Why would USB DAC not work properly with netbook but OK with desktop?

[JonP]

Hi,

 

I have an odd problem with a Project DAC Box USB. When I plugged it into my ASUS EEE PC Netbook all the drivers for the DAC loaded perfectly OK and the device was fully recognised. But no sound whatsoever out of the DAC's analogue output when I select the DAC's USB input. I then tried it on my Dell netbook and same problem - complete silence.

 

I then plugged it into my main desktop computer and it works absolutely perfectly. I am 100% certain I had the settings correct on the Netbooks (DAC correctly selected in the Sound applet, volume checked, etc, etc). I even tried different media players (Jmedia using DirectSound and WASAPI and Windows Media Player), but there is complete silence out of the analogue output when using it with the two netbooks.

 

I then tried a second desktop computer and again the DAC works absolutely perfectly with that (as does the optical inpout which I decided to test just out of curiosity).

 

Does anyone know of a reason as to why a USB DAC might not work correctly with netbook computers whilst working perfectly with desktop computers?

 

The two netbooks are stock standard running Windows 7 Starter edition 32 bit, whilst the two desktops are running Windows 7 Premium 64 bit. I am at a bit of a loss here. I was going to return the DAC to the store as faulty, but it would be hard to describe it as such when it seems to work pefectly well on the two desktops I tried. I even tried completely reformatting the ASUS netbook just to see if that would help, to no avail.

 

[DyP]

Did you try the windows test sound (in the sound settings, context menu of the DAC device) or watch the "VU" provided by windows when NOT playing via WASAPI exclusive mode / ASIO / ...., e.g. waveOut or the test sound?

I'm just curious if the sound is actually routed to the device's input pins (in kernel streaming terms).

 

I guess it might be a problem with either USB power states (try to connect the netbook to a power supply and set the power plan to something like balanced or max perf) or some restrictions of the Starter edition (or even with USB 1.1 devices connected to a USB 2.0 hub).

 

[fmak]

Sometimes Universal Serial Bus. This is simply not a robust audio interface.

 

To say that it is 'best' to only connect for audio (as advised by some makers of usb audio devices) is to deprive those users who want to do others things on a computer whilst listening, and to turn this into a single purpose box.

 

I personally don't wear it.

 

[Old Listener]

Your DAC is probably not faulty. You just need to do a bit of troubleshooting. When you unplug a USB DAC, Windows and your music player software may change settings to use some other device.

 

1. Check to see whether the USB DAC is selected in the Windows control panel audio applet. In Xp, you would right click on the speaker icon in the tray at the right end of the start bar and choose "adjust audio properties". In the dialog that appears, click on the audio tab. If your DAC is not the default device, choose it from the drop-down list.

 

2. J. River Media Center can send audio to the default audio device you set in the Windows control panel or it can send audio to any other audio device on your PC. Check to see what default device is selected in JRMC. Click on the Player menu and choose playback options. At the top, you should see "Output mode" which you should set to "DirectSound" for now.. Just below that, click on the 3 dots next to "output mode settings'. If your USB DAC is not shown beside "Device:", chose it from the drop-down list or choose the default device (Primary Sound device and default channels.

 

3. Now try playing a music file. Do you see the indicator on the progress bar moving and the time being updated? Do you see the stereo level displays going up and down? Do you hear sound?

 

Report back after you have tried these steps.

 

Bill

 

 

[JonP]

Thanks for the replies, however as I mentioned in my initial post, I was already 100% certain I had everything configured correctly - and the things mentioned thus far constitute very basic, commonsense steps that I took as a matter of course before posting.

 

What makes this problem even more of an enigma is that after plugging the DAC into the desktops and finding that the optical and USB worked, it then subsequently worked on the netbook, despite the settings being exactly the same.

 

That being the case, the problem remains since there is no explanation that I can see for this, other than perhaps the USB interface not being as robust on the netbooks as it is on a full-sized desktop. The only difference in the second attempts to use the netbook was that I was running it purely off battery power the second time around (first time was adapter) and the DAC was positioned further away - about a metre rather than about 20cm.

 

I am therefore starting to think (given how robust the USB seems to be on the desktop) that either the netbook is intermittently faulty or perhaps the USB is not quite within the tolerances of what a "robust" USB connection should be when used with this DAC.

 

I guess I can therefore consider either replacing the USB source, or using a USB to SPDIF converter, though possibly a better quality source makes more sense.

 

Using a different DAC is not a preferred option, as I had auditioned a large number of USB DACs within my budget and did not like any of them (many sounded outright objectionable). To my ears the Project one was much better than any others I had heard up to around $1000.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi fmak - What do you consider a robust audio interface that allows one to multitask and output audio at the highest quality levels?

 

I disagree with your USB assessment. Getting any computer peripheral to function its best requires not doing other activities. Sure many things will work simultaneously but not at their best. Single purpose anything works better than a jack of all trades master on none.

 

Are you not wearing it because it doesn't fit you :~)

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Jon - A couple things come to mind here.

 

First, I read the following on the Project website:

Q: Why no audio signal from an USB source is available on RCA-out of DAC Box USB, when USB cable is connected first and then the power adaptor is plugged into mains?  

A: DAC Box USB should be connected first to mains and a few seconds later the USB cable can be connected to a PC. Doing the opposite way, synchronisation process is eventually faulty and no sound is availble via audio outputs.  

 

 

 

Second, I believe the problem has something to do with the USB bus in the netbook. Can you tell how many devices share the internal USB bus? It's usually quite a few on such netbooks. It could also be related to power output from the USB port. I have a feeling a powered USB hub would fix the issue.

 

 

 

[JonP]

Hi Chris,

 

Many thanks for an extremely useful reply. I wonder how long ago they added that information to the FAQ on the Project website? It definitely wasn't there when I last checked and the page looks like it was last updated on 4th July.

 

I definitely know that when I plugged the DAC into the desktop, it was already powered on and the USB input selected. Same story when I plugged it into the netbook after testing it with the desktop. I can't remember what I did the very first time round - the instruction manual does not go into a specific routine, so perhaps this issue has come to the attention of Project, hence the need for an additional FAQ topic. That being the case, is such a regimented connection procedure the norm for USB DACs? It seems in my subsequent testing that get this procedure wrong just once, and you have to manually uninstall the three DAC devices from Device Manager, re-boot the computer and connect it (using the procedure they outline in the FAQ) all over again. Were it me, I would not intentionally design a USB DAC that way - I would want it to be 100% reliable regardless of the particular power-up states of the DAC and the source computer.

 

Anyway, from what I can see, the only other USB device is the integrated webcam, but I never use that so I guess I can disable it in Device Manager, or see if there is some way to permanently disable it. I do also use a USB stick, but just to transfer music files I have mixed on my main computer to the netbook - and the stick drive is pulled out when I am actually listening to music.

 

I would not think that the USB DAC requires power from the USB port. It has its own 9 volt DC power supply, so I doubt it needs anything from the USB port, but perhaps you can correct me on this.

 

I have often wondered how USB is best optimised under Windows 7, given the much more complex power management features of Windows 7 compared to earlier OSes.