EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[LowMidHigh]

@Superdad

 

Allow me resubmit my question:

 

My planned movie streamer is ethernet -> Mac Mini -> MiniDSP U-DIO8 with 8 AES channels.

(HDMI sends he signal to the TV)

 

First off, ISO Reg + LP-1.2 is to be placed between the Mac Mini and the MiniDSP.

The other improvements I’m considering is your Mac Mini DC Kit + external power supply.

 

Given the above, will an ER before the Mac improve the overall sound quality?

 

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi Guy:

Well that is certainly the idea. And since you have both an EtherREGEN and an ISO REGEN on order with us, it won't be long until you get to answer the question for yourself. 

 

Fair enough, Alex

 

But the operative word was planned.

I don't have that system in place yet, and your guidance would've helped with designing the topology.

 

Let me attack it from a different angle: Would going out from the 'A' side to the Mac Min potentially make any difference? Or that's an exercise in futility, and only crossing the moat can make a substantial difference?

 

[LowMidHigh]

19 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Guy:

I have moved your questions out of the Listening Impressions thread to this Installations and Usage thread.

 

I guess I really do not understand what you are proposing.  If your DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint is your Mac mini, then you will want to put it alone on the 'B' side--across the moat.

Certainly you can could hook everything up to just the 'A' side--and the EtherREGEN will just perform as about the world's best standard Ethernet switch (lots of great power supply, clocking, and magnetics on the 'A' side). But if you want the 'magic' that everyone is raving about, you need to cross the ADIM (Active Differential Isolation Moat).

 

Thanks.

I wont' trouble you with the details of my systems (plural), but you've shed enough light for me to proceed.

[LowMidHigh]

2 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Dropped out again within 10 minutes of restarting the ER 😞

 

Maybe for starters have only one device connected to the A side? It will certainly help to pinpoint the issue. 

[LowMidHigh]

9 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

That's not possible. I need internet from my router in, and access to my server. Unless you are saying ditch the endpoint and just do server connected to B side?

I suggest you get your network signal for the device that doesn't go across the moat from your router . Run a CAT6 cable and bypass the ER.

 

Now you should have only one device on the A side. It's going to be the one that passes its signal directly to the device on the B side. 

 

Next, test for dropouts. 

[LowMidHigh]

38 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

No need...I welcome the descending opinions and comments. We don’t need to agree on everything and discussion is necessary to furthering our understanding. I know you and I are after the same thing and that is to understand this completely and scientifically.

 

I understand the moat, the flip flops, and the clock fingerprint concept but those measurements are needed for validation and IMHO you should wait and proceed with caution about claiming things. If John is correct even an opticalModule will diminish the effect of the clock fingerprint. However, I don’t claim this anywhere in the marketing of the product because we lack the measurements to prove it. I also don’t think it’s audible but that is another discussion.
 

Also, in regards to my comment #3 above what good will the moat, the flip flops, and the clock fingerprint concept have if you are connecting to crappy endpoints which themselves will inject the very thing you are trying to isolate into your DAC. People need to understand this if it has any chance of working as John intends. Its not possible to achieve what John is trying to do with typical computers, streaming DACs, and some endpoints. 

 

Its not possible to achieve what John is trying to do with typical computers, streaming DACs, and some endpoints. 

 

Common sense suggests that any reduction in phase noise/voltage noise/jitter injected into the recipient would decrease the overall noise within its enclosure. Consequently, we should expect a more precise and "cleaner" output signal. 

 

Of course, the improvement may not be audible if the recipient self-generated "filth" drowns any improvement in the input signal. 

[LowMidHigh]

Every cable loony should read that every night before they go to sleep:

 

Changes made by different cable lengths and material types etc make such small changes in the signal that they are incredibly hard to measure. The only exception are cables that are radically out of spec.

[LowMidHigh]

5 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

I was wrong about the latest firmware update.... It did not lose any musicality at all. Its better everywhere slightly. It was my ears!! Sorry, Alex and John. I just realised that I had some issue with my ear or ears in last few days 😞 It was partially blocked like living in a vacuum from time to time in last few days. It comes and go, never experienced this in my life. I hope that its not a sign of losing my hearing......

Anyway, I had a good listen tonight when my ears are clear and music I heard was full of life!

 

On a side note, I came across a product called Net Isolator from Jcat while I was surfing for audiophile quality ethernet cables without metal plugs. The description of it sounded so similar to ER but strangely its not powered.

• Install between the Ethernet cable which connects to home network (the router or the switch) and the network audio component (music server, network renderer)
• For best performance install in close distance to the network audio  component (music server, network  renderer)
• The Ethernet cable entering the NET Isolator from home network (the router or the switch) does not have to be very high quality, but it is recommended that the short Ethernet cable from the NET Isolator to the network audio component (music server, network renderer) is audio-grade – it is of most importance
• The NET Isolator eliminates harshness caused by the network noise and makes the listening stressfree. Noisefloor is lower, music flows more effortless and finer details can be heard easily

I wonder whats the difference if anyone knows about it? 

 

There're many passive filters in the market place.

SOtMN for one https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/dcbl-cat7/

 

I'm sure they do assist in a way, but the active ER is a different ballgame.

You can read reviews and form your own option, or just get a filter with money-back and give it a spin.

 

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, Pokey77 said:

I do understand that and that is why I posted what I did about my system setup. I'm going to try several different positions with the ER. I'd prefer for it to be in another room where I don't care about the heat is generates. However, I will put it where it ultimately sounds the best.

 

I experimented with 0.5 meter and 20 meter cat6. If there was a difference, I couldn't pick on it. 

 

What is the working theory behind the adverse effect of reasonably long cat6 or higher  cables? Or there's none? 

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, russellbobby said:

Hey Gang

Whats a solid Cat 6 or 7 cable that I can run 100 ft from my modem/router to the EtheRegen? Have a SoTm 77 from the EtherRegen to my streamer.  Going to be running part in wall.  
budget under a 100.00 or so 

thanks,

Russ

 

Buy a 100 ft Cat6 cable, some RJ45 terminators and a crimping tool. Very easy to make and transmits the signal flawlessly for a friction of the cost. 

[LowMidHigh]

2 minutes ago, Roasty said:

Thanks for all the info, guys. Lots of stuff for me to read up and learn. 

 

I wonder how many people are actually using the ER ground screw.. My other query is when would it be absolutely necessary to use it, given that the B side is going to be "clean" anyways..? 

 

I was told that using an external clock might require grounding the ER. 

 

I was also told that grounding the ER can't cause any damage or degrade performance should grounding isn't actually required. 

 

Since I use an external clock and prefer to be on the safe side, I grounded it. 

 

[LowMidHigh]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Who told you THAT? It is incorrect.

The BNC shell of the external clock input is part of the ‘B’ side power/data/clock domain. 

The Ground screw is attached to the ‘A’ domain plane—and is used to provide a path to “drain” away high-source-impeadance leakage that may be trying to enter on ‘A’ side copper ports. That is all.

All of this is covered well on page 8 of the EtherREGEN User Guide. 

 

As far as I recall, John S. mentioned the external clock vis-a-vis grounding in one of his posts. Perhaps I misunderstood it.

 

My rule is to ground the ER if I have any device on the A side other than the incoming stream. $3 cable, set and forget. 

[LowMidHigh]

Soliciting opinions from anyone knowledgeable:

 

A.

Is there any reason as why not to ground 2 ER’s to the same point?
(That is, wire each ER to the same ground point on a nearby wall).

 

B.

Is there a reason against grounding one ER to the other? (
That is, one ER is wired to the second ER's ground stub, and from there a wire goes to a ground point on the wall).

 

Thanks!

[LowMidHigh]

On 7/13/2020 at 7:04 PM, mourip said:

  

I tried it both ways and decided that having other equipment connected through the "A" side other than just the direct connection to my music server degraded the sound noticeably, probably due to polluting the server. For a while I would unplug the other devices from the ER when listening to music but that was a pain. Since I did not really note an improvement in my video and video sound anyway I plugged those connections back into the small upstream 8 port Cisco switch which was common to all. A fiber LAN connection to the ER with only my music server on the "A" side would probably be best but I have not tried that yet. My guess is that all of these audible changes are about grounding and which devices are on an LPS and which still use an SMPS.

 

I’d like to report the opposite. 

 

I experience noticeable picture quality improvement going ER(A) to MacMini (Tv).  No detriment to the signal quality from the B side. 

 

To be on the safe side, I have grounded both my ER’s. 

 

Speaking of which, I was so impressed with the video improvement, that I purchased a second ER, initially to feed my MacMini exclusively, but then I discovered the benefits of chaining the two ER’s. The MacMini is connected to the 2^nd ER(A), so there’s one pass through the B port.