Is CD still your only option for popula music ?

[fredster]

I have spent hours looking through this and other sites looking for a source of 16/44 downloads of newly released popular music but failed miserably. The C.A.S.H list here is a prime example, it seems to me the only music available with a reasonable choice is classical, jazz or 70s rock. Is there any sign of the mass market waking up to even just CD quality downloads let alone high res ?

If there are sites out there but I just havn't found them yet a list would be a massive help.

 

[Eric2]

Hi Mark,

 

The choice is improving. HD Tracks is a good example of this but buying the CD and ripping it yourself seems to be the only way 99% of the time.

 

I noticed some bands are allowing you to download new releases direct from their website but sadly more than not the quality is still compressed to mp3.

 

[fredster]

I guess it will be a long and slow process to drag the masses away from quantity over quality. We are like the food industry but with only 5 Michelin star venues and they only sell 2 dishes !

 

[AudioWav]

We recently talked about this on the other listing that spoke of iTunes big "Beatle surprise". I won't repeat here but I agree with what you're all saying. The other angle to this is for them to answer "what will sell the best". I think there are certainly more non-audiophiles than audiophiles as evident by what the markets bring to the consumer. Even the old version of Napster back in the day may have been "fun", but holding everything else constant (legalities, etc.) I don't think anyone ever stopped and thought about the quality of sound they were getting. It was more about rushing outside to tell friends "hey look I've got 10,000 songs on my player" - much like it is today except now it's 99 cents at a time or a subscription. Granted some of that is certainly "listenable" but I'd much rather pick up a CD (new/used) and rip it myself - then save the CD to rerip when the next big format comes out.

 

[wappinghigh]

This is THE thread. I agree with everything that has been said. Its as if all the computer audio experts are asleep at the wheel. I've been absent from this forum for over a year, and nothing...And I mean NOTHING has changed on the available content front. Yeh..there might be a couple more HD downloads from artist sites like Harrison and other "exclusives", like HD tracks's Frampton, but what a YAWN. I mean is the music industry for real on this issue? Available content continues to just trickle out at a nauseatingly slow rate...

 

This is by far and away THE most disappointing aspect of the entire Computer Audio experience IMHO. Someone can spend a fortune on the latest 24/192 audiophiles DAC...to play something like the entire new LINN $3.5K catalogue "offer"... No disrespect...but " big deal" .This is NOT going to be a huge thing for 99.999% of the population! That's for sure. Arguably, right now, there isn't one new artist or tape transfer that I'm interested in at 24/96....let alone 24/192.

 

It is a constant source of amazement to me that recording studios and labels can pay a fortune in time and effort to secure the major musical acts of this day, have access now to fantastic 24/192 interface gear like the Metric halo...for less than say 5 grand....yet somehow are unable to actually offer the public quality digital recordings. And for catalogue content, well they also hold all the analogue tapes right? So what exactly is stopping them from rereleasing ALL prior recordings in 24/192. ..... a couple of hundred guys with a Mac, some decent old tape real's and a Metric Halo, could knock this over before Christmas. Well maybe not...but you get my drift.. I mean humans have just sequenced the entire DNA genome.

 

CD sales are in decline, so no explanation here. Can someone PLEASE explain what is going on? !!

 

Maybe audiophiles. Just maybe It's not just the the quality of what you are listening to, but the ART in the song and the music... and the convenience to play it when and where you want. So perhaps the hifi manufacturers should relook at things and offer hi fi quality jitter free dacs in portable, networkable music players... Forget about ultra heavy DACs that are hardwired to computers. Just a thought

 

Now, Im sorry for the rant, and not meaning to be the Grinch who stole Christmas, but the whole music industry should take a good hard look at itself IMHO. So with this in mind I'm tempted to hold onto my cash until some REAL breakthrough products and services arrive. Like A 24/192 iTunes store, a 24/192 Rhapsody service and a 24/192 ultra low jitter iPod and equivalent Sonos zone player

 

 

 

[Bwilson1]

At this point yes it is.

 

I only acquire CDs because for ALL of the music I listen to this is the only way to obtain the highest quality (16/44.1). I then rip these discs to Apple Lossless and use a six year old Roku M1000 (can be had on *Bay for 100 USD)to output bit-perfect (yes it does) PCM to an outboard DAC.

 

I have not even considered attempting to replace the Roku even though it is limited to Redbook resolution. Why ? For the EXACT reason that you bring up in this thread.

 

There is not a SINGLE title that I have yet seen available in a resolution higher than redbook that is of interest to me. Not one. And I do not believe that there will be anytime soon.

 

When I can get a hold of the Village Green Preservation Society, Aurthur, Skylarking, Disintegration, Life's Rich Pageant, Pleased to Meet Me, etc, etc in anything higher than Redbook I will immediately upgrade my digital front-end to accomodate. I am not holding my breath.

 

What I worry about is the time "after CD". My worry is that when CDs go away we will be left with exactly what we have now: lossy downloads.

 

I agree with another poster: this is THE thread that in my mind everything associated with Computer Audio is hinged upon.

 

[bottlerocket]

I always point to the John Mellancamp, Life, Death, Love and Freedom disc as the clearest example of the way forward. It came as two discs, a standard CD and a DVD with 24/96 data files and mp3 data files at the same price as a CD. I got a built in back up, a CD for my car, and the data files for my Mac and Ipod in on simple package at a reasonable price. Make this "after CD" and everyone will be happy.

 

 

 

[DavidL]

are in a tiny minority. The fact is that the great majority of 'music lovers' who have 'advanced' to the latest technology (i.e. downloads) from awkward physical media (i.e. CDs) have gone to lower quality mp3s or AACs but cannot hear any loss in quality because of their inadequate replay systems (e.g. iPod docks with speakers).

 

The message I take from this situation is that we should all make an effort to educate our acquaintances about the additional quality and pleasure that can be had from music downloaded at CD-quality. Practically anyone who listens to mp3s will have access to a computer so they could rip a CD to a lossless format. When they hear this via an entry-level hi-fi system (DAC+amp + speakers) I'm sure many will opt for a better replay system.

As regards the repertoire available for CD downloads, there is a very simple (if slightly time consuming) solution: buy the CD and rip it! Never has life been so wonderful in terms of value-for-money music available on CD. Not only is there heavy discounting of new releases but there are massive numbers of re-issues of classic performances. Multi-disc sets are especially good value, particularly for classical repertoire. We have never had it so good!

 

While we should also be praising pioneers like Linn for offering higher resolution music in this environment, my current focus is getting the best out of CD quality by investing in the best DAC I can afford.

 

Enjoy the music

 

David

 

[Desk Jockey]

For those who have made any significant investment in computer audio, the availability of high resolution music is the 800lb gorilla in the room. Financially, I get that music companies, record labels and distributors have a difficult time rationalizing the ROI of high resolution music. The increased investment may not be the big issue compared to that lack of consumers to buy it when it's available. Frankly, the available market does warrant the investment in high resolution digital music when viewed from a traditional business perspective. Like most of you, I hope more genres and titles of high resolution music will be available in the next few years.

 

Meanwhile, nothing is preventing a person from making high resolution digital files from vinyl. Even though vinyl does not have unlimited titles, it far exceeds titles available in high resolution downloads. HDtracks recently released Steely Dan's Gaucho in 24/96. This allowed a comparison in MP3, 16/44, 24/96 and a needle drop 24/96. While not the best sounding of the four formats, the needle drop came in a strong second. Frankly, I have owned the LP for a couple of decades (pre bar code) so results may have improved with a fresher pressing.

 

It would be great if there was a robust library of high resolution tracks commercially available for download. However, there are no signs of that changing significantly in the near future. The needle drop experience has been very encouraging and opens the door for another sources of high resolution music. Converting vinyl in to high resolution files, while not optimum, rationalizes the expense of the hobby, adds to the technical challenge/fun of the hobby, and helps keep the mind off of the lack of high resolution downloads.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Erwin S]

It's a trading place for LP and CD, but I use it mainly to find info about CD's I ripped so I can add metadata and album covers. Very good for alternative Rock music, but other music also!

 

And you can purchase downloads from many albums in 3 flavors: 192 kbps MP3, 320 kbps MP3 and full WAV (redbook 16/44,1)

 

Here's just one example, but you need to browse the site for yourself:

http://www.discogs.com/digital?q=gossip&ev=sd

 

This is a great resource!

 

[TimH]

Completely agree with Mark's original post regarding frustration finding 16/44 downloads. There have been a couple of excellent posts here expressing the same frustration with finding high res downloads, but with all respect, I think a lot of us are very frustrated that it's hard to just find 16/44, much less high res.

 

One thought I've had is that perhaps it's just a matter of time and demographics. For whatever reasons, Napster and then iTunes really took over the listening habits of a whole generation - those now in their 20's and 30's. And that meant lossy mp3's and earbuds. I think it's really interesting to see that in mass market advertising there are now more and more images of young people in full-on headphones instead of buds and there is a growing market for iPod docks for home stereos and streamers. Perhaps once that generation (yes, I'm an old fart) gets more experience with different music genres and more disposable income for better hi-fi gear, the demand for at least CD quality files will increase to where someone (probably the great and mighty Jobs) with provide that product.

 

In the meantime, rather than throw up our hands and complain (which is nonetheless great therapy), does anyone have any ideas for how we and others like us can let our desires be known? Chris, are there any trade associations of dealers or webmasters like you that could do markets studies and/or communicate with the music sellers out there?

 

I will say that I occasionally buy an album here or there from the current 16/44 outlets like HD Tracks and individual artists' websites, even if I'm marginally interested in the content, mainly to vote with my dollars.

 

Happy Holidays everyone!

 

The_Other_Tim

 

 

 

 

 

[bottlerocket]

Don't forget Rhino. They had a rocky start, well documented on this site, but maybe they've worked the bugs out. They have the best selection of music I like in CD quality downloads.

 

[TimH]

Hey bottlerocket, yes, a good reminder. However, as you referred to, I tried to do a digital order from Rhino in September and failed miserably. It just kept having technical problems. Eventually got a refund. Like you said, maybe they've since gotten better. Really too bad, since I agree the catalog is the best of what's out there and I was pretty excited when they started. At least perhaps it's a sign that bigger vendors are starting to notice the market.

 

The_Other_Tim

 

 

 

[wappinghigh]

Maybe I'm daft.

 

Over on another thread, there is talk of the fibre connections put down by all the studios over recent years. Miles and miles of it. And Studios must have other large amounts of capital tied up in other high tech gear. Yet we all know there are now $5-6K (which is dirt cheap for studios anyway) AD converters available more than capable of doing the 24/192 job right now!

 

So what the heck is actually stopping them? Its not bandwidth. We know it's not storage costs as they are plummeting. They have stopped selling CD's. They now have several digital music stores now available to sell their stuff....

 

I simply don't get it why they aren't moving more quickly to high def downloads....

What the heck is wrong with the music industry right now?

 

Can someone PLEASE give me a logical and rational explanation

 

 

[dsnyder]

Howdy "The_Other_Tim",

 

+1 for voting with dollars. I do the same thing and hope that everyone else here does too. Besides being regular customers of high resolution DRM free music vendors like HDtracks, L2, iTrax, Linn, and (soon) Bravura, and the artists' sites, I think that we can help establish this industry through education.

 

One of my goals this year is to host music appreciation events at our neighborhood clubhouse and/or in our home. I hope to expose friends and neighbors to the joy that can be theirs if they elevate their listening to the playback of recorded music from the background to an activity that has their full and undivided attention. Perhaps this will create a small incremental demand for better music, better recordings of that music, and better playback equipment. Please join me by doing the same thing in your area if you can. Once folks hear what they are missing, they will develop a appetite for it and never want to go back.

 

Oh, it's obviously important to support the hardware side of this hobby too. As others have pointed out, my own investment in DAC technology is not yet beyond reproach. I'm working on that and hope to make an investment in a proper DAC later this year. Cheers!

 

-- David

 

 

[bernardl]

Besides, the digital downloads at sites like Rhino and HDTracks are mostly only available for purchase in the US...

 

Cheers,

Bernard

 

 

[crapperdapper]

Bernardl, if you pay with Paypal it is no problem

HDtracks that is.

 

Tx

 

[blueixus]

I share the general frustration about the lack of choice with regard to Hi Res music.

 

Most blame this on the massive uptake of MP3 etc started by the ipod and it's generation.

 

What I find most odd though is that the film industry via first DVD and now blu-ray is actually going in the opposite direction and selling higher res audio sound tracks as part of the cinematic DVD/Blu-ray experience.

 

To me this seems bizarre, but there is nowt so strange as music industry folk, they have got it wrong consistently so I won't hold my breath.

 

For me it is probably academic anyway most of my music listening is to stuff that is 20 years old and the chances of this seeing the light of day in high res is low to zero.

 

If I could have Blondie, Dusty Springfield and the Aretha Franklin catalogues in High Res that would be good enough! At least I can dream.

 

[wgb113]

The music industry need look no further than the TV/music industry. HDTV wasn't even the standard in most households yet when they told us 1080p was so much better. 1080p hadn't even gotten into the mass consciousness before they started shoving 3D down our throat.

 

People eat that stuff up and marketing's a big part of it. Rather than fight Napster the industry participated in a high-res format war where there was no winner.

 

I realize most audiophiles listen to jazz and classical but without mainstream rock, pop, R&B, and hip-hop in high-resolution marketed by the industry there will be no clamoring from the masses for it.

 

Sony just shut down a CD pressing plant in NJ. The end of the CD is nearing quickly. I too fear for the sound quality of music's future. Many artists are embracing vinyl but that's a step back in my opinion. As has already been mentioned, the studios have the capability to give us high-res NOW but they're, for some reason, being rather thick about it.

 

Bill