Is the recorded music industry still viable?

[Rexp]

Lets face it alot of digital recordings ain't worth buying, labels need to fix their product first. And even if a good recording is released most folks don't have a capable playback system. 

[Rexp]

I don't think the percentage of folks, young or old, interested in good SQ has changed much. When I was at college in the 80's I was the only kid with a decent hifi system in my group. Blaming young kids today for the sins of the labels is just wrong. 

[Rexp]

8 hours ago, John Dyson said:

I don't think that I have an obscesision about the sound -- I still casually listen.  It has been a technical curiousity, and my general historical nature of problem solving and being VERY successful at doing that.  (Esp EE and software design problem solving.)

 

I see futile obscessions when systems are being upgraded to get that 'good' sound, when it can never be achieved without the 'good' source material.

 

The CD signal processing is tantamount to errors equivalent to 10% distortion -- even though it isn't harmonic distortion, the errors start at about 10-20dB down, therefore roughly equivalent to 10% relative signal errors.

Now, why worry about 0.01% electronic distortion?   I'd guess that the 10% signal errors on CD aren't far away in audibility from 1-2% of non-ugly forms of harmonic distortion.   Also, there is the several dB relative errors in the midrange and the swishy high end that ANYONE can hear, that is if they know what a live recording sounds like. (I mean, before being NR or signal processed.)

 

This isn't really about 'me' per-se, it is the relative futility there is in spending over $1k-$2k in equipment, when the source material  has far greater relative errors.

 

This is mostly the engineer in me -- not so much audiophile.  I still enjoy very casual listening to CDs, but wouldn't bother purchasing more than mildly expensive equipment to improve the sound.  All but the very highest caliber CDs are already very damaged, but not beyond repair.   Those highest caliber CDs almost do not exist in the POP space, and the damaged CDs do exist in the classical and jazz space.

 

John

 

Do files ripped from CD's have the same distortion? 

[Rexp]

3 hours ago, MetalNuts said:

 

This is true.  The same CDs I have bought 30 years ago sound differently nowadays because of the improvement of players and DACs.

Yes, do you prefer CD or ripped CD playback? 

[Rexp]

13 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Note that there is also the syndrome of naturally accomodating the mis-mastering of early CDs.   If  you buy a CD nowadays vs. back then, it will sound very close to the same -- unless the mastering is different.  The old HW wasn't fully up to snuff, but wasn't the primary cause for the material sounding different from vinyl.  I have heard recordings made using old digital converters and video tape decks, those results can sound pretty good.   As soon as the screwed up mastering process gets involved, then we have that 'digital sound' that harkens back to the '80s.

When I do my comparisons, and I do them almost all day and all of the time -- the biggest problem other than proper ear hygiene is listening too long to the mismastered material.  The 'woody' vocals, the swishy hiighs (high hats that swish excessively), that 'springy' sound -- that isn't digital sound, that is mismastering sound.   Especially irritating, if one isn't accomodated to it -- the woody vocals.  The first thing that I want to do with the typical material as sold on digital media -- turn down the volume.   I have to do it because the frequency response balance is screwed up and over-emphasizes the midrange where hearing is pretty sensitive, and the super highs where the 'springy' sound comes from.

 

In addition to the frequency spectral imbalance, the bass is weirdly distorted (when there is true bass), and the stereo image gets a bit of a hole in it somewhere between the hard right/hard left and the 45degree point from hard right/hard left.  When you compare with properly mastered material, that hole is automagically filled in.

 

For pop material, there is VERY LITTLE that isn't missmastered since digital (CDs) came out.  I have heard some MFSL stuff that was properly mastered -- so IT CAN EXIST, but it doesn't generally exist on j-random CD.  Sadly, I have also been fooled into thinking that super-well ripped vinyl sounded like a CD to me, because it also was mismastered.  I don't think that happened much until relatively recently.

 

I consider it to be very special when I can find someone who will rip sections of ORIGINAL vinyl from before the '80s -- it makes good reference material, because there is so little reliable material anymore.  And NO, I don't like the vinyl sound, but I do like the fact that some vinyl is definitely mastered normally -- and gives a good reference for when trying to correct the mismastering.

 

John

 

Maybe start a new thread on Why CD Sucks

[Rexp]

46 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Perhaps, more that there is a real business opportunity - even if the volumes aren't super high, it isn't like tooling costs are needed anymore.  So, all the cost is remastering and a distribution mechanism.   Basically, HDtracks could take their catalog, do a proper remaster on the material, and sell truly superior product.   Eventually, the market would follow -- there are lots of frustrated audiophiles spending megabucks on their systems, mostly improving the sound in the margins.  There ARE megabucks sitting out there in the over 30 crowd -- they are frustratedly spending money in the only place where they can find ANY improvement (however relatively marginal.)

 

Even though, superficially it seems like it is off topic, I am claiming that if someone does the proper mastering rework, there is a viable business.   I think that HDtracks is missing the mark.

 

The music business in general could get a shot in the arm (however small) by simple improvement in quality.  Maybe a two layered product -- the existing messy loudness wars/bad mastering version for car radios and cheap ear-buds, and a high quality version for real listening.

 

John

 

While I agree the majority of digital mastering is diabolical, most members on this site seem quite happy so hard to see any appetite for major change. 

[Rexp]

Crime of the Century is one of those lp's that is a great test for vinyl systems, it sounds much better as the system improves Abba not so much.