can't "see" entire iTunes Library on shared LIbrary with Mac

[Murph]

I finally got, what I hope to be my main system set up. Mini Mac, into W4S DAC-2, into stereo. I used iTunes on the Mac and pointed it to the Music file on a NAS in my basement office via Lan. I thought everything was good, until I noticed that the Mini Mac-based iTUnes isn't "seeing" the entire music library, it's short about 1000 songs. I messed with it all day yesterday and still no joy. so today I just switched it to using Home Sharing with the downstairs system (the original one that I built the Music file with--it's a PC btw) and now I at least have access to the full library, but no Playlists etc.

 

My original intention was to have both systems sharing the same iTunes database....Can I do that. Any ideas on what I've done wrong?

 

Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks,

Murph

 

 

[CommonTater]

Is the computer in the basement on Windows 7?

 

To make it fully compatible with the MAC you need to use a Work Network and do some adjusting of the Advanced sharing options... You may also have to select "Windows Networking" in the MAC itself.

 

On Win7...

In Control Panel, open your Network and Sharing Center then click on Change Adaptor Settings, right click, select Properties.

 

You want to uncheck the boxes for "Internet Protocol (TCP/IPv6)" and the two "Link Layer Topology" entries.

 

Now return to the Network and Sharing center and check the network type. It probably says either "Home Network" or "Public Network". You actually want it to say "Work Network", the only networking scenario that is compatible with workgroups and file sharing used by other operating systems. To change this click directly on the name and select "Work Network" from the list.

 

Finally click on Advanced Sharing Settings and mark selections in the the Home or Work Network section as follows:

Turn on network discovery

Turn on file and printer sharing

Turn off public folder sharing

Enable file sharing for devices with 40 or 56 bit encryption

Turn off password protected sharing

Use user accounts and passwords to connect to other computers

 

Finally, make sure both MAC and PC are on the same workgroup.

 

 

This should work with the broadest range of OSs and devices.

Of course you should write down previous settings, so you can put them back if you need to.

 

 

[Murph]

Wow...thanks Tater....actually the system in the basement is on XP, do you know how much of the information you've provided is applicable to XP?

THanks

murph

 

 

[CommonTater]

Not much of that is applicable to XP at all. The big problem usually with Windows 7. Microsoft decided to re-invent home networking... and I'm betting you can guess what a mess it's created.

 

On XP there's really only one thing I can suggest... Go into your Folder Options, View panel and turn off "Simple File Sharing". This produces the business like file sharing where you create your own shares (Right click a folder and select "Sharing") and use a username and password to access the computer. It's a bit more work to set up but it's also a lot more reliable when it's done.

 

On the MAC you will find an option in your network setup for "Windows File Sharing". In general this option is based on the XP/Business model. This too takes a little setting up but once done it's usually pretty reliable.

 

Here is one of many "quicky" tutorials on the subject...

 

Mac-PC Sharing (Google is our friend)

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Murph - I believe this is actually much easier than messing with file sharing or anything like that. The home sharing you are talking about is likely the one built into iTunes correct?

 

Also, what do you mean when you say iTunes can't see about 1000 of your files? Are they one specific file type or in a somewhat different location?

 

A little bit more info and this may be able to be resolved easily.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Tater - I don't believe he is trying to use file sharing. iTunes has built in library sharing. Plus, if he places everything on the NAS there is no need to change sharing settings for files & folders.

 

[CommonTater]

Quite often the problem is not that file sharing is not working but that the computers are not successfully connecting to one another. The network layer scenario for Home Network (win 7) and Simple File Sharing (XP) is somewhat different than the standard of Workgroup sharing. While this obviously does affect file sharing ability, it also impacts the computer's ability to successfully connect to one another via TCP where username and password authorization are often needed.

 

Granted putting everything on the NAS will ease this problem somwhat but as a rule the only sure way to get everything talking successfully is to set up Workgroups and File sharing. Even if you don't share anything this most often overcomes the authentication problems.

 

Besides, there is value in being able to share other types of files as well... Video, Pictures, PVR, etc. My big objection to players that do too much has always been that it takes people away from --not into-- the real power of distributed file systems.

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Tater - I've never heard of anyone setting up a workgroup for iTunes library sharing or struggling with authentication. It's similar to napster and limewire. There's no need to touch Windows networking when you have a third party application that handles media sharing.

 

Sure people can share local filesystems all they want, I'm not against this. It just increases complexity for audiophiles looking to simply play music.

 

[CommonTater]

Hi again Chris... This is getting interesting.

 

I agree that if you "just want to play music" something as basic as iTunes with a NAS box is all you really need. (Although I would suggest there are far better ways...)

 

I would question how many audiophiles *only* want music from their systems.

 

But your point is taken... if a quick fix is all that's wanted, messing with iTunes settings is the easy way to go.

 

 

[Murph]

OK...well I certainly fall into the category of an audiophile (or more correctly a music lover)only wanting to listen to music!

Anyway, maybe I can clarify things a bit. Yes Chris, the Home sharing I referred to is the one in iTunes. I'm currently just using that to share the library with the Mac upstairs---and it's working OK I just miss having the playlists and not having the ability to rip CDs on the upstairs system and have them go directly to the shared library. I originally thought it would be a better solution to just "point" the iTunes on my Mac to the library on the NAS (it's a Drobo/Droboshare) I also pointed the Mac's iTunes to the Library files on the NAS as well. That is when I noticed that it didn't "see" a bunch of files that are included in the Music file on the NAS. Chris, it seems to me that it was missing a lot more recent files, because I first noticed it when I tried to find an album that I ripped to the music file a few weeks ago. so I sorted the itunes database by "date added" and didn't see anything more recent than several months ago. Anyway, I messed around with it for several hours, changing the iTunes on the Mac so it doesn't point to the NAS music file anymore and just turned on HomeSharing. I was hoping to implement either Amara or (more likely) Pure Music into the equation, but I'm holding off adding anything else until I get comfortable with the setup. The other thing is, that the PC in the office (downstairs) is pretty old and starting to get wiggy, so I may end up replacing it with an iMac in the near future....do y'all see any problems (or benefits) arising out of that? For instance, the NAS is configured with FAT32 file system since it shares data with PCs and Macs...etc.

I'm anxious to get to the point that I can start downloading higher rez files and take advantage of the 24/192 DAC on the upstairs system...that was the impetus for spending the $$ on the Mac Mini and W4S DAC in the first place!

 

Thanks for your thoughts guys!

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Murph - I have a suspicion that your recently ripped files are on the local drive instead of the Drobo/DroboShare. If you see the newly ripped files on the Drobo but not in the iTunes library you can simply add them to the library using the Add to Library function.

 

 

Now, here is how I would setup your system if I were you.

 

Store all the music on the Drobo.

Store the iTunes library file(s) on the Drobo as well.

 

There is a major difference between the iTunes Music/Media Folder location that is configurable in iTunes and the iTunes Library file(s).

 

I would copy your local iTunes folder to the Drobo. The browse to the Drobo and open the file in the iTunes folder named iTunes Library. This will mean everything is on the Drobo. You can open this library file from other computers and the music will be the same.

 

 

 

 

Let me know if I've only added to your confusion. I can possible create a diagram for this. Also, there are some articles and videos in the Computer Audiophile Academy you may find helpful.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/category/Computer-Audiophile-Academy/Computer-Audiophile-Academy

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Murph - I have a suspicion that your recently ripped files are on the local drive instead of the Drobo/DroboShare. If you see the newly ripped files on the Drobo but not in the iTunes library you can simply add them to the library using the Add to Library function.

 

 

Now, here is how I would setup your system if I were you.

 

Store all the music on the Drobo.

Store the iTunes library file(s) on the Drobo as well.

 

There is a major difference between the iTunes Music/Media Folder location that is configurable in iTunes and the iTunes Library file(s).

 

I would copy your local iTunes folder to the Drobo. The browse to the Drobo and open the file in the iTunes folder named iTunes Library. This will mean everything is on the Drobo. You can open this library file from other computers and the music will be the same.

 

 

 

 

Let me know if I've only added to your confusion. I can possible create a diagram for this. Also, there are some articles and videos in the Computer Audiophile Academy you may find helpful.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/category/Computer-Audiophile-Academy/Computer-Audiophile-Academy

 

[Murph]

Still struggling with this.... I've confirmed that both systems are pointing at the same 201 GB Music File. (on a Drobo via Drobo Share)

 

I thought I had the library files that iTunes is using on the Drobo as well...BUT when I point the Mac to the Library File on the Drobo, it doesn't include all the music that is on iTunes on the PC. It is short by 50 or 60 GB.

So it appears that the Library I'm pointing the Mac to isn't the same as the Library the PC is using, However....as far as I can tell they are looking at the same Library file on the Drobo.

 

Is there a way to just check to see the Library file location that iTunes is using on a PC (also on a Mac for that matter). It's easy to find where it's going for the Music files, but I can't find a way to see where it's going for the Library files.

 

I suppose another alternative would be to start over and create a New Library on the PC and then make sure the Mac is looking at the same file, but I'd rather be able to confirm the Library file on the PC then point the Mac to the same file.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Murph - On the PC hold down the SHIFT key while opening iTunes. It will give you the option to select a Library. It will likely browse to the current Library automatically and show you what it has been using all this time.

 

Or, just hold down shift when opening iTunes on the PC and select the library on the Drobo. Call it a day.

 

[Murph]

OK I've got it working!

As you suggested, Chris(and I was strongly suspecting the more I compared the Libraries I was seeing) my main iTunes was using a library on the internal drive. How this happened is a mystery to me because When I got the Drobo I moved the Music files and the Library to the Drobo and used it like that for about a year. Sometime in the past several months it started using a library on the C-drive again--I'm speculating it might have happened with an iTunes update or something.

 

Anyway, I copied the Library it was using to the Drobo and named it "Shared Library" then redirected both instances of iTunes to that Library file. I initially had some problems with some files not being located, but most of those were fixed when I restarted iTunes. I also had to re-download a bunch of album art, but no biggie.

 

I also learned that when you press "Shift" and click on iTunes (on a PC) it does NOT show you where it is currently getting the Library, it just gives you the option of creating one or choosing one (just like it does when you press "option" and iTunes on a Mac) I discovered it was NOT looking at the Drobo library by choosing it and noticing that it was not as large as the Library it was using previously. So I went back to the internal drive and looked in the default location and it was using that Library.

 

Anyway, thank you for the suggestions, they really got me in the right direction...and for all the great info on the site. I've spent hours looking at the tutorials etc. and they are great!

 

I'm enjoying great sounds out of the Mac mini-Wyred4Sound Dac-2 as I'm typing this---and I have the benefit of being upstairs with the rest of the family!

 

Murph