HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[John Hughes]

So, I've been looking at the Terminator. Just checking to see if anyone here has heard both the May and Terminator?  

[John Hughes]

So, I've made the leap and ordered a Holo May KTE edition :)

[John Hughes]

I received my Holo May KTE dac today.  Set it up and running it in.  Immediately- huge dynamics, more detail, bigger soundstage, bass has more authority, greater separation of instruments than my other dac.   I'll comment more after 200 hours of playing.   Took 1 month to deliver from when I ordered, I was worried it would take a lot longer because of how much good press the May is getting now. 

[John Hughes]

So I am using both the USB and i2S inputs with my May.  However my i2S source is inferior to my USB source and not my critical listening path.  I am basically using a inexpensive Ebay sourced USB to i2S Converter on my Nvidia Shield output so that I can have two USB output devices connected to the May.   

 

The May has some issues locking to that i2S signal, it takes it about 15 seconds when switching to lock.  The NVidia outputs everything to 192K, but sometimes the May switches to 48K when I open some apps like Netflix.  My previous dacs never switched from 192K (though did take a while to connect), so I suspect its a PLL issue caused by Mays tight PLL tolerances, as stated by others in this thread.  I also think this is more about the cheap i2S converter than about the May.

 

I'd like to try a better USB to i2S converter to see if that's the issue, but frankly don't need to spend that kind of money for this source.

[John Hughes]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:20 PM, GoldenOne said:

I don't believe there is no. Sorry, probably could have worded that post better. 

 

What I meant is that the pll puts basically any digital source on equal footing with the may. Be it an expensive streamer or basic optical from my pc. 

 

USB sounds the same regardless of if the pll is on or not. 

 Regarding PLL and USB input. I've been corresponding with Tim @ Kitsune, and he says the PLL is engaged with the USB input, but it locks a lot faster than other inputs. 

 

Quote

" It runs in master mode on the USB port so it locks faster than the spdif inputs but it’s still working the same way. And when you disable then all inputs are disabled."

 

[John Hughes]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:20 PM, GoldenOne said:

I don't believe there is no. Sorry, probably could have worded that post better. 

 

What I meant is that the pll puts basically any digital source on equal footing with the may. Be it an expensive streamer or basic optical from my pc. 

 

USB sounds the same regardless of if the pll is on or not. 

I have been corresponding with Tim @ Kitsune, and he says that USB does use PLL:

 

Quote

" It runs in master mode on the USB port so it locks faster than the spdif inputs but it’s still working the same way. And when you disable then all inputs are disabled."

 

[John Hughes]

26 minutes ago, mushi said:

Hey guys, tell me honestly, can you hear the difference between on and off PLL?

USB / SPDIF / whatever?

What your golden ears say?

I've been listening the last few days.  I have one source that is definitely happier (functionally, not sonically) with PLL off.  Listening super critically and switching a lot between it on and off I think I hear a very small difference.  The treble is very slightly pushed forward, and the soundstage shifts just a little bit.  But it's a mosquitos fart of a difference.  It's much less of a difference than say changing the digital filter selections on other dacs. So many other factors, like the humidity in the room, power quality fluctuations etc,  make more difference. 

 

 So I am not going to worry about it and I'll keep it off for now.  

[John Hughes]

3 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

Is the MAY DAC USB card / the USB interface powered up internally, or does it requires +5V supplied by the source (by the laptop)? 

The May uses its own power for the USB, but it does require the power signal to connect.

[John Hughes]

I leave me be running all the time.  Sounds great out or the box, and even better after a couple hundred hours. 

[John Hughes]

4 hours ago, mrkoven said:

Has anyone moved from USB to I2S with a Singxer DDC or otherwise? I'm wondering if it's worth switching from USB to I2S. 

I bought the Kitsune edition of the Singxer SU-1 so that I could have two USB sources for the May.  I haven't tried swapping my main Stack Audio Link II usb output direct into the May with the Singxer AES input yet.  I'll give it a go this weekend.

 

One note I will say is that I've gotten a big difference in SQ when using different 0.5M HDMI cables for AES with the SU-1,  so adding in that variable seems kind of dumb, the SU-1 would have to make a big difference over the May's USB input to warrant a change for me.

[John Hughes]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:36 PM, ted_b said:

I just posted on the Holo Spring thread that although I still believe the SU-1 sq is marginally better than via the newer XU208 USB module, the gap narrowed significantly compared to the previous (original) USB module, and it would not surprise me one bit that it could be equal to or better than the SU-1 in a newer more resolving Holo Spring 2 or May.  The SU-1 is likely not the be-all end-all of DDCs, though.

Ok, I did a comparison between the May's USB input and the Kitsune Singxer Su-1 with i2S out into the May.  The only difference is the 0.5M solid silver HDMI/i2S cable that is added into the path.  They are very close in SQ.  The May USB is a bit fuller and fleshed out in the midrange.  The SU-1 has more sparkle an extension on the highs, a feeling of a bit more clarity and detail, while being just a bit more forward with slightly leaner bass.   I liked the extra sparkle with the SU-1.

 

But really, everything I described is also a good description of what a well designed solid silver cable usually brings to the mix.  And the difference was minor.  So small differences, and I don't think the SU-1 would be something I would buy to upgrade the May's USB.

 

My source is a Stack Link II with LPS Ropiee XL endpoint (which is excellent). I was getting some PLL locking delays with the SU-1, and loud pops upon switching to DSD files and back to PCM. This is an regular issue with Roon endpoints, having to do with the way the files are handled at the core to the streamer.   I don't really blame the SU-1 for that, but just to be cautious. I don't get these issues with the May's USB input.  But since about 1/4 of my listening is DSD these days, I won't use the SU-1 for this.

 

I will continue to use the SU-1 to convert my Nvidia Shield USB audio output to i2S and send the 192K signal to the May.  I played Assassin's Creed Odyssey through it last night, and the sound was the best I've heard for games :)

[John Hughes]

14 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I know you keep typing AES, but do you mean I2S?  AES/EBU is 110 ohm digital XLR, not HDMI. 

You are right! I always mix that up.  I'll edit it. Dyslexics Untie!

[John Hughes]

The Link II comes with a SMPS and sounds good with it.  They have recently launched an LPS as an upgrade, which I have.  It was a very clear improvement.  I've used LPS many times in digital audio, usually to good effect.

[John Hughes]

It's 18V, I don't know if its 2A, but that makes sense.  I had asked about it because I have a Shanti LPS I thought I could use as well, but its a different voltage. 

[John Hughes]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:18 PM, MichaelHiFi said:

I finally received an email  from Tim. 

So to be honest, from what I understand, the 5 volts is needed for the handshake. I guess that answers my question. Bill (grannyring) is building me a cable (double smoked) for the May.

 

Now I need a server, or what I really want to do is build a server.

Yes, I have a Roon endpoint that allows me to turn off the power bus to the USB,  the May will not connect when I turn off the power bus.

[John Hughes]

17 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

Anyone see the ZSounds Review on YouTube! Made me laugh at his hypocrisy. 😁 

I always thought he is nuts, what a troll! I've watch a few of his reviews, and some of the stuff he states about audio and products is just so misguided.  He really just likes a lot of buttons and functions and shiny objects.  I've disagreed with his findings on the few things he has reviewed that I know. 

[John Hughes]

Its been my experience that Tim takes more than a day to respond to a new query, but will generally respond to an ongoing query faster.  Though he is not the fastest, he gives excellent support.

[John Hughes]

BTW, I recently ordered and received the Holo Titanis USB reclocker/filter, and Kitsune Premium USB cable. I am letting them burn in on my system for a while before I comment on them.  I have had good luck with Tims recommendations, so I am hopeful they will work out.

[John Hughes]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

I have a Titanis from Tim too, from a few years ago, and I really haven't given it enough time in my system, each instance I try it.  It seems those times were when too much else was changing in my system that I couldn't isolate it out.  But now that you bring it up, I realize I should install it into my Singxer/Holo/RAAL setup for now, and then give it some time.  These RAALs are so revealing that if the Titanis DOES have value-add I should hear it more plainly than in a larger speaker system.  Thx for the reminder.  🙂

 

Sorry for taking this OT. 

So to bring it back on to topic, I have read that the May has the next generation of the Titanis circuitry as part of the USB input.  So it may not improve the May any. Just plugging it in cold to the May I heard just a tiny difference.  I have plugged it into my Kitsune Singxer U2 for my NVidia Shield streamer output (a pretty dirty input I imagine), and am letting it burn in there.  I think I do hear a difference there!

[John Hughes]

On 3/15/2021 at 11:33 AM, Quadman said:

I have seen many people post here that communication is slow, at least initially, with Kitsune.  Now an order was placed Thursday and an invoice has not been sent.  That is not very good communication and reflects on the company itself.  I get it they are busy, but I remember when Alex from uptone audio was slamming, working in the shop 10+ hours a day and constantly replying to emails and forum questions in a timely manner.  He just got er done.  It looks like the dac's come direct from China as ordered L1,L2 KTE so Tim does not have to mod himself in house.  I can't imagine what is keeping them so busy they can't reply to new inquiries or orders in a timely manner.  I am seriously thinking of ordering this dac but these issues keep me from pursuing it further.  Hire someone..cheez

I've ordered several times, including purchasing the May.  Yes, Tim is slow to respond to initial orders and questions.  Usually it takes a couple of days to respond to new orders or a legitimate question.  However, once the connection is made, he is fairly prompt, on point, and very useful. Each order I have received the package faster than expected.

 

With a star product that is garnering so many awards and kudos, he is probably swamped with useless queries that go nowhere and just take up time.  I've been there, it can be very time consuming with little reward.  Also, I think as a small businessman he has a choice to prioritize quality of life over the American obsession with instant gratification. And I applaud that choice. More of us should live that way :) Working with someone that runs a bespoke business requires more patience, and the reward can be products with more soul.  

[John Hughes]

22 minutes ago, sledwards said:

Thought I would report on my short time with the May (KTE version) so far. I have had it in my system for about a week now, and yes, it took about the quoted 6 weeks to arrive. The May is replacing a Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro MQA, a DAC I was hoping would be my last (for a while anyways).  For initial evaluation, I just swapped the two DACs and ran the May in NOS mode. A little about my digital front end. I use a dedicated HQPlayer server running HQPe (Ubuntu 20.04).  It is an i7-8700K machine with an RTX-2080 graphics card for CUDA offload. I am upsampling all music to DSD256, ASDM7EC modulator and typically use the sinc-L filter. I also run convolution using 384 kHz filters generated using Acourate, hence the reason for the RTX-2080.  My NAA is a passively cooled i5-9400T in a HDPlex v3 chassis, with JCAT net Femto and USB XE cards. Power is supplied by the HDPlex 300W, 4-output  supply.  The NAA runs HQPe, bootable image on a USB stick.  Currently, I am using the Singxer SU-6 to convert USB to i2S input to the May. For the analog downstream portion of my system, I run direct connect to my power amplifier (Neurochrome Modulus-686) and use the wonderful 64-bit HQPlayer volume control which integrates well with Roon.  Speakers are GR- Research NX-Oticas, with 2- triple OB 12-inch servo subs and 2 sealed PSA 15-in powered subs.  You can never have to much bass. I split the balanced output of the May and send it to a Mini DSP 4x10 for control of all 4 subs.

 

The sound…aMayzing (sorry about that, could not resist).  After reading all the reviews and testimonials, I could not have wished for more.  I listen to a lot of acoustic guitar, and I have never heard the resonance, timbre and decay of acoustic strings sound so life-like; almost spooky. When strings are strummed, the individual notes are easy to resolve without smearing.  It’s so clean, I find myself increasing the volume beyond levels I had previously thought were comfortable limits.

 

I will continue my evaluation by changing HQPlayer settings (high rate PCM and different filters) and modes.  What I have tried so far is to remove the Singxer SU-6 from the audio chain and let the USB XE talk directly with the May. To be honest, I actually preferred  the sound a bit more with the Singxer in circuit. A little more sparkle on the top end and transients seemed a bit more lively.  I would only be guessing as to why I heard the difference, but one thing that does differ are the cables in use. While the same USB cable is used in both configurations, the i2S cable is not present in both.  The cable I am using is a Phasure HDMI^2.

Those who are patiently waiting will not be disappointed. Questions and comments welcome.

 

Regards,

Steve
 

Hey Steve, congrats!  I am really curious what your experience would be to listen for a while without upsampling in the loop through HQPlayer.  The May does such an excellent job at Nos, I have found I prefer it to any upsampling that Roon can do (up to DSD512 or 384PCM). Nos was definitely more open.  I have not taken the leap to HQ player though.  Its been my experience that while upsampling can add technical merits to audio quality, it can also make it sound more closed in with less energy and possibly more synthetic.  Some people have been 'converted' lol.  

[John Hughes]

12 minutes ago, ted_b said:

John Hughes, you need to try HQPlayer sometime soon.  When you get the just the right recipe of filter and dither/modulator (especially if your server has enough gas to do EC modulators) you'll hear that it goes way beyond what Roon can do.  Roon is still a piece of this, but on another machine, feeding HQPlayer (the startling benefits of taking Roon off your HQPlayer machine is quite dramatic in my estimation).  Another nice thing about upsampling in general, and HQPlayer's upsampling in particular, is that almost all dacs have a sweetspot where they sound best.  Because Holo products like May can be put in NOS mode, it's easy to find that sweetspot(s) over time. 

I will definitely try it, I use the Parametric EQ in Roon for speaker correction. So I think I have to duplicate that with HQplayer. This adds another wrinkle to the mix. I have a powerful Win 10 workstation (Ryzen 3950 CPU and 32GB ram) for the Roon Core, so i have the juice.  I've not seen a comprehensive guide on how to accomplish this with HQplayer, just bits and pieces and forums.  Any pointer to good resources?

[John Hughes]

18 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

Yeah I just leave it on 24/7. 
Thermal cycling is typically worse for components than being warm for long durations, and I'd much rather the DAC be ready to go at any time

THIS!

[John Hughes]

15 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

Yup, upsampled PCM for me as well. 

Are you talking about May's own upsampling?  I've done a lot of comparisons, and what I hear is that while the PCM upsampling sounds a bit 'crisper' and forces the ambience more forward it loses more subtle details and richness inside acoustic instruments. I listen to mostly acoustic-based recordings with real instruments, as opposed to electronic, and that might have more to do with my preference. The DSD upsampling sounds dull and saps the energy from the music to me.

[John Hughes]

3 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I would assume that, like Holo's earlier wonder dacs like my Holo Spring KTE, the OS modes in the May use cheap DSP chips and cannot compare to even using Roon upsampling, let alone HQplayer or an outboard processor like the Chord M-Scaler.   May is meant to play at NOS mode IMO.  And yes, I would assume, again, that Jeff's greaat R2R design makes PCM upsampling (to PCM) a real winner.  I never liked crossing over to PCM-to-DSD.  I leave DSD in its own domain, upsampling it to DSD256 via ASDM7EC.  Can't wait to hear May's PCM at 32fs!  👍

I have plenty of NativeDSD releases in highe rX DSD and DXD, they sound great without any upsampling :) I always buy the native resolution/format of the release.