How To Rip High Resolution Blu-ray Audio

I was disappointed to read in the Positive Feedback review of the NYA vol. 1 box that the recording process included down sampling to 24/96 from the initial 24/192 transfers, and then upsampled back to 24/192 for the blu ray release! Apparently the true resolution will only be 24/96 (if Positive Feedback is correct). I guess the 24/96 DVD versions will result in audio performance as good as 24/192.<br />

Thanks to Chris for figuring out how to rip from blu ray though, seems to be a lot of work!

barrows wrote:<br />

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NYA discs<br />

I was disappointed to read in the Positive Feedback review of the NYA vol. 1 box that the recording process included down sampling to 24/96 from the initial 24/192 transfers, and then upsampled back to 24/192 for the blu ray release! Apparently the true resolution will only be 24/96 (if Positive Feedback is correct). I guess the 24/96 DVD versions will result in audio performance as good as 24/192.<br />

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@barrows:<br />

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a bit more careful reading and you will understand that the 24/96 downsampling is only associated with the Plangent Processes pitch/speed restoration on the Riverboat Sessions live disc. also, GIYF.

I don't know where this information came from but it is incorrect, no offense. We worked from (and delivered back) both 192/24 and 176.4/24 versions of the dewowed and pitch-corrected masters of Riverboat. There was no downsampling here (or at Redwood as far as I know). As a matter of fact, unless the client insists otherwise we recommend and almost invariably operate at 192/24 for all work. <br />

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Jamie Howarth<br />

Plangent Processes. <br />

Hi Jamie - Very cool, thanks for the correct information.

Jamie, thanks for responding here and clarifying this. The Positive Feedback review stated that the downsampling was necessary in order to do the pitch correction. I am happy to find out that they were in error, and that you can do this process at 24/192, preserving the original resolution. As consumers, we must be wary of what is marketed to us as high resolution from the record companies, no fault of yours of course, but there have been many cases of even 16/44.1 files just being upsampled (often to DSD for SACD release). Hi Fi Plus reported that the re-mastering process for the latest Genesis box set went like this: analog-24/192-24/96 for mixing/editing-DSD for SACD release.<br />

Now, we can only hope that record companies will be explicit about revealing the nature of the recording process, and the resolution maintained throughout the process.

Here is a link to the Positive-Feedback review (very positive):<br />

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue44/young.htm<br />

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jamie, +1 on appreciation for providing correct info; the pfo assertion re plangent @ 24/96 did seem somewhat odd given other available info wrt the NYA team's transfer/mastering work (and the conversation i was fortunate to have with you back at AES SF following the Forensic Audio session )<br />

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fyi there is another published source closely-related to all-things-Neil which has this particular info incorrect (and perhaps was a contributing factor to the pfo article content?); you might wish to alert them to the error: http://www.thrasherswheat.org/2009/05/nya-question-of-moment-riverboat.html

I followed all the instructions and got a 40g wav file of the Dave Matthews disk, but I can't play the file in media monkey. When I open the file in Media Monkey it just sits there. Any ideas? Thanks.

This is brilliant. Thank you for all the hard work in uncovering this.<br />

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Question: <br />

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During the conversion process into .WAV using either tsMuxeR or eac3to, is there a potential for loss of quality? Is it a bit for bit perfect copy?<br />

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Thanks.

Make sure the LPCM rate limit is set at 192k in the Oppo menu, and Secondary Audio must be Off. <br />

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Or use HDMI. Make sure the component connected to the Oppo can actually process 192k input. <br />

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Or use the analog outputs. The internal DACs are excellent, especially on the dedicated stereo output.<br />

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If you like classical, try the 192k BR sampler from 2L called Nordic Sounds. Best recorded sound I've ever heard.

Hi Chris. I came across this thread whilst looking for info on the Dave Matthews blu-ray - nice post. I had also posted a how-to thread on this same topic over on the Linn forums (http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=2544). One issue you may come across (or may have already come across) is the limit that the wav format has of 4Gb file size. You wouldn't have run into it with the 48KHz Dave Matthews disc but you probably will with 96KHz titles (I did with John Mayer) and you almost certainly will with 192KHz titles such as Neil Youngs discs. I 'avoided' the problem with John Mayer as the main track was in two separate m2ts stream files so I did them separately. It will depend on how the main title is handled on the disc.<br />

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If you've found a way around this, I'd like to hear it. One way would be to avoid using wav and use something like RF64 format, then convert that to something that your player can handle once you've split it. I haven't tried this yet as I haven't had time to look for a decent, free RF64 editor for splitting the files. I used goldwave to split my wav files for the John Mayer disc but this doesn't do RF64 format...

Hi thodo - Thanks for the post. I kind of remember looking into the 4GB issue. I believe it's possible to use the WAV64 format to get around this. Do you know if this works?

Actually, W64 (Wave64) was what I meant to type in my post - not RF64. No I haven't tried it as I hadn't found an editor to handle W64 to do the splitting (other than Sony Soundforge which is a little out of my price range for this sort of mucking around). I found a converter to get it from W64 to flac but as I had no W64 material to play around with yet I haven't tried the converter either. Can try and dig up a link to the converter if you need it.

Have just been fiddling about with eac3to and goldwave.<br />

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Both flac and RAW PCM can be output by eac3to and neither have limitations with filesize (not from eac3to anyway).<br />

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Have tried a RAW PCM file and a FLAC file, both from eac3to, in Goldwave and it can handle them fine. Still need to test with a files equivalent to a >4Gb wav they shouldn't work. Just need to spend half a day extracting some 192kHz audio to try.<br />

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Well, I seem to have answered my own question lol...

I actually own the Neil Young blu-ray disks.<br />

Following this "How to" I got stuck here:<br />

5. ... browse to the largest m2ts file located in the newly created STREAM directory.<br />

6. ... the Tracks section of tsMuxeR select the audio version desired. <br />

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tsMuxeR is pretty useless here as the Neil Young disks contain in the STREAM folder about 300 *.m2ts files. Out of these 300 files maybe 40% contain 2 channel 24/192 audio data. In tsMuxeR you can open only one file at a time, if available you select then the 24/192 audio data for each file... you have to do this ca. 300 times. As a result you will end up with ca 0.4 x 300 = 120 files ... and you have no clue in which order to put (glue) them together.<br />

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Much more successful is the following (I am on Windows):<br />

use eac3to with a nice GUI (BD Clown). The package is freeware and can be downloaded from here: clownbd.com<br />

you don't even need AnyDVD. Let BD Clown read directly from the STREAM folder on the blu-ray disk.<br />

It's easy to setup, choose the 24/192 audio and nothing else except the chapter info. Your output is a wave (and a wav64) file as well as a text file which provides you with the chapter times (song times).<br />

The wave files for the Neil Young disks are between ca. 3.5GB and 4.4GB. You can then use a wave editor (I am using Samplitude) and the information from the chapter.txt file to create the single tracks. With Samplitude I save these tracks as 24/192 flac files. I have no problem to open a wave file (not talking about wav64), which is greater than 4GB with samplitude. I am sure, it works with other wave editors too. By the way, foobar plays wave files greater than 4GB without any problems.<br />

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eac3to (and its guis) definitely simplify the process as you can select the playlist files on the disc that then tell the gui which m2ts files go together to play the disc (for some discs this is a single m2ts file, for some its lots, like Neil Young must be). ClownBD lets you choose which playlist you want to rip (if there is only one, it just chooses it automatically which I suspect is the case with the Neil Young discs Urs has tried).<br />

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Having had a quick play around with ClownBD, one appears to have a useful feature that will spilt the audio stream for you using the chapter information (so no need to do this manually in a wav editor). It does seem to do it by creating the wav first though so not sure if that gets around the >4Gb wav file issue. Have not tried this feature myself.<br />

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Incidentally, I'd be very surprised Urs if the 4.4Gb file you created plays correctly in its entirety - I've created >4Gb files before that seemed to work but found that only part of the file worked. It is the header of the wav file that is the problem, it can only store the header info for up to 4Gb so I am guessing that any info that is in the file >4Gb has no header info for it (which am guessing could cause problems). Anyway, seems there ways to avoid the 4Gb issue anyway (e.g. extract to FLAC or RAW PCM ).<br />

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As for not needing AnyDVD for Neil Young - if this is the case then that Blu-ray disc does not have any copy protection on it, which is definitely not the norm for BDs. John Mayer's "Where the Light Is" and Foo Fighters 'Live at Webley Stadium" definitely both will not rip without AnyDVD to get around the copy protection...

AnyDVD: what I wrote in my previous post was misleading. Let me rephrase it:<br />

It is NOT necessary to "Right click the AnyDVD HD icon in the Windows system tray and select Rip Video DVD to Harddisk." It is sufficient to have AnyDVD running and active. Then you can read with BD Clown directly from the STREAM folder on the blu-ray disk.<br />

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Though there is a promising option in BD Clown (split output based on chapters), it doesn't help. I always end up with one large wave file.<br />

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I still can't find any problem with this 4.4GB (it's 4.35 actually) wave file. (Samplitude 11, Windows 7). But I will look further into this. This means I haven't yet listened concentrated from the beginning to the end. But Samplitude and foobar show the correct length. Both play at least the beginning and the end error free. Samplitude lets me split into tracks and convert to FLAC without moaning.

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I realize this is an old thread, but just in case people still follow it...<br />

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It is not necessary to have Any-DVD. There is a free program called MakeMKV that will rip the Blu-Ray to an mkv file, which you can then demux with TSMuxer. <br />

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Also, with ATI 5XXX series video cards, it is now possible to do bitperfect streaming of the HD audio (DD True-HD, DTS-MA, etc). A really good guide for this can be found here > http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/02/02/guide-setting-up-bitstreaming-with-your-windows-7-htpc-part-i/<br />

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If you want true streaming of LPCM and FLAC files (without Windows mixer interfering), see this guide > http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152520<br />

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Finally, there is another program which some may find useful, called multiAVCHD. It has a feature which will create audio-only AVCHD files - technically, it adds a still image to audio streams to create playable files of smaller size than the original BluRay. If you want to have HD audio tracks, without taking up the hdd space that the full video takes up, it's an excellent tool.

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Seems like just yesterday I was reading this thread, excited about extracting some high resolution Neil Young while waiting for my pre-order blu ray to arrive. Finally procured a blu ray drive for my computer (kept foolishly thinking that Mac Pro would get official support at some point), a Windows 7 Boot Camp partition, AnyDVD and some free time(!). <br />

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This thread (http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=2544) on the Linn forum pointed out to me the HD DVD/Blu-Ray Stream Extractor GUI for eac3to (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141829) which I found simplifies the project. It lets you identify the entire stream (as opposed to pieces thereof) and choose to only rip the audio to FLAC. <br />

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Definitely a labor of love, but it sounds great.

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