I have had it with Roon, their lack of support, their user forum, and it's users...

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I would sure like to read the OP's thread over there (maybe I missed the link).  I have seen a lot of requests for many things on that forum w/o "issue" and there are plenty of people that rip the product daily, maybe they too are all banned.  I mean it doesn't seem any different than most other forums in so far as a'holes, the noise makers etc..    There have been some epic threads here. 

 

Dunno, maybe I just don't spend a ton of time there and or keep scrolling through the noise

 

Again there are indiv that defend to ridiculous and childish lengths their choices, setups, products they use and claim none better and am right you are wrong, but that's pretty much every forum?  I suppose some have more than other forums.

 

I sympathize with the OP's predicament and when one gets into a situation when all of a sudden their audio setup/products are either not working, or producing sub optimal results, one would expect its only logical to seek assistance / provide feedback.  If that's met with difficulties and a'holes I would be pissed as well.  Frustrating for sure. 

 

I have tried so many times to get audirvanna (trial) to work, and have reached out in different forums and although did receive some things to try it still doesn't work.  I only mention this in the context of how frustrating it is to be sort of "stuck"

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51 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Letting random internet people offer your support is a pretty terrible way of conducting business because it ends up boiling down to whatever the prevailing groupthink is, and it shows the developers lack of consideration for their product. I have tried getting support there, jumped through all their hoops, offered all the requested information, only to have them blame my network and say that Roon "works differently from other programs" Which I guess is all of them because the only one having issues is Roon... I have no network issues that aren't caused by user error. It's robust and works perfectly and there isn't a single piece of software that doesn't work as intended on it. Except Roon because the official word is, it works differently... That's a them problem, not a me problem. I was once told that they would remote into my Roon and see what the problem was... that was ~6 months ago and I have not heard a peep back.

 

They deleted my thread and I received a nasty email from an admin. Apparently I am just supposed to bend over and take it when the group decides the software is perfect and I have the audacity to suggest there is room for improvement.

 

edit: The problem I was having that caused them to say they would remote into my system and log its activity to see what was going on, it has stopped happening. So... they probably saw the problem, fixed it, and decided to keep their mouths shut about it after blaming everything they could on my end.

 

That sucks and for the money spent, one would think much better interaction to be had.

 

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28 minutes ago, Pappy Boyington said:

I've suspected this as well.  At least it was fixed...if Roon wants to be stealthy and fix things while rejecting blame at least that is better than denying the problem entirely.  

 

I think the issue is more nuanced.  And in Roon's defense there are a lot of users who don't really know what they're doing with digital audio and it's probably not unreasonable to want to validate that the software is being used "correctly." I also think that Roon's server-streamer model is sometimes drastically misunderstood by some users that want to use tweaks that make sense with other architecture but not Roon.  

 

BUT, it's also very clear that there are many power users who know plenty of about digital audio, networking, computers generally, etc.,  and want to use Roon to its full advertised functionality and cannot because of various nits and bugs, some of them pretty significant.  

 

I think a balanced view of Roon is critical.  They are trying to create something new, unique, and different relative to digital audio, and in many respects it is a fantastic and creative product.  If I had to live without it, I'd be bummed, and it would take a good chunk out of what I have been able to build in my man-cave.  But that doesn't let Roon off the hook for the clear bugginess of each release nor that they have ignored some issues for a good long time.  And some of their decisions are just real head scratchers - lack of folder access being one, and their choices on query logic for searching tags and genres being another.  They seem to want to prove to users that their way is better rather than giving users what they want...I can't say that is right or wrong as much as more extreme than most products I've used. 

 

In general, I have to be pro-Roon.  They've built something you can really enjoy.  But it's a mixed experience for sure, and I have already "signed off" on their forum for having Support (not the Moderators) edit my posts to remove references to issues with the software.  Being moderated for breaking forum rules is a fact of life on the Internet...having one's posts modified to mean something different is another thing entirely, and totally inappropriate IMHO.

Excellent and thoughtful statements.  I particularly like  the "Balanced View", which I suppose could be said about most things.

 

Sort of stating the obvious - If you are a user that struggles endlessly with bugs and the like, your experience is gonna suck.  If everything is working just fine and has for a long time, never had to deal with their support etc.. that perspective is obviously different then the former. 

 

How one gets through a situation (bugs, quality) with their support and forum users/responses, I guess pretty much forms your opinion experience with said product.

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2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Understood completely.
 

I’m overlooking several issues that bug me, but I’ve come to accept them from the Roon team. They have their way of running their company, and I guess it’s take it or leave it. 
 

Competition is good. We need more competition. 

I'm sure there is a product in the wings / right around the corner that some company has basically encapsulated everything roon (product, support, architecture, good, bad, ugly), that may be able to capitalize on roon's shortcomings.  Will be interesting for sure.

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3 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Its not just the money spent on the Roon License, its the money spent on a server and the parts, the time and effort building it, the time spent learning linux, etc... Luckily, the hardware is still useful and I can continue to use Roon for casual listening and for previewing albums to buy while I use HQPlayer, or Euphony to playback music when I want maximum fidelity.

Yep, I to purchased a new computer and one internal large capacity HD with its soul purpose of core duties only.  Which meant I had to re-learn linux, build it up, move all music off NAS to new core servers internal drive etc...  I have a dedicated wkst that runs HQP which then sends to naa / optical rendu.  So yeah totally get it, not a 10min ordeal by any stretch.

 

I really want to try euphony,  but its just a time thing

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1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Any reason why you did it the hard way ? Wouldn’t ROCK on a NUC or a Sonictransporter be good enough ?

And if heavy HQplayer processing is your requirement, should that be done on same computer as Roon ?

(I use HQplayer on my old Sonictransporter i5, but PCM only). 

Wasn't really the hard way and was a planned move

- ROCK has some limitations (I don't recall at the moment) and wanted to run Ubuntu server (headless)

- I didn't want a NUC, for sev reasons, one being couldn't add a large capacity HD

- I already have a high end wkst carved out for HQP duties running Server 2019.  The computer I got for core duties only isn't suited for HQP and PCM ->DSD

 

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7 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

I'm running Roon Server, HQPlayer Embedded on HQP OS and an NAA all on separate machines.

 

Would you (guys) expect that I'd get better results by removing Roon? Specifically, I mean running HQP Desktop to my NAA? Or should isolating Roon to its own server minimize or eliminate any negative SQ impact from Roon?

That's how I run it:

1. roon core on Ubuntu server which is a small form factor i7-9700 with a NVMe for the DB and one large capacity HD for music (in Utility room)

2. HPQ on high end wkst on server 2019 (in Utility room)

3. OpticalRendu as naa > to DAC (fiber is run from network rack to listening room)

 

Not sure how much roon influences (HQP) in this type of config being everything is "separate".  Dunno.  I've been tempted to get a fiber nic and a PF or jcat XE usb card and install in the wkst (#2), move it to listening room and connect it to DAC.

 

A lot of options I'm evaluating at the moment.

 

 

 

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On 7/7/2021 at 9:59 PM, AudioDoctor said:

edit: My server has been up for 1 day and 5 hours, it is using 9.5GB of RAM in total and Roon is using 3GB by itself. However, RAM usage isn't the problem, it's the background processing that causes a loss of sound quality.

Interesting comparison here and I know it doesn't matter in the context of this thread. This is snapshot of the resources on my Ubuntu core (single machine and its only purpose is core).  Local library (4500~ albums) and some qobuz streamed albums "added".

 

Its on 24/7 and although is shows uptime 2 days (because I upgraded to latest roon build and rebooted), I know the mem usage will go up (I don't monitor it very often) but if I recall, the last time I checked total usage was around 3-4GB.  That's prob after several weeks uptime.  I'll have to check back in a week or so.  I have read many references to mem leaks and the like and don't doubt it exists. 

 

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23 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

While Roon was playing music throughout the house...

 

 

That is interesting.  Although I don't know what's "normal" be it roon, euphony, jriver etc..  It does seem very high usage. 

 

I haven't used roon (core computer) to play music for yrs.  Being I have a separate HQP wkst actually pushing tunes to the NAA, my core just does DB duties only.🤷‍♂️

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On 9/3/2021 at 6:10 PM, jvvita said:

30 security cameras

Ahem, 30?😱  Do you have them in the bathrooms and closets too 😀

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5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Just had my Roon ROCK restart Roon Server, not the ROCK itself, while I was listening to music. A nice added feature :~)

Are you using a NAS/Docker setup?

[Foggie]

I understand the plight of one having a poor experience or whatever the case may be.  Everyone's experience and use case will differ without question. 

 

I haven't been in that position where everything roon sucks - the people, the product, the support etc..  When you are in the camp that has a bad experience that gets voiced I suppose.  As well as the opposite, where things appears to be running smoothly and all is good.

 

Which of these scenarios one identifies with I suppose determines the path one takes as it where. 

 

I have large local library and that is important for me to maintain and have a been using HQP for quite some time in roon because that config suites me and my use case (was a user of HQP before roon).  SQ differences (in any product) are going to be extremely personal and user system dependent and requires the individual to come to their own conclusion, not what the internet says IMHO.

 

Obviously the streaming model isn't going away and with HQP introducing streaming that is pretty darn cool, which I will definitely be evaluating more and more.  Although my streaming footprint pales in comparison to my local lib, so streaming hasn't been a priority for me.  That will prob change as time goes on, but the current model sucks in so many ways.  Nothing comes close to managing your library like roon, IMHO, but there are always other options.....