Why spotify/apple music sound different from Sony bravia and Apple TV 4k to my AVR

[Uni]

It's probably not a new topic, but I like to hear the comments from all of you.  I know all audio equipments, DAC, streamer can sound different.  But I don't have enough knowledge to tell why.  This is the case in my home setup:

 

Denon x3800h AVR connects to Sony Bravia A95k TV and Apple TV 4k

 

Speakers are KEF R3 (bi-amped).

 

When I use the spotify app in A95k, the music is more flat, bass is weaker and more crispy.  When the TV digital audio out set as "auto 1/2" (Output compressed audio without change), AVR displays "DD+".  Set as "PCM" (Always output in PCM), AVR displays "Stereo".  However, either mode sound the same to me.

 

When I use the spotify app in Apple TV 4K (as well as Apple music app), the music is more dynamic, full, and stronger bass.  It also sound less crispy probably because the mid and mid-low is stronger (I know spotify is lossy and Apple music is lossless, but I think it's not the discussion here).  AVR displays "Stereo".  I would say the audio quality is higher and more similar to traditional hifi system.

 

In other words, the sound signature from A95k and Apple TV are different even it's the same app - spotify.  And in the same device, that is, Apple TV 4k, spotify and apple music shares similiar sound signature.

 

I am not sure which part in the audio chain would create this difference.  Any insight is welcomed.

[ecwl]

It is possible that A95 output always converts to 48kHz while Apple TV is sending 44.1kHz to your Denon.

not sure how you can verify if that’s what’s happening. 

[Uni]

13 minutes ago, ecwl said:

I checked the info in AVR in fact.  Everything is 48k.  Moreover from my experience the 44.1k > 48k conversion is not so audible.

[Cebolla]

9 hours ago, Uni said:

In other words, the sound signature from A95k and Apple TV are different even it's the same app - spotify.

 

Not only is Spotify currently a lossy online music service, it also supplies a range of audio quality streams:

https://support.spotify.com/us/article/audio-quality/

 

 

 

Has the A95k TV's Spotify app got a setting that allows you to change the audio quality?

- If so, is it set to the highest possible quality?

- if not, how do you know what quality of audio streams the Sony TV's Spotify app is receiving?

 

Worst case, assuming you are using a Spotify Premium account, the difference in audio quality could be due to rather poor (Spotify Low quality) 24kbps lossy audio streams being played by the Sony Bravia A95k TV compared to good almost CD quality (Spotify Very high quality) 320kbps lossy audio streams being played by the Apple TV. 

 

 

[Miska]

Apple TV outputs 48k. And most TV's do that as well. The two naturally have different rate conversion filter implementation, so there are some differences.

 

In addition, AVRs usually convert everything internally to 96k or 192k. Older and/or cheaper models to 48k.

 

Reason for these is that audio bundled with video is practically always 48k family because it fits nicer with frame rates (usually fixed number of samples per frame) and HDMI video clocks. HDMI audio is clocked by the video pixel clock.

 

[SQFIRST]

As pointed and your own suspicion, the internal processing in the chain can make distinct differences in sound.

Denon x3800h shows supporting Heos. That should allow for shortest processing path with Spotify connect and may sound better than the rest. Worth a try.

[Uni]

10 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Not only is Spotify currently a lossy online music service, it also supplies a range of audio quality streams:

https://support.spotify.com/us/article/audio-quality/

 

 

 

Has the A95k TV's Spotify app got a setting that allows you to change the audio quality?

- If so, is it set to the highest possible quality?

- if not, how do you know what quality of audio streams the Sony TV's Spotify app is receiving?

 

Worst case, assuming you are using a Spotify Premium account, the difference in audio quality could be due to rather poor (Spotify Low quality) 24kbps lossy audio streams being played by the Sony Bravia A95k TV compared to good almost CD quality (Spotify Very high quality) 320kbps lossy audio streams being played by the Apple TV. 

 

 

Unfortunately this setting is not available in both the ATV4 app and Sony (Google TV) app.

[Uni]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

Apple TV outputs 48k. And most TV's do that as well. The two naturally have different rate conversion filter implementation, so there are some differences.

 

In addition, AVRs usually convert everything internally to 96k or 192k. Older and/or cheaper models to 48k.

 

Reason for these is that audio bundled with video is practically always 48k family because it fits nicer with frame rates (usually fixed number of samples per frame) and HDMI video clocks. HDMI audio is clocked by the video pixel clock.

 

hi Miska, glad to see your reply! How are you doing.

 

Yes, I aware of the 48K thing in the video world.  I agree that the two different rate conversionf filter implementation may contribute to the issue.

[Uni]

7 hours ago, SQFIRST said:

As pointed and your own suspicion, the internal processing in the chain can make distinct differences in sound.

Denon x3800h shows supporting Heos. That should allow for shortest processing path with Spotify connect and may sound better than the rest. Worth a try.

 

You are right!  I tried HeOS last night and seems it sound the best.  But playing on Sony TV/ATV4 provides a nice TV interface with the song, album art and lyrics 

[ecwl]

2 minutes ago, Uni said:

 

You are right!  I tried HeOS last night and seems it sound the best.  But playing on Sony TV/ATV4 provides a nice TV interface with the song, album art and lyrics 

I don’t use Spotify but are you using the HeOS app or the Spotify app running Spotify Connect into HeOS for this?

 

my friends keep telling me the Spotify app is very good. But I guess yeah a big tv looks nicer. 

 

 

[Uni]

5 hours ago, ecwl said:

I don’t use Spotify but are you using the HeOS app or the Spotify app running Spotify Connect into HeOS for this?

 

my friends keep telling me the Spotify app is very good. But I guess yeah a big tv looks nicer. 

 

 

Spotify app on mobile is excellent, the best among all streaming services I would say.  The big TV is just for checking what I am playing and lyrics but I still browse and control on the phone.

 

i have roon and KKBOX too.  I found roon to chromecast to Sony Bravia and then to the AVR still produce similar sound signature of Spotify on Sony Bravia.  The format is DD+.  I don’t know what Bravia is exactly doing!

[Uni]

After two days of listening, i have the following conclusion

1.  Spotify on Sony Bravia did weird thing on the sound quality.  As there's no place to change and check the streaming quality, I am wondering its not streaming 320k.

2.  Spotify/Apple music on Apple TV 4K shares similar sound signature, which is the best.  I found that this sound signature is similar to Apple Music on MacOS.  I wonder its due to TVOS/MacOS both use coreaudio.

3.  The sound quality of Spotify on the denon HEOS lies in between but its still less natural than Apple TV.