Server: Connect one Ethernet port directly to upnp renderer and one port to router/netowrk. Possible?

[Diego]

Hello fellows!

 

I am looking for the best solution to connect my UPnP Server to the renderer. The hardware I use:

- Windows 7 Pro PC 64 bit. It has two (gigabit) ethernet ports. It serves as UPnP server (with Asset server).

- Resolution Audio Music Center V 2.0 as UPnP renderer.

- a standard router with wifi etc. (who serves as DHCP server, too)

- MediaHouse Pro as UPnP control point.

 

What I aim:

- a short connection between the server and the renderer. If possible with only one Ethernet cable.

- control UPnP streaming over the wirless network

 

The questions:

1. can I connect one Ethernet port of my PC to the general home network and use the other Ethernet port to connect the server directly to the UPnP renderer?

2. if yes: Can the router (DHCP server) access the renderer to assign the IP address? If not: can I configure Windows 7 to serve as DHCP server just on one of both Ethernet ports, just for the renderer (while being a DHCP client on the other port). And how?

3. Will the control point recognise the rendrer (that is connected directly only to the server)?

 

Thanks for any useful help!

 

Cheers!

[coxhaus]

Normally you would run a separate network for each NIC in the server if you are not teaming the NICs. You can use multiple NICs with the same network for redundancy but it would require a network with Spanning tree to be able to block multiple ports for the same network. One stays ready in case of failure and the network handles this. The simple solution is to setup 2 networks one for each NIC. On the non switched network just assign an IP address and mask on both the server NIC and the renderer. If you need internet access for the renderer then you will need to add a default gateway IP address and a router to support the second network. Some home routers do not do this well. DHCP is another problem because you will need to add an additional scope and DHCP relay which is another thing home routers don’t do well either so hard coding the IP addresses will be easier for the second network.

[Diego]

Thanks, Coxhaus! I guess you said it all... anyway, I must admit, that I probably won't be able to deal with this technical explanation. I'd need some "how to" that tells me each configuration step I need to do on Windows 7.

 

The renderer does not need to connect to the Internet. But I want to be able to control it with the control point, that is connected via wifi to the router. And I can not hard code the ip address (gateway, etc.) on the renderer, I guess it works only with a DHCP server that assigns everything for it.

[coxhaus]

If you need to route inside your network to be able to use the control point then you will need to setup routing in your network. You could also add wireless to the second network but your control point would lose internet connectivity. I thought the idea was to keep the second network as point to point for best sound. If you add any network devices to the second network then the effect will be the same as using the original network. As far as DHCP is concerned you need to add a second scope for the second network. This can be done different ways but most home routers do not support this. You can run a server which supports DHCP like Microsoft server but it would require additional expense. I don’t have a simple answer for you. It can be done but you need to address each item you need and figure out how to make it work.

[Diego]

Thanks again, Coxhaus!

 

You are indeed right, the main aim is to optimize the sound, reducing the way from the server the renderer to only one point-to-point connection, while taking advantage of the second NIC/EthernetPort installed on the server.

 

However, controlling via a control point should remain possible. If not, the entire exercise does not really make sense.

 

Maybe Internet Connection Sharing ICS might be a solution? This might make it possible to have a point-to-point connection over one LAN port, and the Windows 7 music server would make what is needed to connect it to the rest of the network.

 

The other possibility is of course to connect the server over USB to the player (async), and to simply use the player as external "sound card".

 

The next time I have time to play around, I will test which setups bring out all the sound this DAC is capable of. If USB is on the same level as UPnP, then I will then not bother around much more and have it play over USB. In this case, maybe even my current setup, using a Squeezebox Touch as "Transport" in between the server and the player (connected async with EDO) might turn out being on the same level as direct connections with the server. However, there is still potential for optimization, as the connection between the SBT and the server goes over dLan that could be avoided.

[davide256]

I'm not following... why not buy a GigE switch to connect both to the router? Seems to work fine for my like setup and was recommended as one of the CA DLNA article setups.

[coxhaus]

There is a thread going about Ethernet cables on this site where they have found switches degrade sound quality and point to point Ethernet sounds better. It you want to use a switch, just use one NIC and use your main network and don't bother with the second NIC.

[Cebolla]

Are they seriously suggesting that using a network switch which is dealing with audio file data via UPnP somehow injects noise into the audio stream being produced at the streamer any more than a computer/NAS could with a point to point network connection to the streamer?

 

Where is this thread?

[Cebolla]

Hello fellows!

 

I am looking for the best solution to connect my UPnP Server to the renderer. The hardware I use:

- Windows 7 Pro PC 64 bit. It has two (gigabit) ethernet ports. It serves as UPnP server (with Asset server).

- Resolution Audio Music Center V 2.0 as UPnP renderer.

- a standard router with wifi etc. (who serves as DHCP server, too)

- MediaHouse Pro as UPnP control point.

 

What I aim:

- a short connection between the server and the renderer. If possible with only one Ethernet cable.

- control UPnP streaming over the wirless network

 

The questions:

1. can I connect one Ethernet port of my PC to the general home network and use the other Ethernet port to connect the server directly to the UPnP renderer?

2. if yes: Can the router (DHCP server) access the renderer to assign the IP address? If not: can I configure Windows 7 to serve as DHCP server just on one of both Ethernet ports, just for the renderer (while being a DHCP client on the other port). And how?

3. Will the control point recognise the rendrer (that is connected directly only to the server)?

 

Thanks for any useful help!

 

Cheers!

Hi Diego

 

It's been a while, still sorting out your configuration I see!

 

I think you should be able to bridge the two NICs under Windows, but I'd be a bit wary about it working properly for forwarding multicast packets required by UPnP/DLNA discovery. If you've already got a cable run from the router to the computer, can't you get another to the renderer? Or have you run out of ports on the router?

 

John

[coxhaus]

Here is the thread

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ethernet-cables-audiostream-test-17713/

[Cebolla]

Thanks for that.

 

I'd rather be listening to music than worrying about whether someone's bad sound quality experience with a particular network device within their own network setup has any bearing on my setup or anyone else's, for that matter.

 

My advice to our friend Diego here is to try to at least get some music playing as intended, by using the simplest commonest methods to connect his devices to the network. Once things are working properly, then, perhaps it'll time to experiment with different network configurations, cable types, etc, if the playback sound quality is not as good as not playing back by network streaming.

[Diego]

Thanks for all your ideas. I am far from home these days, I'll try new solutions and report back as soon as I can. My goal remains to avoid a switch, if feasible, as "less is usually more". I prefer not to participate in the discussion about the question, whether losses over digital connections are possible or not, I just want to make my connection as direct as possible. Maybe it helps for the sound quality. Maybe it does not make any difference. Anyway, it won't hurt, I guess.

[Diego]

I forgot to answer to Cebolla this point: Thanks for your thoughts about setting up a working environment before optimizing. However, my current setup does work now. Anyway, I want to make sure, that I avoid all potential bottlenecks that may prevent my DAC/UPnP-renderer from playing at its full potential.

[Cebolla]

Ok. I'd assumed you'd yet to replace the powerline adapters with ethernet cables, mentioned in your other thread.

 

Has your occasional problem with the MediaHouse UPnP/DLNA control point not seeing the renderer also resolved itself, BTW?

 

It would not surprise me as there are also multicast support issues with some powerline adapters. It may be worth testing if the BubbleUPnP app can now see the Cantata, as it could have been the powerline adapters rather than the renderer that were not behaving themselves with UPnP.

[Diego]

Yes, as assumed conclusion of the other discussion here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/troubleshooting-cantata-universal-plug-dplay-player-not-recognized-ipod-or-android-control-points-resolution-audio-cantata-music-center-18320/index2.html , it was probably some issue with the dLan/powerline. I did not expect this and tested it rather late, as the dLan setup proofed to be very robust for all other network applications (including hi res audio UPnP with different renderers). Anyway, connecting my particular renderer over only ethernet as a trouble-shooting step, everything worked fine. I have not re-tested BubbleUPnP up to now, as I was quite happy as for now with MediaHouse. I will do occasionally.