Will tube preamp add?

[motberg]

11 hours ago, al2813 said:

happy to audition a DAC with a better pre amp capability.  Can you recommend one?

Gustard A20H - if you can get an audition with return capability. This is smooth, detailed, modern and sufficiently dynamic. To my ears, more analog in presentation and more natural in tone than the D50.

 

But I think your speakers deserve something exceptional in a DAC, If you are using USB, from what I have read the Schiit Bifrost 2 may be a good match to the KEF's. Also imho this DAC represents some really impressive technology, being multi-bit and user up-gradeable. Possible end-game for many audiophiles, but there are some limitations such as no DSD input.

 

I guess you are using digital volume control currently. Are you using Roon volume control (I hear that is pretty good), or the D50s volume control? How much attenuation are you applying? ( the DAC or software may say something like -18 db..) . This info may help the more qualified folks here make some suggestions.

 

Tubes preamps are nice, but truly can be an expensive rabbit hole, and it still is nice to have a solid state option available also, such as the Schiit Freya + offers. That way, you do not really need to have the perfect set of tubes, as you always have a good SS section to fall back on. I have been looking at tube preamps for the past few years also, and it seems most pure tube pre's neutral enough to be a "daily driver" are around/over 2000 USD.

 

I have a D50 also (with LT3045 regulated LPS). In my system, the D50 was really nice (almost tubey) in the vocals, but low-mids kind of artificial, and highs not as refined as the A20H. If you haven't yet, you can try a battery power supply with the D50, I think in your system you may hear a change.

 

I have a nice tube buffer (Black Ice by Jolida - Foz SS-X), but do not think it would be a good match with a D50. It does not have a bypass or volume control, but is amazingly clear and open with a vintage RCA clear top (very good with the stock new Tung-Sol tube also). The Foz with a clean passive preamp offers a tube sound much more to my preferences than a few other economy tube preamps I have had in my system recently.

[motberg]

Opposing viewpoint on the idea to learning recording methodology.

I would think the artist usually wants the listener to experience their work as a finished piece, not dissect it into its parts.

 

The absolute worst thing I did in my life's audiophile endeavors was to start a DAW based project studio after I left my last band and work up some original songs. After a few years of that, every time I listen now I am considering the process as much as - or more than - experiencing the artists' solicited emotional response.  I guess a little understanding of the recording environment (year, players, culture, etc.) is OK, but personally I would not recommend to learn the process to the point where you are wondering what the mixing engineer screwed-up that resulted in the piece not being well layered.

[motberg]

13 hours ago, al2813 said:

 

a few posts higher someone asked me for the attenuation level on the DAC. I am ranging from -24-25db to -15db. 

 

The way I understand things, -25 db should be audibly acceptable given a competent software volume control implementation (whether inside the DAC or written into the control software) ....but I think this could actually be a bit more complex..

 

To me, that means that for most DAC's you should be able to run direct as you have been and attenuate in software without audible degradation. Maybe someone with a more technical background could comment additionally. Some cool info in this thread (pros and cons of preamps) if you have not yet seen it...

 

 

[motberg]

3 hours ago, al2813 said:

you are right. I got to the same conclusion last night. My DOSTM is a DSD ripped from the 2003 EMI SACD and indeed sounds amazing. Love Over Gold is streamed from Qobuz. I am getting the feeling they are using a master which is not that great. I will try to see if I can purchase a better master. 
 

 

My Love Over Gold is a SACD rip a friend did for me a long time ago. Sounds fantastic, one of my favorites...

 

I hate to mention this, but somewhere in one of these groups a few months ago I posted my impressions of the D50, and 2 comments I included were something like; acoustic guitars had a slight plastic sheen (first noticed on "The Clap" by Yes) and most bass guitar elements sounded like they were recorded by a cheap DI direct to the mixing board. So it could be your separation issue is partially DAC based, but should not be a severe as what you are mentioning. Standing by itself the D50 I thought was fine, much better than most other DAC's I have heard in that price range, and these attributes were only noticeable in comparison to my reference DAC at the time which was over 2000 USD and used 8 x PCM1704UK chips in NOS mode.

 

More likely room treatments, chair/speaker location, or the file quality will fix this. Love Over Gold is recorded and mixed so well, I would not think a professionally done master would do so much damage, but may be some other type of file problem. Looking forward to your impressions when you try another source for Love Over Gold.

 

 

[motberg]

14 hours ago, al2813 said:

wow this other thread is yet another wealth of info (and some heated discussions). I believe I did visit it at some moment but not sure. 
 

one of the issues I have in my corner of Belgium is that the number of good HiFi stores is limited indeed. I don’t think any of them allows loaners (if anyone is from Belgium and knows a store that does that please PM me). Than online sites do allow returns but you get a relatively short time frame to do it (14 days). So am trying to get some recommendations and make more informed choices. My appetite for trying another DAC is also because this is my first proper one. I had a Bluesound Node 2 which I used as DAC for quite some time but the D50s blew it out of the water. Then came Roon and I ditched BluOS all together. 

I suggest you also try Euphony Stylus vs. Roon - free to try for a month and very easy to setup...

I never used Roon, but recent comments iiuc are it is going downhill for audio quality..

I personally would try software (and any possible room/speaker/chair adjustments) before a new DAC or preamp test...

 

 

[motberg]

18 hours ago, bluesman said:

I want to know if there’s a difference between 30 minutes in a 325 degree oven and 45 minutes in a 275 degree oven........and if there is, am I able to taste it?  
 

I’m more than a little surprised to find audiophiles who don’t want to know if what they think they hear is there, how it got there if it is, and if it is but they don’t hear it - why not?  I can’t imagine that such knowledge and interest could interfere with the enjoyment of music.
 

Chacun à son goût.

Maybe we think of our music more like a David Copperfield performance.. 😉

[motberg]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:56 PM, al2813 said:

 

I am going to try another DAC - mainly because I could use an extra one anyway. I miss a DAC in my living room right now. 

I am currently hesitating between the topping D90 and the Gustard A22 which costs more, but seems to have a much better output stage implementation. 

 

 

 

If you like studio prog rock, rock, jazz, pop, I think an r2r DAC should be considered as an option, to me r2r offers a more natural, lifelike, dynamic presentation for these genres vs. my limited experience with AK and ESS. I also get the impression a competent r2r offers better "drive" for a tube preamp. I think it was someone at Schiit who refers to "plankton" - pretty good description in what I noticed missing in my 2 AK4497 DAC's and a few ESS models. Lots of options, but I am looking at this or the flagship Audio-GD stuff... or maybe something used.... maybe next month will be able to pull the trigger...