Mains conditioner for SMPSs?

[marce]

12 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

 Cable magic is your term, not mine

Ah but you believe cables can act as DSP's.

 

12 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

hundreds of thousands

It increases by a factor of 10 every post.

 

12 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Boeing recognize differences between cables and they employ engineers to control those differences, matching what they need with the exact right cable for the job.

Same with audio, only simpler....

 

12 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

The sad thing about all this is that you’re wrong so all you’d achieve at least symbolically, is to deny audiophiles the ability to buy properly engineered cables. Plain and simple

What a load of rubbish.

 

12 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

You may provide some active HF drain for the shields, whatever. 

A what.... A drain wire is to reduce the resistance for crappy foil shield cables, Drain wires actually increase some rf pick up.

 

12 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

I suggest you organise a visit with someone having a top class installation. Not a dealer

Been there done that, I was an audiophile when we had to meet up, pre internet days.....

[marce]

2 hours ago, semente said:

 

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/116637511-the-importance-of-star-quad-microphone-cable

A bit more to it than

 just a video, you need to examine what is going on, signal levels etc. This is a low level analogue signal with a cable you must admit is a bit longer than your average household run... You might have seen some of the fancy stuff around like CERN, LIGO even Daresbury, all have the same issues with low level signals... You wouldn't run a cable near a phone charger (a bad one at that) the video is to show the effect the cable geometry has, so exaggerated noise is a good example of what can happen, in the real world you would not run a cable near to any such sources of interference.

 

Star quad microphone cable is designed for the very low levels of signals microphone produce, hence the signal has to have a lot of gain applied to get a usable signal... Its all about levels and effect...

[marce]

10 minutes ago, semente said:

 

I agree. Star quad mic cable is better fit for purpose (low-level signal transmission). One could argue that it work well with the signals coming from a low-gain MC cartridge if the phono preamp as not in the vicinity and the interference environment wasn't friendly.

 

So my questions are what mechanisms could be affecting data stream transmission and how can we deal with them?

Here is the longer answer I was composing earlier...

Digital data stream, all the usual suspects, covered many times as the data tends to get there bit perfect we have a bit of an issue as to what mechanism can cause the perceived change of sound...

Anyway the long reply that was being created...

Quote

For the record I have never said cables don’t have an effect on the signal they carry, what I have said is this effect is measurable. In the case of analogue interconnects the effects of the cable parasitic resistance, inductance and capacitance can be seen with measurement’s and unless the cable is badly engineered or designed to have a noticeable effect, the differences are far too low to be audible.  Of course using balanced is better than single ended.

Digital cables, all the digital interfaces used in audio are well specified, getting signals down a digital interface is a well-studied area… Again like any physical signal transport medium a cable will have some effect on the signal, again measurable and because we understand how signals travel quite well now, the cable/signal interaction can be simulated allowing the correct cable to be engineered. Same with the connectors… And the PCB, though all the interfaces have hard defined rules on how they should be laid out… For Ethernet and other LVDS lines the critical factor is skew between the +/- lines on a PCB or structure with a 0V reference plane, for cables it’s the skew and the twisting for CM noise rejection. Obviously controlled impedance from source to destination is desired and should be within the interface specification… And thus we get bit perfect transfer or as near as dammit these days. Archimago musings have some interesting information on the Ethernet interface worth a read… Of course this does not support the belief that a cable 2 or 3 buffers away from the DAC can change the sound, I am still waiting for some mechanism to be put forward for this… as well as mains and DC cables and how they can influence the sound… Never mind copper vs silver… Oh and cable directivity, that’s a proper hernia inducer.

Though I must admit the claims on some audio cable manufacturer’s sites do amuse one…

Same with any other cable whether its DC, mains, speaker cable… all well studies, including their effects on the signal or supply. We have been studying cables and their effects on signals for well over a hundred years, as well as noise, because that’s the usual suspect for why cables sound so different… If high end audio kit is prone to noise having such an effect or is so unstable that cables cause issues then I’m glad those concerned are designing something benign and not something critical.

There is of course a financial benefit for audio cable companies to promote cable myths, a big financial incentive… Not that that has any influence…

Just remember many millions don’t hear cable differences, if we are playing a numbers game.

 

And this thread is about possible SMPS noise, hence my original post showing how noise can get into systems, sorry the usual thread noise has distracted from the initial discussion.

OT Stuff!

I am a great believer in separation and filtering down the power delivery chain, from source to destination. Without becoming over obsessive regarding the end requirements (over engineering to a degree is good, but can become as problematic as under engineering if it goes too far… overly complex systems are more likely to break or induce their own problems so KISS).

 

[marce]

20 hours ago, semente said:

Found it here.

 

Legend: A received digital signal may be impaired by noise and distortions without necessarily affecting the digits.

 

With a bit rate of 5,644,800 bits per second per channel for DSD128 (I hope I didn't get this wrong) what's the chance of noise interference flipping a few bits over USB (I'm assuming perhaps wrongly that USB doesn't check for the accuracy of the transmission)?

What would a flipped bit sound like?

 

Would the extra effort required to process a noisy signal affect D/A conversion?

Would the extra effort required to process a noisy signal affect the analogue ouput noise-floor or something else?

Can this be measured by say checking the amount of energy required for processing (f that makes sense at all)?

 

Again, I'm merely a curious layman (a nice word for ignorant), be gentle.

This is what the field of signal integrity is about... The Wikki page is very basic.

I'll try and find some basic stuff.

[marce]

Try this...

http://www.ee.cityu.edu.hk/~emc/20130530P1.pdf

 

Its a huge subject and does involve power integrity as well (you can't have good signalling without the correct power delivery system, not talking LPS at the front end here). The trouble is finding something really basic as everything is geared towards EE's and presumes some basic understanding. I am trying to find an introduction pdf from a course on all this I attended in Germany several years ago which is very good, I can find everything but at the moment. Will keep digging though.