Time Out: How Dave Brubeck Changed Jazz

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Jazz is so diverse that it does not really makes sense to claim an album as one of  the "greatest" and "most  influential". However, when applied to "Time out" it becomes comical. You'll be hard pressed to find  musicians who claim that Brubeck was influential, and he is rarely mentioned in jazz criticism. That does not mean you can't enjoy the music. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

It's also possible that some musicians and "criticism" suffers from prejudice against White Jazz musicians. Brubeck might not have been as much of an innovator as some think, that doesn't mean he didn't make some high quality music.

In addition, anyone who can get real Jazz a larger audience  and greater exposure has done a service to the music.

 

Perhaps, but there are plenty of white jazz musicians who achieved critical praise:  Bix Beiderbecke, Django Reinhardt, Benny Goodman, Pee Wee Russell, Woody Herman, Mel Powell, Zoot Sims, Art Pepper, Stan Getz, Gerry Mulligan,  Bill Evans, Gil Evans, and many others...

 

These debates on race are a little sterile when it comes simply to music appreciation, which should really be color blind. Coleman Hawkins admired Pablo Casals, Ella Fitzgerald the Boswell Sisters, Ray Charles and Charlie Parker dug country music, etc... 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

7 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

In fact, there are two opposing schools of thought. One argues that jazz improvisation must be based on the historic African-American tradition, the other is based on the thesis that improvisation is largely free from tradition and can draw its inspiration from anywhere - a widely documented dispute between Wynton Marsalis and Keith Jarrett. Accordingly, adherents of the former view can have a claim against any white musician.

 

It is a bit limiting to think of Jazz only as an improvisatory music. Also, there is just as much improvisation in Rock as in Jazz. But that's another topic. I love this quote of Coleman Hawkins, when asked by a reporter for advice to young musicians:

 

"If they think they are doing something new they ought to do what I do every day. I spend at least two hours every day listening to Johann Sebastian Bach, and man, it's all there. If they want to learn to improvise around a theme, which is the essence of jazz (adding blue notes), they should learn from the master. He never wastes a note, and he knows where every note is going and when to bring it back. Some of these cats go way out and forget where they began or what they started to do. Bach will clear it up for them".

 

Had America not been so segregated for so many years, this whole question would probably be viewed very differently.  For many years, bands could not even be mixed (they wouldn't be able to tour the South otherwise), they were playing in different venues, to different audiences. High paying jobs were reserved to white musicians (ex: studio sessions for radio), muscian's unions were segregated, etc... 

 

There's an excellent documentary on Count Basie  which highlights some of these aspects (though it is not the central theme). There is also an interesting segment talking about the  "radical"  movements in the late 60s accusing Basie and his wife of being "Uncle Toms" - simply because they were more "integrated" (i.e. mixing socially) while his wife had in fact been very supportive and active in civil rights. So things were not simple in those days (though I say this as the Chauvin trial is unfolding...).

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

16 minutes ago, firedog said:

??????

 

 ?????? 

Why are you surprised? 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

31 minutes ago, firedog said:

Because most recorded Rock music has very little improvisation. Even solos are often meticulously recorded and re-recorded. 

 

Based on that definition, there's lot of jazz with little improvisation as well. 

Anyway, none  of this is relevant to Dave Brubeck, who was the subject of the thread.