Noob's Proposal For New System - A Request For Assesment & Wisdom

[bluesman]

It's buggy! I had absolutely no problem installing it on my PC at work, but it crashes Foobar every time I tried to open it on my home PC last night. When I removed all 4 TouchRemote dll files from the Foobar folder, Foobar returned to full function.

 

More to come......

 

[mayhem13]

Other may disagree with me but I'm not a fan of Laptop/notebooks for audio file source direct playback....far too noisey an environment and plenty of design compromises for the sake of portability and space.

 

At the risk of sounding too easily swayed, another post (yours) changed my mind - again. I'm going with CAPS!

 

It's that $350 sound card that gets me. I can't see how an expensive sound card can make any difference when the outboard DAC is doing all the work. I guess there's more research to be done before pulling the trigger on anything.

 

Thanks.

 

SilverStone Technology Co., Ltd.- LC13-E

 

While I wouldn't spend $350 on a sound add either, in respect to the designer, the omission of it no longer makes it a CAPS.......and that's ok. Chris and other have done some excellent work and research to develop an outta tha box solution for computer audio....but I'm sure he would agree there's more than one way to the same destination.

 

A few things I've picked up along the ways of reading here and other places, as well as real work experiences.....

 

I like optical.....it cannot transmit electrical interference. If the effects of said EMI are already in the bitstream, then there's nothing to be done with any of the transmission methods anyway. Optical is limited in bandwidth, but as Paul mentioned there's little reputable commercial content available to the consumer and I doubt that's going to change. And IMO only, there's no audible benefit of the higher rates

 

The DAC 'IS' responsible for dealing with whatever jitter may be present, whether its USB, Optical, whatever. If the correct implementation of DA conversion is there and proper error correction, the DAC can handle it. This kinda tech isn't exactly cheap and IMO wouldn't expect it done in a sub $300 product.....for all intents and purposes. What's 'good enough' is the an individual question and yours to answer.

 

Processors.......more cores, more switches, more heat, more power, more noise. Some will make the arguement for latency....in the real world fro one end of the chain to the other, the reduced latency of a faster CPUs is negligible when compared to other factors. Just my opinion of course.

 

SSD drives.....I like em for the operating system....super fast boot times, no noise or heat, what's not to like? For external drives, standard HDD is fine but I prefer eSata interface for external of you have to go that route. USB3 is certainly fast.....and extremely electically noisey. Stay away....far far away.

[Audio_ELF]

While I wouldn't spend $350 on a sound add either, in respect to the designer, the omission of it no longer makes it a CAPS.......and that's ok. Chris and other have done some excellent work and research to develop an outta tha box solution for computer audio....but I'm sure he would agree there's more than one way to the same destination.

As I recall the Level 1 CAPSv3 (Tonga) doesn't use the SotM card...

 

I believe some people have found a cheep ($20) USB 3.0 add-on card to offer some of the advantage of the SotM card for a much lower cost.

 

Eloise

[thestewman]

Thanks Nombedes & David.

I checked out the CAPS (Zuma) components and it uses a $350.00 sound card. David's advice leads me to believe this is not a necessary choice. It would be great to save $250-$300 if a $50-$100 PCIe card would yield close to the same sound quality and s/n ratio. I'm also convinced the i7 processor as overkill for a rig that will never do anything beyond sound output and the occasional web surfing. I've made a few other economical adjustments that shouldn't affect performance, but I would really to hear some good opinions.

 

 

I hate to rain on any ones parade but some clarifications need to be made here.

There is NO SOUND card in a caps machine and no sound card is used for music playback from any windows laptops or Mac mini either.

The card you are referring to is a Sotm USB card. It is used to separate the USB output from the cpu board USB buss and eliminate any interaction or interference with any other USB devices such as external hard drives etc. There are less expensive alternatives to the Sotm so check the Caps forum.

 

 

 

[Paul R]

Slightly OT:

 

I actually rather like the optical output from the new Mac Minis. The people that automatically dismiss them are missing a boatload of good sound. And the immunity of optical connections to EMI is a real thing.

 

I have a Mac Mini and a PC side by side right now, and am working on creating a perfectly clean AIFF library to test with JRMC Mac's version. I am using the PC to import the media library and test that the metadata works perfectly well.

 

The PC is running a Coax cable from the motherboard audio to the Coax input of a Peachtree DAC*IT, which is galvanically isolated. The Mac is running optical to the same Peachtree. The Mac Mini has Bluetooth turned on temporarily for the conversion process, and we all know Bluetooth is *notorious* for productin RF noise. How true - when I run XLD on the Mac it will, occasionally, but out such a blast of RF that it will cause the Coax connection from the PC to drop for a second. No blast of noise (galvanic isolation, remember?) but the signal drop out is amazing. Turn off blue tooth, no issues. Wow...

 

Just for fun, I put a PC laptop up close and tried doing the same with dbPowerAmp. No problems. Until I plugged in a wallwart powered USB drive, which must act like an antenna or something. Drop outs galore! Even from across the room. Wowzers....

 

Music servers like low power drives that are bus powered, and they don't like to have Bluetooth turned on. Optical connections are nearly immune to RF trash that will cause Coax cables to actually drop out. If I told you what happened when I started playing with HDMI cables, you would have a heart attack...

 

-Paul

[bluesman]

The card you are referring to is a Sotm USB card. It is used to separate the USB output from the cpu board USB buss and eliminate any interaction or interference with any other USB devices such as external hard drives etc.

 

There's a lot more to the SOtM USB card than a separate bus for audio. I can't personally vouch for the audible value of it all, but here's a diagram of the component modules and functions. This card will enable ad hoc power from an external source (even battery) to isolate the signal from any power-associated internal PC noise. The power switch on the card turns off the DC to the USB jacks so there's nothing but signal there. The PCIe version has a USB3-compliant host controller, and data transfer speed over PCIe is more than 10x greater than that of PCI. I don't know of any other USB card that has all this, although I also don't know how much of a contribution to quality each individual function really makes.

 

 

I suspect that any well designed and well made USB card will provide significant improvement over a noisy integral USB bus that's also driving multiple other devices, which may be why some have found happiness with a $20 card. But a dedicated audio player shouldn't have multiple USB devices in use during listening anyway - in fact, none should even be connected except the USB audio interface. Running signal in and out of the same USB bus is probably the most common avoidable cause of audible degradation, e.g. USB HD source and USB DAC output.

[Gary.D.Olson]

CONFIGURATION AS OF 2/14/12 @ 8am PACIFIC TIME

 

 

This whole rig will only remove $1191.00 from my wallet, possibly less according to mayhem13 & Eloise. I won't be using USB anyway.

 

 

 

The differences between the following computer configuration & Chris' reputable CAPS box are: 1. Case (not as sleek looking but shouldn't affect sound output or ambient noise and extra room actually gives it some advantages), 2. Ram (shouldn't affect SQ and if it did, a few bucks additional would buy Chris' choice), 3. Lower Sandy Bridge CPU (shouldn't make any audible difference and will provide all the power needed for audio-only use), 4. Cheaper but good SSD of same capacity (again, shouldn't make any audible difference), 5. Addition of Internal 3TB WD Green hdd (will add tiny bit of ambient noise, but I've had 3 of these in my HTPC for tw years & know how silent and cool they are – extremely), 6. Different sound card (affect – unknown, but it shouldn't make any measurable difference).

 

 

Computers are modular beasts, are they not? If I end up not liking the SQ from the $40.00 Asus sound card (or anything else) in this configuration, I'll THEN spend the $350.00 for the CAPS approved solution. Other than that, this box should be a winner. Interconnects? You be the judge, please.

 

 

 

 

COMPUTER ($820.00)

$60.00 SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum skin reinforced plastic front panel, 0.8mm SECC body MILO Series ML03B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

$100.00 Intel BOXDH77EB LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

$46.00 G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT

$50.00 Intel Celeron G540 Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80623G540

$60.00 ADATA Premier Pro SP600 ASP600S3-64GM-C 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$140.00 3TB Internal Western Digital SATA Green Hard Drive

$40.00 ASUS Xonar DGX 5.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Gaming Audio Card

$60.00 picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit

$50.00 Playback App: JRMC v18

$9.00 USB 3.0 internal cable

$65.00 SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter

$140.00 Microsoft Windows 8 Professional 64-bit (Full Version) – OEM

 

 

EVERYTHING ELSE ($371.00)

$100.00 Schiit Modi DAC (sub-$300? Yes, but these have an excellent rep for sounding way beyond its price point. The designer of DTS - and a whole lot more - makes these and sells 'em direct)

$50.00 Media Software JRiver Media Center

$5.00 Optical Cable (1)

$11.00 RCA Cable Belkin 3' RCA (2)

$0.00 Integrated Amp ****Denon DRA-1025R receiver

$73.00 Sub Woofer RCA Cable 20' bluejean (3)

$0.00 Sub Woofer Velodyne F1200 Powered with Variable Crossover

$73.00 Sub Woofer RCA Cable 20' bluejean (3)

$0.00 Integrated Amp ****Denon DRA-1025R receiver

$60.00 Speaker Cable *****16-gauge Accell B109B 100ft UltraAudio speaker cable (4)

$0.00 Speakers *********Canton Karat 920 DC (stands yet tbd)

$0.00 Remote Control **********Kindle Fire and/or Harmony One

$0.00 Remote Control Software ***Gizmo – included with JRMC

$14.00 Bluetooth Receiver ******* IOGEAR GBU421 2.1 USB Micro Adapter USB (5)

 

 

$1191.00 GRAND TOTAL “OUT OF POCKET” (PLUS TAX AND SHIPPING WHERE APPLICABLE)

links to most of this stuff:

 

1. Optical cable - http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Toslink-Fiber-Plated-Digital/dp/B001VJ680U/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360835480&sr=1-3&keywords=audiophile+optical

2. Belkin 3' RCA (Amazon.com: Belkin PureAV RCA Audio Cable 3 ft: Electronics)

3. 20' bluejean rca subwoofer cable (Amazon.com: Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Double-Shielded Low Capacitance Subwoofer Cable, 20 foot, White: Electronics r=1-11&keywords=blue+jean+cable+rca)

4. 16-gauge Accell B109B UltraAudio speaker cable (100ft) Amazon.com: Accell B109B-100F UltraAudio Speaker Cable, 16-Gauge CL3-rated 100ft / 30m: Electronics r=1-10&keywords=speaker+cable

5. IOGEAR GBU421 Bluetooth 2.1 USB Micro Adapter USB IOGEAR GBU421 Bluetooth 2.1 USB Micro Adapter - Newegg.com)

[mayhem13]

Great real world experiences Paul! Of course, being the objectivist that I'm believed to be, I can't develop any facts from your experiences, but I can sure make some assumptions and I agree with your experiences strongly.

 

Coincidentally, I'm heading to Micro Center right now to pick up the final pieces for a local music only server. They're got these killer bundle deals with iCore processors, compatable Mobos and SSD drives. Imagine an i3 ivy bridge, Sata 6 Mobo and 120gig SSD for $250......yummy!

 

Not really final....don't have the case yet. I'm gonna machine my own faceplate from billet aluminum with the Bridgeport mill at work. Should be fun..........?

[mayhem13]

CONFIGURATION AS OF 2/14/12 @ 8am PACIFIC TIME

 

 

This whole rig will only remove $1191.00 from my wallet, possibly less according to mayhem13 & Eloise. I won't be using USB anyway.

 

 

 

The differences between the following computer configuration & Chris' reputable CAPS box are: 1. Case (not as sleek looking but shouldn't affect sound output or ambient noise and extra room actually gives it some advantages), 2. Ram (shouldn't affect SQ and if it did, a few bucks additional would buy Chris' choice), 3. Lower Sandy Bridge CPU (shouldn't make any audible difference and will provide all the power needed for audio-only use), 4. Cheaper but good SSD of same capacity (again, shouldn't make any audible difference), 5. Addition of Internal 3TB WD Green hdd (will add tiny bit of ambient noise, but I've had 3 of these in my HTPC for tw years & know how silent and cool they are – extremely), 6. Different sound card (affect – unknown, but it shouldn't make any measurable difference).

 

 

Computers are modular beasts, are they not? If I end up not liking the SQ from the $40.00 Asus sound card (or anything else) in this configuration, I'll THEN spend the $350.00 for the CAPS approved solution. Other than that, this box should be a winner. Interconnects? You be the judge, please.

 

 

 

 

COMPUTER ($820.00)

$60.00 SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum skin reinforced plastic front panel, 0.8mm SECC body MILO Series ML03B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

$100.00 Intel BOXDH77EB LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

$46.00 G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT

$50.00 Intel Celeron G540 Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80623G540

$60.00 ADATA Premier Pro SP600 ASP600S3-64GM-C 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$140.00 3TB Internal Western Digital SATA Green Hard Drive

$40.00 ASUS Xonar DGX 5.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Gaming Audio Card

$60.00 picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit

$50.00 Playback App: JRMC v18

$9.00 USB 3.0 internal cable

$65.00 SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter

$140.00 Microsoft Windows 8 Professional 64-bit (Full Version) – OEM

 

 

EVERYTHING ELSE ($371.00)

$100.00 Schiit Modi DAC (sub-$300? Yes, but these have an excellent rep for sounding way beyond its price point. The designer of DTS - and a whole lot more - makes these and sells 'em direct)

$50.00 Media Software JRiver Media Center

$5.00 Optical Cable (1)

$11.00 RCA Cable Belkin 3' RCA (2)

$0.00 Integrated Amp ****Denon DRA-1025R receiver

$73.00 Sub Woofer RCA Cable 20' bluejean (3)

$0.00 Sub Woofer Velodyne F1200 Powered with Variable Crossover

$73.00 Sub Woofer RCA Cable 20' bluejean (3)

$0.00 Integrated Amp ****Denon DRA-1025R receiver

$60.00 Speaker Cable *****16-gauge Accell B109B 100ft UltraAudio speaker cable (4)

$0.00 Speakers *********Canton Karat 920 DC (stands yet tbd)

$0.00 Remote Control **********Kindle Fire and/or Harmony One

$0.00 Remote Control Software ***Gizmo – included with JRMC

$14.00 Bluetooth Receiver ******* IOGEAR GBU421 2.1 USB Micro Adapter USB (5)

 

 

$1191.00 GRAND TOTAL “OUT OF POCKET” (PLUS TAX AND SHIPPING WHERE APPLICABLE)

links to most of this stuff:

 

1. Optical cable - http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Toslink-Fiber-Plated-Digital/dp/B001VJ680U/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360835480&sr=1-3&keywords=audiophile+optical

2. Belkin 3' RCA (Amazon.com: Belkin PureAV RCA Audio Cable 3 ft: Electronics)

3. 20' bluejean rca subwoofer cable (Amazon.com: Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Double-Shielded Low Capacitance Subwoofer Cable, 20 foot, White: Electronics r=1-11&keywords=blue+jean+cable+rca)

4. 16-gauge Accell B109B UltraAudio speaker cable (100ft) Amazon.com: Accell B109B-100F UltraAudio Speaker Cable, 16-Gauge CL3-rated 100ft / 30m: Electronics r=1-10&keywords=speaker+cable

5. IOGEAR GBU421 Bluetooth 2.1 USB Micro Adapter USB IOGEAR GBU421 Bluetooth 2.1 USB Micro Adapter - Newegg.com)

 

Just give serious considerations to the power supply......the mother of all evils where PC audio is concerned. .......and sorry to say I don't have any useful advice here. Best to search around here a bit in past threads or create a new one.

[Paul R]

Looks like a good setup, but let me caution you - you have a lot of things in there you say "should not make any difference."

 

We have a member here who has a motto that goes something like - " In audio - everything matters."

 

He is correct in that.

 

-Paul

 

 

CONFIGURATION AS OF 2/14/12 @ 8am PACIFIC TIME

 

 

This whole rig will only remove $1191.00 from my wallet, possibly less according to mayhem13 & Eloise. I won't be using USB anyway.

 

 

 

The differences between the following computer configuration & Chris' reputable CAPS box are: 1. Case (not as sleek looking but shouldn't affect sound output or ambient noise and extra room actually gives it some advantages), 2. Ram (shouldn't affect SQ and if it did, a few bucks additional would buy Chris' choice), 3. Lower Sandy Bridge CPU (shouldn't make any audible difference and will provide all the power needed for audio-only use), 4. Cheaper but good SSD of same capacity (again, shouldn't make any audible difference), 5. Addition of Internal 3TB WD Green hdd (will add tiny bit of ambient noise, but I've had 3 of these in my HTPC for tw years & know how silent and cool they are – extremely), 6. Different sound card (affect – unknown, but it shouldn't make any measurable difference).

 

 

Computers are modular beasts, are they not? If I end up not liking the SQ from the $40.00 Asus sound card (or anything else) in this configuration, I'll THEN spend the $350.00 for the CAPS approved solution. Other than that, this box should be a winner. Interconnects? You be the judge, please.

 

 

 

 

COMPUTER ($820.00)

$60.00 SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum skin reinforced plastic front panel, 0.8mm SECC body MILO Series ML03B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

$100.00 Intel BOXDH77EB LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

$46.00 G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT

$50.00 Intel Celeron G540 Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80623G540

$60.00 ADATA Premier Pro SP600 ASP600S3-64GM-C 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$140.00 3TB Internal Western Digital SATA Green Hard Drive

$40.00 ASUS Xonar DGX 5.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Gaming Audio Card

$60.00 picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit

$50.00 Playback App: JRMC v18

$9.00 USB 3.0 internal cable

$65.00 SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter

$140.00 Microsoft Windows 8 Professional 64-bit (Full Version) – OEM

 

 

EVERYTHING ELSE ($371.00)

$100.00 Schiit Modi DAC (sub-$300? Yes, but these have an excellent rep for sounding way beyond its price point. The designer of DTS - and a whole lot more - makes these and sells 'em direct)

$50.00 Media Software JRiver Media Center

$5.00 Optical Cable (1)

$11.00 RCA Cable Belkin 3' RCA (2)

$0.00 Integrated Amp ****Denon DRA-1025R receiver

$73.00 Sub Woofer RCA Cable 20' bluejean (3)

$0.00 Sub Woofer Velodyne F1200 Powered with Variable Crossover

$73.00 Sub Woofer RCA Cable 20' bluejean (3)

$0.00 Integrated Amp ****Denon DRA-1025R receiver

$60.00 Speaker Cable *****16-gauge Accell B109B 100ft UltraAudio speaker cable (4)

$0.00 Speakers *********Canton Karat 920 DC (stands yet tbd)

$0.00 Remote Control **********Kindle Fire and/or Harmony One

$0.00 Remote Control Software ***Gizmo – included with JRMC

$14.00 Bluetooth Receiver ******* IOGEAR GBU421 2.1 USB Micro Adapter USB (5)

 

 

$1191.00 GRAND TOTAL “OUT OF POCKET” (PLUS TAX AND SHIPPING WHERE APPLICABLE)

links to most of this stuff:

 

1. Optical cable - http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Toslink-Fiber-Plated-Digital/dp/B001VJ680U/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360835480&sr=1-3&keywords=audiophile+optical

2. Belkin 3' RCA (Amazon.com: Belkin PureAV RCA Audio Cable 3 ft: Electronics)

3. 20' bluejean rca subwoofer cable (Amazon.com: Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Double-Shielded Low Capacitance Subwoofer Cable, 20 foot, White: Electronics r=1-11&keywords=blue+jean+cable+rca)

4. 16-gauge Accell B109B UltraAudio speaker cable (100ft) Amazon.com: Accell B109B-100F UltraAudio Speaker Cable, 16-Gauge CL3-rated 100ft / 30m: Electronics r=1-10&keywords=speaker+cable

5. IOGEAR GBU421 Bluetooth 2.1 USB Micro Adapter USB IOGEAR GBU421 Bluetooth 2.1 USB Micro Adapter - Newegg.com)

[bluesman]

The differences between the following computer configuration & Chris' reputable CAPS box are: 1. Case (not as sleek looking but shouldn't affect sound output

 

Oh great! Now you've done it, Gary - you'll start a thread on the sonic benefits of case design, material and construction. To minimize noise from cosmic rays and sunspots, I make all my cases from unobtanium.

 

[Paul R]

Yah- I would not quote them as universal facts either, but it sure do be interesting, don't it?

 

I *wish* I could find a setup like that around here for $250! Not even close at the local Frys, which is a good store to avoid anyway. I used to love the Microcenter back home new Philly. The closest we have here is Altex, which carries everything, but at a significant mark up...

 

-Paul

 

 

Great real world experiences Paul! Of course, being the objectivist that I'm believed to be, I can't develop any facts from your experiences, but I can sure make some assumptions and I agree with your experiences strongly.

 

Coincidentally, I'm heading to Micro Center right now to pick up the final pieces for a local music only server. They're got these killer bundle deals with iCore processors, compatable Mobos and SSD drives. Imagine an i3 ivy bridge, Sata 6 Mobo and 120gig SSD for $250......yummy!

 

Not really final....don't have the case yet. I'm gonna machine my own faceplate from billet aluminum with the Bridgeport mill at work. Should be fun..........?

[Audio_ELF]

Just an observation: don't you have an Asus sound card to provide SPDIF output and a DAC which is USB only?

[bluesman]

It's buggy! I had absolutely no problem installing it on my PC at work, but it crashes Foobar every time I tried to open it on my home PC last night. When I removed all 4 TouchRemote dll files from the Foobar folder, Foobar returned to full function. More to come......

 

Wintense.com (the source of the files - here's a link to download them) had the answers. I should have installed the dll files with the installer instead of unzipping them into the components folder myself, and I needed to upgrade .NET framework from 3.5 to 4. Put FoobarCon, FooMote Lite,Foobar2000 Controller or TunesRemote+ on your Android and you'll have a remote control app to get you started. Read the entire Wintense download page and FAQs before starting - I would have been up and running last night if I'd followed this advice.

[Gary.D.Olson]

Based on some commentary, I decided to do away with the sound card altogether and try the motherboard’s optical out. This could save me $40.00 bringing the total cost down to *$1166.00. I can always add a separate card if the sound is less than superb. (*if you compared this math from last night’s post, yeah, I was $15.00 off. Damn pain killers.)

mayhem13

“While I wouldn't spend $350 on a sound add either, in respect to the designer, the omission of it no longer makes it a CAPS.......and that's ok. Chris and other have done some excellent work and research to develop an outta tha box solution for computer audio....”

How about I give it my first initial and call it “GAPS”. Seriously, I really do humbly appreciate Chris’ hard work, and the advice freely given by you and the other audio fiends. I mean friends.

mayhem13

“…I like optical.....it cannot transmit electrical interference. If the effects of said EMI are already in the bitstream, then there's nothing to be done with any of the transmission methods anyway.”

THIS is the comment that got me thinking about trying the mobo’s optical out before spending another $40.00 or more on a sound card. Thanks, mayhemJ

mayhem13

“Optical is limited in bandwidth, but as Paul mentioned there's little reputable commercial content available to the consumer and I doubt that's going to change. And IMO only, there's no audible benefit of the higher rates”

I agree.

At the risk of sounding like an idiot… (gulp) it’s my firm belief anything above a sample rate of 96k is pure marketing scam to lure people in to buying new hardware, their favorite music – again, and other merchandise of various types. The recording industry, music artists, software makers, manufacturers of DAC’s, AV receivers – crap, even interconnect companies CAN’T WAIT for the train loads of money they’ll surely make.

How many equipment reviews have you read here, in Stereophile, and elsewhere describing products as sounding “AWESOME”, “INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL,” “MAGNIFICENTLY WONDERFUL,” “FAITHFULLY REPRODUCED”, “WORTHY OF GOD’S AUDIO RACK,” (okay, maybe not that one)????? ? How many of those audio systems were driven by content with a sample rate above 96k? There is another winner in all this craziness. ME! And anyone else who lies in wait for great deals on the most excellent audio gear this universe has ever seen. Yes, I will thank Mr. Jones next door - who sadly thinks life is a competition – when he literally “buys” in to the hype and then needs to unload the old junk. SHHHHHHHH!!!! Let’s keep a lid on that.

“For external drives, standard HDD is fine but I prefer eSata interface for external of you have to go that route. USB3 is certainly fast.....and extremely electically noisey. Stay away....far far away.”

The current plan is an internal SATA hdd. If that needs to change, I’ll go with eSATA. My motherboard supports it. I will stay clear of USB 3. Thanks!

mayhem13

“Just give serious considerations to the power supply......the mother of all evils where PC audio is concerned…”

I’m using a CAPS certified PSU. It’s listed in the configuration details as “picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit.” It should power the motherboard, SSD, and Western Digital “Green” hdd.

Paul Raulerson

“Looks like a good setup, but let me caution you - you have a lot of things in there you say "should not make any difference." We have a member here who has a motto that goes something like - " In audio - everything matters." He is correct in that.”

I’ll buy that. This is where the modularity of a PC works to our advantage. If the sound quality fails to satisfy, things will get yanked.

Audio Elf

“Just an observation: don't you have an Asus sound card to provide SPDIF output and a DAC which is USB only”

Negative on both counts.

bluesman

“Read the entire Wintense download page and FAQs before starting - I would have been up and running last night if I'd followed this advice.”

Will do. Thanks so much for all your inputJ

 

Thanks again, everyone.

Gary

[mayhem13]

Don't forget the glass optical cable.....nothing too crazy as glass is glass. Remember that they're not as flexible as plastic and you'll need to consider the routing from the Server to your audio gear when selecting the correct length. The mfgr should provide some info on minimum radii.

[Gary.D.Olson]

I've set aside a whopping $5 for a 3' optical cable, and this rig won't need to rely on a network as all components will all be together. The computer's internal 3TB hdd will easily hold our music library with loads of room for growth in the future.

 

Have a great evening.

 

Gary

 

 

 

Don't forget the glass optical cable.....nothing too crazy as glass is glass. Remember that they're not as flexible as plastic and you'll need to consider the routing from the Server to your audio gear when selecting the correct length. The mfgr should provide some info on minimum radii.

[Gary.D.Olson]

I forgot "BREATHTAKING..."

[Gary.D.Olson]

"...the likes of which I never thought possible..."

 

"Sonically Miraculous!"

 

anyone else care to add?

 

 

 

 

I forgot "BREATHTAKING..."

[Gary.D.Olson]

 

"... The sound can only be described as holographic..."

 

Man, I want holographic sound! How can I get that?

[Paul R]

I'll be interested in hearing from you after you get a good CA system together and notice the difference between a 24/96 version and 24/192 version.

(grin)

 

I do honestly think you are going into CA with perhaps, a few too many assumptions about what is and what is not important, but that's actually part of the fun of the whole thing. Have fun!

 

-Paul

 

 

 

Based on some commentary, I decided to do away with the sound card altogether and try the motherboard’s optical out. This could save me $40.00 bringing the total cost down to *$1166.00. I can always add a separate card if the sound is less than superb. (*if you compared this math from last night’s post, yeah, I was $15.00 off. Damn pain killers.)

 

mayhem13

“While I wouldn't spend $350 on a sound add either, in respect to the designer, the omission of it no longer makes it a CAPS.......and that's ok. Chris and other have done some excellent work and research to develop an outta tha box solution for computer audio....”

How about I give it my first initial and call it “GAPS”. Seriously, I really do humbly appreciate Chris’ hard work, and the advice freely given by you and the other audio fiends. I mean friends.

 

mayhem13

“…I like optical.....it cannot transmit electrical interference. If the effects of said EMI are already in the bitstream, then there's nothing to be done with any of the transmission methods anyway.”

THIS is the comment that got me thinking about trying the mobo’s optical out before spending another $40.00 or more on a sound card. Thanks, mayhemJ

 

mayhem13

“Optical is limited in bandwidth, but as Paul mentioned there's little reputable commercial content available to the consumer and I doubt that's going to change. And IMO only, there's no audible benefit of the higher rates”

I agree.

At the risk of sounding like an idiot… (gulp) it’s my firm belief anything above a sample rate of 96k is pure marketing scam to lure people in to buying new hardware, their favorite music – again, and other merchandise of various types. The recording industry, music artists, software makers, manufacturers of DAC’s, AV receivers – crap, even interconnect companies CAN’T WAIT for the train loads of money they’ll surely make.

How many equipment reviews have you read here, in Stereophile, and elsewhere describing products as sounding “AWESOME”, “INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL,” “MAGNIFICENTLY WONDERFUL,” “FAITHFULLY REPRODUCED”, “WORTHY OF GOD’S AUDIO RACK,” (okay, maybe not that one)????? ? How many of those audio systems were driven by content with a sample rate above 96k? There is another winner in all this craziness. ME! And anyone else who lies in wait for great deals on the most excellent audio gear this universe has ever seen. Yes, I will thank Mr. Jones next door - who sadly thinks life is a competition – when he literally “buys” in to the hype and then needs to unload the old junk. SHHHHHHHH!!!! Let’s keep a lid on that.

 

“For external drives, standard HDD is fine but I prefer eSata interface for external of you have to go that route. USB3 is certainly fast.....and extremely electically noisey. Stay away....far far away.”

The current plan is an internal SATA hdd. If that needs to change, I’ll go with eSATA. My motherboard supports it. I will stay clear of USB 3. Thanks!

 

mayhem13

“Just give serious considerations to the power supply......the mother of all evils where PC audio is concerned…”

I’m using a CAPS certified PSU. It’s listed in the configuration details as “picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit.” It should power the motherboard, SSD, and Western Digital “Green” hdd.

 

Paul Raulerson

“Looks like a good setup, but let me caution you - you have a lot of things in there you say "should not make any difference." We have a member here who has a motto that goes something like - " In audio - everything matters." He is correct in that.”

I’ll buy that. This is where the modularity of a PC works to our advantage. If the sound quality fails to satisfy, things will get yanked.

Audio Elf

“Just an observation: don't you have an Asus sound card to provide SPDIF output and a DAC which is USB only”

Negative on both counts.

 

bluesman

“Read the entire Wintense download page and FAQs before starting - I would have been up and running last night if I'd followed this advice.”

Will do. Thanks so much for all your inputJ

 

Thanks again, everyone.

Gary

[Gary.D.Olson]

Paul,

 

LOL. Hey, I am having fun with this. It's exciting to rediscover my music collection while also getting acquainted with a community of fiendish, I mean friendly audiophiles such as yourself. Honestly, some of this is nothing more than a little jealousy on my part of those with the money to replace their CD collections for SACD, then dumping their SACD collection for DVD Audio, and knowing they'll dump the DVD Audio for 24/192, and so on and so on. I wish I had the money to acquire the things I find meaningful

 

Sound quality can be scientifically evaluated and even quantified. If I'm wrong about 24/192, proving it will be easy. That being said, I'm still amazed at how much money was wasted replacing working computers for a faster CPU we didn't need, and perfectly good cameras following the release of a sensor with more megapixel. After all; more is better, right?

 

Am I skeptical? Yes. Still, I'm not entirely close minded and would be much obliged if you or anyone else would enlighten me with the answer to the following puzzlement:

 

Let's assume for a moment we can trust at least some of the countless rave reviews from Stereophile, Home Theater, and too many other audio magazines to name - not to mention the tens of thousands of non-professional rave reviews from reasonably smart people with the best gear money can buy. Let's also assume most of those reviewers - professional and private - used 24/96 content or less throughout their evaluations (and you know they did). Here's Mr. Skeptic's question: If the quality of sound heard by those reviewers was TRULY worthy of being described as "Magnificent" "Breathtaking" "Brilliant" "INSPIRATIONAL" "Perfect" "SO GOOD, I NEVER WANTED TO TURN IT OFF" - what superior descriptions do you think they'll use to describe 24/192? Will reviewers have to invent BETTER adjectives? Will 24/192 suddenly not sound great anymore when 24,000/192,000K comes along?

 

As always, it will be interesting to see it all unfold.

 

Gary

 

 

I'll be interested in hearing from you after you get a good CA system together and notice the difference between a 24/96 version and 24/192 version.

(grin)

 

I do honestly think you are going into CA with perhaps, a few too many assumptions about what is and what is not important, but that's actually part of the fun of the whole thing. Have fun!

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

Skeptical is good. Especially in a situation where people are out to separate you from your money. But it also can be a bit blinding. 24/192K has been around a while, and 24/384 is getting pretty common. 24/768 is here in at least one DAC, whose designer and seller is here on C.A.

 

As to why it sounds better? Basically the best answer I know of is that it avoids the artifacts inevitably introduced with filtering in the DAC. Or rather, it allows the designer to move the artifacts well above the audible range of any human being.

 

Also, most of us agonize over spending cash as much as you do, just ask the folks around here how long it takes me to make up my mind, and how often I tend to decide on lower cost gear because I am astute, economical, an wise. (You can translate that as dirt cheap and not be far off... )

 

CDs ripped for digital playback can sound as good as a top flight CD player to my way of thinking, and given what I have heard even on other folks really top flight systems. (Think audio systems any self respecting audiophile would drool over...not mine though! )

 

One reason the record companies fight digital so hard, and make sure that Apple for instance, is not selling true CD quality downloads, is the fear they have that people will stop re-buying the music. Why should they when it never degrades and just sounds better and better with each new evolution of DACs?

 

In any case, have fun with it, but try to keep a bit of an open mind. Might surprise you what you find.

 

-Paul

 

 

Paul,

 

LOL. Hey, I am having fun with this. It's exciting to rediscover my music collection while also getting acquainted with a community of fiendish, I mean friendly audiophiles such as yourself. Honestly, some of this is nothing more than a little jealousy on my part of those with the money to replace their CD collections for SACD, then dumping their SACD collection for DVD Audio, and knowing they'll dump the DVD Audio for 24/192, and so on and so on. I wish I had the money to acquire the things I find meaningful

 

Sound quality can be scientifically evaluated and even quantified. If I'm wrong about 24/192, proving it will be easy. That being said, I'm still amazed at how much money was wasted replacing working computers for a faster CPU we didn't need, and perfectly good cameras following the release of a sensor with more megapixel. After all; more is better, right?

 

Am I skeptical? Yes. Still, I'm not entirely close minded and would be much obliged if you or anyone else would enlighten me with the answer to the following puzzlement:

 

Let's assume for a moment we can trust at least some of the countless rave reviews from Stereophile, Home Theater, and too many other audio magazines to name - not to mention the tens of thousands of non-professional rave reviews from reasonably smart people with the best gear money can buy. Let's also assume most of those reviewers - professional and private - used 24/96 content or less throughout their evaluations (and you know they did). Here's Mr. Skeptic's question: If the quality of sound heard by those reviewers was TRULY worthy of being described as "Magnificent" "Breathtaking" "Brilliant" "INSPIRATIONAL" "Perfect" "SO GOOD, I NEVER WANTED TO TURN IT OFF" - what superior descriptions do you think they'll use to describe 24/192? Will reviewers have to invent BETTER adjectives? Will 24/192 suddenly not sound great anymore when 24,000/192,000K comes along?

 

As always, it will be interesting to see it all unfold.

 

Gary

[Audio_ELF]

Audio Elf

“Just an observation: don't you have an Asus sound card to provide SPDIF output and a DAC which is USB only”

Negative on both counts.

Sorry I'm not sure I follow you. In your configuration you posted you said (clipped relevant parts)

 

CONFIGURATION AS OF 2/14/12 @ 8am PACIFIC TIME

 

COMPUTER ($820.00)

$60.00 SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum skin reinforced plastic front panel, 0.8mm SECC body MILO Series ML03B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

$100.00 Intel BOXDH77EB LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

$46.00 G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT

$50.00 Intel Celeron G540 Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80623G540

$60.00 ADATA Premier Pro SP600 ASP600S3-64GM-C 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$140.00 3TB Internal Western Digital SATA Green Hard Drive

$40.00 ASUS Xonar DGX 5.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Gaming Audio Card

$60.00 picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit

$50.00 Playback App: JRMC v18

$9.00 USB 3.0 internal cable

$65.00 SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter

$140.00 Microsoft Windows 8 Professional 64-bit (Full Version) – OEM

Okay reading on I think you have decided to drop the Asus Xonar so thats answers the first part of my comment. But you are still talking about using optical cables yet list

 

EVERYTHING ELSE ($371.00)

$100.00 Schiit Modi DAC (sub-$300? Yes, but these have an excellent rep for sounding way beyond its price point. The designer of DTS - and a whole lot more - makes these and sells 'em direct)

The Schiit Modi DAC is USB only!!

 

You've also, I think, been talking about 24/192 which isn't supported by the Modi.

 

Eloise

 

PS. Gary, no disrespect meant, but your posts can sometimes be difficult to read with the enlarged font you choose. Best just to leave the text as default unless you want to emphasis something.

[Audio_ELF]

Sorry another comment - not sure if you've seen the Computer Audiophile Pocket Server C.A.P.S. v3 Topanga but this is a much more basic CAPS setup which may suit you better than the design you have been looking at.