Article: Embracing Immersive Audio

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10 hours ago, fas42 said:

would be very interested in hearing a competent Atmos playback - but the odds are not good: retailers here are only interested in the home theatre thing - and I heard such a setup quite superior to what they would do, only weeks ago - which failed the 'transparency' test. And there is not the slightest hint that anyone has a home system in my region that meets the standard that say Chris would state is required

I wonder why you are spamming every thread with your rhetoric of how a good two channel stereo like your could outperform even a decent ATMOS.  And reading from video thread of yours on how to decipher the SQ of a system just by listening to an unknown recording method I envy with your ability. 
 

Perhaps, it is time that you post you own system YouTube and tell us how it sounds so superior to other system. 

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2 hours ago, fas42 said:

I'm saying that any half decent two channel setup, properly 'debugged' and optimised, can create a convincing, immersive listening experience.

I am saying that any decent man can be brainwashed by others or by their own into believing that they can even perceive 3D sound from mono setup and more so after resoldering repeatedly their poorly engineered stereo. Just saying ……😂

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1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Mono recordings trivially can give depth; the ear/brain knows what the acoustic cues mean, when a drum kit at the back of a swing orchestra is clearly well behind everyone else.

This is exactly the problem when you blindly believe in something. Firstly, most drums in recordings do not sound far away or at the back of the stage. Why? Drum recordings are often made with microphone stuck very close to them and often the use more than one so the reverbs will be minimal and since you are not present in the venue you have no clue of the size or space to precisely determine the position. Often even in live concert without visual aid you will misjudge the position. you are entitled to your believe but please do not make unsubstantiated claim about stuff beyond your knowledge or experience. Unless you can substantiate your claim by posting you own YouTube of your perfect system. Preferably before and after resoldering.  You have not even addressed that point yet. 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Thats my conundrum 😏

I use the ignore list but that’s not stopping one from commenting in my own thread and when you view the thread without signing in ignore list is visible and it is hard to ignore when…… ( censored words)

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7 minutes ago, PeterG said:

I'm not going from 2 Wilson/McIntosh channels to 12 Wilson/McIntosh channels

I would blame the marketing for this. Your main sound is still the from the front and you do not need full range high fidelity for the surround which is often additional sound unless you have a flying around the room Sinatra otherwise a reasonable quality speakers should able to convey the spatial sound good enough. For music, all the additional speakers should only produce envelopment but since we can create some fancy effect of placing the instrument anywhere then the quality of surround speakers matter. 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’m unsure which immersive albums you listen to and on which systems, but your experience is very different from mine. Plus, there is no rule book about what content should go in which channel. 
 

The Grateful Dead’s Attics of My Life, mixed by Steven Wilson, has four voices in the height channels all harmonizing. Each has its own channel. It’s stunningly beautiful. People who haven’t heard it will think it’s a gimmick. I was in that boat. Now I think it’s amazing. 
 

Immersive channels reproduce whatever the creative team wants, not just enveloping sounds. 

 Perfectly legitimate expectation of what one want to hear in a multi channel system. We do enjoy such effects. In stereo Amused to Death was reference CD for 2 channel stereo, there are sound with effects that produces sound beyond ordinary live musical experience. Nothing wrong in liking them. In fact there was an orchestra album with birds chirping. Some stereo system with low ceiling or reflective ceiling would swear that the could hear the birds flying above. In my system they are almost the same height with rest of the instruments because my ceiling is damped. Perhaps, one day we may have a Dolby ATMOS remaster which now could make the birds literally flying above and behind you and I would definitely want that system compared to the 2 channel stereo.
 

As you said, there is no rule book when it comes to studio recordings. You can make where the sound should appear and there are people like such experience. Even in simple stereo system some like big soundstage but others like smaller but intense projection of sound. I was just saying stating that getting extra similar speakers shouldn’t stop you from enjoying multichannel. Even average speakers for the surround could enhanced the sound more compared to the 2 channel sound. Not meant to offend anyone. I was just trying to convince others to embrace multichannel and not to shy away from them just because they cannot afford 12 Wilson’s.

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39 minutes ago, STC said:

should stop

 Meant to say “shouldn’t stop you”

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I think the old guards are justify to stick to whatever they think is perfect. Stereo sound is an acquired taste. It too had resistance before being accepted as the main format. I remember reading an old interview where George Martin asked why they were two speakers in the studio and when he was told they were meant for stereo sound he asked “Why would they want to do that”. 

Linn founder was against CD once and so too Neil Young before coming up with his own digital version. I think he spear headed MAD ( Musicians against digital). 
 

ATMOS will survive but I still think the main format to remain for music will always be stereo. Cheap, practical and easily setup. The majority do not care about sound. They just want music and can be happily enjoy them even with crappy speakers and MP3. 

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And I disagree that the fronts are the most important. 

Unplug the front speakers while playing multichannel music and compare with only the front speakers playing while the surround muted/unplug. You can also try the same with  a movie. 

 

While it true, some latest remastered album and specialized ATMOS music have discrete sound coming from various speakers, real music that we are familiar with are always a frontal channel experience, be it in a concert hall or jazz band in a club.

 

That doesn’t mean you don’t need the surround speakers. If you discount the discrete sound, the real function of the surrounding speaker ( it can be ATMOS or Aura3D) is to provide envelopment via reverbs delivery from the surrounding speakers. That what transforms an ordinary stereo listening to a concert hall experience. 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

For most classical and jazz recordings this is true. Morten’s recording are obviously very different, but he isn’t the norm. 
 

 

Yes, there can always be an exception.  Taking his Grammy winner for surround album, it is a kingly privilege to be surrounded by musicians. 
 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You say, “choices made for Atmos aren't as good as those that have been made previously with speaker-based multichannel formats.”

Technically, it is debatable. ATMOS is object based where individual sound is often recorded in mono and then mixed to create the spatial sound. So it is like panning a recording to place the instrument left or right in stereo. Can you really tell the difference? Does it matter? 

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2 hours ago, ARQuint said:

 

This is system for Atmos playback

Sony X1100ES Universal Player - disc transport

Apple TV 4K - Atmos streaming

Anthem AVM70 - Atmos decoding

Anthem AVM70 - DSP room correction

Amplification

  TIDAL Ferios x 2 (Front R and L)

  Pass XA 60.8 x 3 (Center and surrounds)

  Pass Aleph 0s (height channels)

Loudspeakers

  Magico M2 (Front R and L)

  Magico S3Mk2 (Center)

  Magico S1Mk2 x 2 (Surrounds)

  Magico A1 x 2 (Height)

  Magico SSub

Off-topic

 

Do you mind reporting your view of the ATMOS playback without the DSP room correction. You have to calibrate the  ATMOS setup system without the DSP and see if it makes a difference. IMHO, any form of correction with 3D Audio affects the phase and compromises the 3D presentation and since ATMOS relies on reconstruction the spatial sound by playing with level and phase based on the setup I am wondering if the room correction affects the SQ. 
 

If possible two binaural recordings of the playback would be ideal. Just remember you have to calibrate again without the DSP. 
 

Thank you.
 

ST

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1 hour ago, ARQuint said:

He's developed his own RC algorithm utilizing measurements from the same in-ear microphones that provide the information necessary to generate an XTC filter for a specific listener - a binaural perspective.

I am not sure if RC is related to XTC. I was following Choueiri’s use of impulse response to do the XTC during his days at Ambiophonics institute. His approach is slightly different compared to RACE. 
 

I gave up on RC long ago even during Stereophiles days. My approach is room treatment.

 

I am going to PM you now about the other matter. 
 

Thanks again.