Lynx vs Weiss with Pacific Microsonics 2

[xcortes]

Hi,

 

I'm new to this forum and, except for some brief experiments with a Wavelength Proton and a Macbook Pro with Amarra mini, new to computer based music.

 

I have a pretty high resolution system(both speakers and headphones). My music is all analog (vinyl and tape). I enjoy a lot master dub tapes from the Tape Project, Quinton Tapes, etc (15ips 2 tr). Therefore my bar is kind of high.

 

I've been following computer based music and this site for quite some time now since I do think that high resolution digital is the future.

 

And now I decided to take the plunge. I am now the proud owner of a Pacific Microsonics Model Two. My idea is to go with a Mac Pro with maybe 4 MB RAM and two SSDs, one for the system and the other for the media. Amarra. A Lynx AES16e card. Maybe a Jensen PC-2XR converter since my preamp is single ended and the Model Two is balanced. For starters I'll but all the HRx records. If I'm trying digital I'm going with the best.

 

What's the consensus as the noise level of the Mac Pro? I could set it in an adjacent room but I'm not comfortable with long digital cables. I could set the Model Two next too it and run long balanced interconnects of course. In any case my preference is to keep it in the same room unless there's audible noise at 3 meters or so.

 

I'd love feedback and advice.

 

Xavier

 

[flatmap]

I've compared a 2010 MacBook Pro to a headless G4 system and found no noise difference. There were overall differences, but I didn't think that noise was one of them. My mode of testing was to listen to quiet sections in unaccompanied instrument recordings. Because these two computers are so different the comparison may not be useful -- however I was most worried about the noise put out by the display and so that's what I was looking for.

 

I've now switched over to the MacBook Pro as my main music server.

 

Of the players I have auditioned, I believe the Fidelia player has the lowest noise. This was immediately evident to me when I tried it out. And note, I have never had the opportunity to try Amarra, so it may well be in the same league. However, for a fun evening's pastime, you might want to try out the Fidelia player and see if has anything to offer compared to what you have. They have something special in this terms of low-noise reproduction.

 

[souptin]

If you mean the physical noise of a Mac Pro (the tower desktop computer) compared to a MacBook, Mac Mini or iMac, then I'm afraid it's a noisy beast due to the cooling fans. I suspect that you'll want it outside your room if at all possible, or at least sit it behind some kind of acoustic shield (sounds like one of Superman's lesser known special powers)

 

[flatmap]

Oops, I see the OP wanted a Mac Pro and not a MacBook Pro. And yes, I'm pretty sure that souptin has got it just right -- that's likely to be a noisy beast.

 

I thought the question was on noise added to the signal path. Missed that one!

 

[xcortes]

yes, I was referring to physical nise. Sorry for not being clear. I suspected I would need to put it in another room but you confirm it. Shouldn't be a major issue with some careful planning.

 

[Audio_ELF]

You're alternative to a MacPro with Lynx AES16e could be MacBook Pro or MacMi I with Weiss AFI1 (or INT202).

 

I've never compared these options so no comment on relative SQ just physically they will offer you the same connection options.

 

Eloise

 

[xcortes]

Thanks Eloise.

 

An INT202 or Vesta are out of the question because they lack word clock. But an AF1I looks like a really nice option. It would certainly make my life easier vs the tower with it's inherent fan noise.

 

It would be great to know what should I expect, sound quality wise, to be the differences between a Mac Pro with Lynx AES16e vs Mac Mini with Weiss AFI1. Educated guesses are fine since I doubt many people have actually compared the two options.

 

In any case I would use Amarra, HRx or similar quality music files, SSDs, extra RAM, etc. through a very high resolution system.

 

Thanks,

 

Xavier

 

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

There is a user (manishander) of the Pacific Microsonics DAC who has (IIRC) used Weiss AFI1 and RME's equivalent of Lynx AES16. I think he's always used Windows not Mac OS X though.

 

Maybe worth asking if he can provide some input.

 

Eloise

 

PS maybe worth changing the title of your post to mention Lynx Vs Weiss and PMC DAC.

 

[xcortes]

Thanks. I'll PM Manishander.

 

And I already changed the thread title. Thanks too!

 

[manisandher]

"There is a user (manishander)...

 

Haha, I have visions of you doing a Sean Connery impersonation with my name.

 

"It would be great to know what should I expect, sound quality wise, to be the differences between a Mac Pro with Lynx AES16e vs Mac Mini with Weiss AFI1. Educated guesses are fine since I doubt many people have actually compared the two options.

 

Firstly, congratulations on the Model Two - the best digital component ever made, IMHO. But it's just a dog to interface well to a computer.

 

Your question is difficult for me to comment on as I use a PC. (I'd be more than happy to use a Mac, but only if XXHighEnd worked on it.)

 

All I can really comment on is the difference between the Weiss AFI1 vs. the RME AES-32. The interesting thing is that these interfaces do sound different, even when both are being slaved to the Model Two. The RME (and I suspect the Lynx also) provides total galvanic isolation (AES and wordclock), while the Weiss only provides galvanic isolation for the AES I/Os. I don't know how much it matters if the wordclock output from the Model Two is not galvanically isolated from the input at the interface, but maybe this is one of the reasons the two interfaces sound different. Who knows.

 

But of course, the RME (and Lynx) has to be powered by the computer power supply. I'm no expert, but this just seems like such a compromise to me. The Weiss has the advantage here, on paper at least - it has it's own power supply. But when you open it up, you see that this is just a cheap off-the-shelf switching supply. So maybe there's no real advantage after all. FWIW, I will be replacing the AFI1s cheap SMPS with a Paul Hynes supply, hopefully sometime this week. I'll let you know if I think this makes a difference.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

Mani.

 

[SteveChicago]

Hey Mani. Now that I have the AFI1, I'd be interested to hear how if at all the new PS affects your SQ. Not sure what the aim is.

 

Q

 

[manisandher]

Hi Steve.

 

I'm just completing the installation of a dedicated mains supply for my listening room. I'm trying to eliminate all switch mode power supplies from my whole system - the thought of having noise injected back into a clean mains supply by SMPSs (many of them cheap and cheerful) just churns me up inside. 'Fixing' the AFI1 power supply is easy. 'Fixing' the computer power supply is harder...

 

I'm not sure if a highly regulated linear power supply for the AFI1 would improve its sound, but I'll certainly let you know what I find.

 

Cheers,

Mani.

 

 

 

[xcortes]

Thanks Mani,

 

Additional Question. In another forum you asked for advice on how to connect the PM2 to a single ended preamp and the answer you got was:

 

"You will not have problems to drive with balanced Pacific your single-ended amp. Juts buy a good quality XLR to RCA adapter or order XLR to RCA cable and you will be set. You do not even need to care about the pins layout as it might be configurable by the unit itself. You will lose 3dB but Pacific has plenty output in its D/A section, I do not remember exactly but at 0dB digital it will swing near 7V or something like this. I do not use digital gain/attention with it."

 

I've been researching about the same and the PM2 manual says:

 

"If the audio input from the Model Two must drive an unbalanced load, use pin 2 as high, pin 1 as ground, and lift pin3 at the load or use pin 3 as high, pin 1 as ground, and lift pin 2 at the load. CAUTION: Never connect the unused low pin to ground, (pin1) as that will short circuit one side of the Model Two's actively balanced, DC coupled, output amplifier, and seriously degrade performance."

 

I'm not expert in XLR to RCA adapters or cables but I know that at least some DO CONNECT pin 2 or pin 3 to ground. I'll make my own so that's not a problem but anyone using adapters should make sure they leave the unused pin lifted.

 

What did you end up using?

 

Thanks again!

 

Xavier

 

[manisandher]

Hi Xavier. Yes, I was connecting the Model Two to a Berning Siegfried amp, which only has single-ended inputs. I made up my own interconnects and simply followed the instructions in the manual:

 

XLR end - pin 2 hot, pin 3 cold and pin 1 as ground

RCA end - pin 2 hot, pin 3 lifted (i.e. NOT connected to ground) and pin 1 as ground

 

This works absolutely fine. But just a word of warning - don't use these same interconnects with any other equipment to convert from balanced to single-ended.

 

The comment that Romy (from other forum) made about switching the hot pin is correct though - the Model Two allows you to select pin 2 or pin 3 as hot.

 

Mani.

 

[manisandher]

SteveChicago said, "Now that I have the AFI1, I'd be interested to hear how if at all the new PS affects your SQ."

 

I've installed the new new PS (transformer and regulator) into the AFI1 and I'm pretty certain the sound has improved quite a bit. I say "pretty certain" because along with a new PS for the AFI1, I've also just had a dedicated mains circuit installed for my listening room, so it's not easy knowing what is contributing to what. When I have some time, I will put the upgraded AFI1 up against the regular RME AES-32. In the past, I've liked certain aspects of both interfaces and have always found it difficult to choose between them. If the AFI1 is clearly better now then this must be down to the new PS.

 

I'll let you know if I think this was $400 (plus a couple of hours of my time) well spent.

 

Mani.

 

[astrotoy]

Having known Xavier from another Forum, I wanted to share with all of you what I shared privately with him.

 

First, my adventure into this area began almost two years ago, when I attended the CA Symposium in the Summer of 2009 in Berkeley, looking for the Amarra system which was being touted (by Amarra) as the best way to do very high quality rips of vinyl to digital (I am doing this at 192/24). The most important discovery I made at the symposium was that a great consultant, in my case Tim Marutani, was the best way to sort through all the choices and changes occuring in the high end digital world. As a result of this, I was guided through a process of evaluating several of the best high end ADACs, various software choices, and computer configurations - in a massive day long shootout at my home. I was able to have the finalists in my home for several months each - testing them in my system. At the end of the journey, I wound up with the best sounding system I heard - but not the most user friendly (not like iTunes). The system is very quiet (no fans) and it actually is fairly user friendly to rip files, not quite so in play back. It isn't cheap, but given the extent of my project (ripping close to 10,000 records and 1000 prerecorded tapes, all in real time at 192/24) my labor is the most expensive part of the project. (I also can play various 44/16, 44/24, 88/24, 96/24, 176/24, and 192/24 files that I have purchased or ripped from my CD collection.) Being retired helps.

 

The System chosen is the PM Model Two (which Tim found for me) connected to fanless Zalman cased PC running XP Pro and Pyramix Version 7 software with a Mykerinos card and two 128GB solid state drives.

The runner up was Sound Blade with a Lynx Card on a Mac Pro G4 running Tiger. When I was using the Mac, I played back the files through Amarra.

 

Tim also introduced me to Claude Cellier, CEO of Merging Technologies (Pyramix and Mykerinos), Jonathan Reischbach (CEO of Sonic Solutions - Amarra and Sound Blade), our own Chris C, and hired Paul Stubblebine and Michael Romanowski - top mastering engineers to assist in the project. They have all been to my home to listen to my system and help me choose the proper equipment. Tim also recommended Art Kelm who had my power source rewired to 230V 3 phase to feed his massive Ground One system which now powers all my equipment, which is for the first time dead quiet except for the faint tube rush from my preamps and amps. I even had some equipment custom made for my needs - Dan Schmalle (Doc Bottlehead) designed a tube phono preamp with variable EQ for RIAA and non RIAA LPs and balanced output to feed the Model Two. Scott Rust built some custom switches which allows me to go between my two channel and 5.1 channel systems - using the same amps, main speakers and subwoofer. BTW, I am using balanced to unbalanced cables similar to those mentioned above to feed my unbalanced preamp.

 

All in all, having a top notch consultant who has guided but not directed me, advising me many times that the industry was not yet ready for what I wanted and that I should wait, has made me feel comfortable each step of the way. If you are like me and not an expert in this brave new digital world, then a consultant like Tim can make a real difference. I have been a hobbyist for 47 years - since I was an 18 yo freshman in college. This has been the most complex system addition I have ever made.