24/192 from Chesky Records

[zerung]

More good news from the High Res industry. Chesky now sells 5 disk with 24/192 music.

 

This is available in the US only. Bummer for us living elsewhere.......

 

http://www.chesky.com/

 

[audioengr]

What hardware are you going to play it with?

 

I just tried a Fireface 400 and even at 24/96 it has hiccups and needs to bypass kmixer......

 

I think the only thing that works is Lynx PCI card in a desktop, but I have not tried 24.192 with it.

 

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

 

[VincentH]

Hi Steve, I've got the FireFace 400; if you use Foobar2000 for playback you can get bitperfect playback with the ASIO plugin on XP or the WASAPI plugin on Vista, no extra steps needed to bypass kmixer. Both plugins can be downloaded here.

 

I have no idea why you get hickups, the FireFace requires next to nothing in terms of computer performance. You could try posting your issue on the RME User Forum for the FireFace series, they have been very responsive and helpful for me.

 

One thing the FireFace is picky about is the FireWire chip used. Many laptops (pc but eg also imac) use subpar firewire chips that do not correctly implement the firewire specification. A workaround is getting a cheap dedicated FireWire card or in some cases plugin a FireWire device that also acts as a hub (eg some external HDs do this) and then piggyback the FireFace on the other device.

 

An expensive solution like the Lynx is not needed to get stable bitperfect output, if you have a decent firewire connection.

 

Hth Vincent

 

[VincentH]

[Rant]

I love Chesky records, they produce some of the best sounding recordings I know of.

 

So when I Just received an email from Chesky, stating that I can buy some 192/24 recordings I get interested, even though I do not know the albums offered.

 

So I went to the Chesky web site, only to discover Chesky dropped the ball three different ways at once:

• No (lo-quality) preview on the site. I won't buy if I do not know I like the album. Other Hi-Res sites such as HDTracks do this much better
  
• No download, mail order only. In many countries in the world broadband is common for years now; I have just an average connection, common for households in the Netherlands, and I routinely download multiple DVDs.
  
• And most important: Only available in the USA. What in the world is that for? Why send me an email (note: domain ends in .NL) when you don't want to sell me anything? Is it really too much trouble to stick a foreign address on a DVD and maybe charge some extra shipping costs? E.g. Reference Recordings HRx ships their hires DVDs worldwide, no problems at all, sir!
  

 

Now I'm disappointed in Chesky, I was under the impression that they were an innovative company.

 

I hope someone at Chesky wakes up and realizes the global Internet age has arrived quite some time ago.

 

There. That feels better already :-)

[/Rant]

 

Update: Some of these recordings are available as download through HDTracks in lesser (but still hires) quality: 24/96 Flac. People interested in listening to a sample can do that there e.g. for The Good Life.

 

[Suteetat]

Ditto, I wonder if it is copyright/licensing issue? Chesky owns HDtracks and that's only available in the US.

Oh well..... can't say that I am all that familiar Chesky offering either. At least now I am listening to 2L 24/192 downloads of Vivaldi cantatas, something that I actually like!

 

 

 

[BobH]

It does seem rather counter to the concept of a global economy, a largely American driven ideal, that Hi-Res downloads delivered from outside the USA are all globally available and the same delivered from within US borders are available only to US citizens. Even more strange because the same rules do not seem to apply to low-res downloads and only apply to 'some' internet radio streams - Pandora, oh how I miss you!

 

Anyone from that side of the pond feel able to comment? Any insights into this, Chris?

 

Oh, and agreed, it's bloody annoying!

 

[zerung]

What hardware are you going to play it with?......

 

Steve,

I am not sure if you are noting this because.......

 

I am using Apple Mac with itunes onto Weiss DAC2. Yes I am having problems with scratching noise, almost like some low res white noise.....

 

Is your question related to this??

 

Thanks,

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

"Anyone from that side of the pond feel able to comment? Any insights into this, Chris?"

 

 

Hi Bob - Here is part of an email discussion I had with someone very familiar with this topic and totally unrelated to HDtracks (in case you're wondering about some affiliation). I removed the identifying information where appropriate but the main points of the message are really what matters in this discussion. This person wrote the following to me late in 2008:

 

 

The problem with international sales of downloadable music is this:

 

Recordings are generally speaking a work of art and thus protected under copyright laws. The artitst who originally composed the muisc do have the legal rights to it for 70 years (in the US) or 50 years (in the EU). When these works are sold as a recording there is something called "mechanicals" involed. A part of the product price goes to the author or to the organization representing him. Legally these mechanicals have to be paid in the country of the purchaser as the different countries do have very different calculation approaches and rates. If these mechanical rates are not paid it technically is an illegal download as the author of the music will not participate from the sale

 

Furthermore there is also the problem of value addet tax (VAT). In the U.S. this does not yet exist on internet purchases but in the EU you do have to pay the VAT for downloads in the country in which the purchaser resides. With different VAT rates in different countries this means different prices for identical products. Again technically speaking a downloader would have to notifiy the local tax office to pay VAT. Obviously that is close to impossible to check and a U.S. company would find it burdensome to pay VAT abroad, especially as this would drive up their prices.

 

Finally many works are protected by distribution agreements only giving local rights of sale as other companies my have legally acquired the rights to these recordings elsewhere.

 

With all of this you will find that [many companies] don't sell outside the US as the legal implications would be extremely difficult to tackle. Just to give you an idea: i-Tunes in Europe is having different prices for identical downloads depending on the location of the downloader. They have to report to 27 different tax offices and 27 different copyright organizations monthly and use 23 different languages in that and pay accordingly. That is something you will not see many US companies willing to do for a market that has not embraced commercial downloads. To put it in a nutshell: It seems even i-Tunes in the EU (who is the biggest fish in the pool by far) is loosing money to date.

 

 

 

 

[BobH]

Well, that very neatly explains that, then! Many thanks for the reply, Chris.

 

Makes you wonder what the artists make of it all, though, doesn't it? - what with them not making a sale! And I also have to wonder why it would be a problem for HDTracks to provide a service to UK customers but not for Linn to provide a service to US customers? I suppose the intricacies of international music sales businesses will remain a mystery to me - not got long enough left to live - but it seems a shame, nonetheless.

 

I do know that the Pandora problem stems from an inability for them to come to a mutually agreeable arrangement with our Performing Right Society (PRS). The PRS here in the UK has a generally dreadful reputation - insisting on ridiculously high payments - which does nothing more than mean that companies cannot trade profitably, and therefore do not trade. Meaning that, once again, it is the artists that ultimately lose out.

 

I can't see a down side to everyone getting this sorted out but I don't suppose it would be a good idea to be holding my breath, waiting for it to happen!

 

Anyway, thanks for the answer, Chris, and if you get a chance to bang any heads or twist any arms at any time I, for one, would be exceedingly grateful.

 

PS. If there are any interested US companies (you know who you are!) reading this post, we have some money for you, if you'd like to let us buy some of your stuff!!

 

[audioengr]

VincentH - thanks, I'll try the ASIO when I have a chance. Sounds really bad without it. The problem is that I have tried about 10 different ASIO's with USB interfaces and found that none of them were really transparent. All have coloring. This is why I use XP and unmap. Now this is transparent.

 

The Last version of Foobar 0.9.x I tried sounded worse than Foobar 0.8.3, so I still use 0.8.3. The ASIO's created for 0.8.3 are obviously colored. The best were 47a and 51.

 

I tried the Fireface 400 on two laptops, both XP. On the older more powerful one, it wil not even start. The newer one works perfect with 44.1 tracks, but with downloaded 96 tracks it makes strange gargling noises every 30 seconds or so. Not the pops like USB when it has latency problems.

 

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

 

 

[audioengr]

zerung - my noises are periodic gargling noises, and only when I play native 24/96 tracks.

 

Like the Fireface 400, the Weiss DAC uses asychronous hand-shake with the computer, so the jitter on the Firewire cable should be less of an issue.

 

I am driving the Fireface 400 into my Pace-Car reclocker and using the word-clock input on the Fireface. This seems to work fine. I think since the problem is periodic, it may be a latency issue.

 

If your noise is periodic also, you might try defragging the drive where your music resides.

 

steve N.

Empirical Audio

 

[zerung]

Thanks Steve,

Will try.

 

BTW Chris,

Based on your friend's comments, port with no tax such as Hong Kong, Singapore, Macau, etc should have no problem with import of the Chesky offerings. As I live in HK I will try this line of argument with Chesky.

regds,

 

[Suteetat]

Hmmm.. it kind of understandable that download music is still relatively new and much works needed to be iron out regarding taxes, vat etc in international sale. However, Chesky only sells physical hires disc so there should be no difficulty as VAT, taxes etc are handled at the delivery's end, right! I don't see any reason why we can't order it from the US and have it shipped elsewhere. This model of business has been around for a long long time unless Chesky only has certain Geographical Right to distribute, I suppose.

 

[lapaix]

My DAC2 is not happy with 24/192 files, whether they are on the internal drive of my Macbook Pro or on an external firewire or USB 2.0 hard drive. They are essentially unlistenable. 24/96 is no problem. More or less as a last resort I have ordered an eSATA PCI express/34 card so maybe it is firewire and (?!) USB 2.0 that are giving the problem. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[zerung]

Lapaix

Is this due to the white noise?

If so, you should try all the 4 different modes in the Weiss-controlsoftware. (operation mode). I get noise in mode 2, hence I have set this at normal mode. No problem now.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[pacwin]

In fact when they first announced this there was no US only restriction. I placed an order within a few hours of the product being announced and they happily shipped to New Zealand. I noticed a few days later that the website had changed.I just been listening to the Monty Alexander Limited Edition 192/24 disc (Zhaolu 3 DAC direct into an Antique Sound Labs AQ1009 amp via the I2S bus over Ethernet from an Odeum (VIA Vinyl chipset) soundcard courtesy of Foobar/ASIO on a custom built music server). This came in a jewel case with the SACD insert. I prefer the Chesky SACD discs to the necessarily converted PCM files sonically but it sure saves digitizing them.

 

It may have been easier to ship than to reverse the transaction so I guess I was lucky. It may be possible to use a freight forwarding service like http://www.myusabox.com/. ? Given that they sell the SACD discs this is unlikely to be a licensing issue or a means of protecting their worldwide distributors. I think that Chesky doesnt want to give away his intellectual property in legal environments he can't control. Which is fair enough. At US45.00 each plus shipping which was close to NZ100 each at the exchange rate of the time, they are still a curiosity until they can be downloaded over the Internet.