editing playlists.

 

On 3/12/2024 at 2:00 AM, Fredc said:

The queue list has load, save, delete functions and I'm yet to work out how to create a new list (the manual doesn't seem to explain).

 

Make some list, give it a name and click save. Works for both local content and Qobuz.

 

You can also for example upload a .pls form di.fm and then save it in the local library for easy retrieval of internet radio channels.

 

On 3/12/2024 at 2:00 AM, Fredc said:

It doesn't like me adding songs to a queue while it's being played

 

What is the problem with this?