ALLO USBridge Signature

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@Allo: are the dimensions and mounting holes of the USBridge Signature compatible with any standards? Are you going to offer a case or a mounting base for the  USBridge Signature? 

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1 hour ago, zacho said:

If i'm not wrong, an aluminium case should be out this week. 

Interesting but according to Allo the USBridge Sig is designed to be an extensible platform:

Quote

you can use a DigiOne / DigiOne Sig to make a full fledge streamer that outputs USB, BNC and coaxial

Thus, I would expect the case to support such extensions and thus be a base rather than a case.

 

Anyway, I think that the approach of building dedicated audio boards based on RPi compute modules is the right way to go. What I would like to see in the end is a dedicated base board that can be extended with high quality USB, S/PDIF, Ethernet, etc. outputs depending on one's needs. The USBridge Sig. is perhaps not already there but it is a first step in the right direction.

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2 hours ago, allo.com said:

USbridge Sig alu cases are in clearance in India , they will start selling this week .

 

 Mounting holes next to RPI connector are compatible with RPI HATs , mounting holes of USBridge corners are compatible with our ALU casing.

 

 USB outputs (USBridge Signature) was our main target . We can assure you , that while this is a 250$ unit , we are fully confident that it will compete with the best of the best (streamers) on USB

 

  Not everyone needs SPIDIF...but if you do , we chose not to reinvent the wheel and make it compatible with Digione.Digione Signature coaxial/BNC digital outputs (that was tested as the lowest jitter device on ASR forum)

 

  At last...Ethernet itself was made to be very quiet. In fact we have 5 LDOs feeding the Axis IC with independent power rails . In addition , we have placed filtering after the isolation transformer with components that just came out last year (common mode chokes for GB Ethernet for noisy auto environments)

Great, will the case work with a DigiOne Signature mounted on the USBridge Sig?

 

I already have a DigiOne and a DigiOne Signature and I do not actually need a clean USB output. But would not mind trying the USBridge Sig if this comes with a case that can accommodate the DigiOne Signature extension and has a fair return policy.

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3 hours ago, uniquesnowflake said:

They will have a case for USBridge + Digione Sig.

Great, thanks. Although for the time being I am not planning further investments in Allo hardware, I am looking forward to see how the new case looks like.

 

The USBridge Sig seems much better than the DigiOne + DigiOne Signature boards, time will tell whether this is the beginning of a new line of dedicated audio boards and extensions or just another ad hoc design.

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19 hours ago, allo.com said:

Yes Usbridge Sign with ALU casing is shipping from this week (India) and a next week from EU

 

 https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-player.html

 

Thx you all for your patience .

Does the case have fitting holes for the BNC and RCA outputs of the DigiOne Signature extension of the USBridge Sig? I cannot see any holes for them in the pictures. Thanks, nbpf 

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On 10/5/2019 at 9:28 AM, allo.com said:

You need to order the USB Sig + Digione Sig casing..

Great thanks! 

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1 hour ago, dmormerod said:

Just received my USBridge Sig and installed my DigiOne Sig. looks like there’s a DietPi update but I also noted the comment about the Ethernet driver. Anyone know if the latest update includes the correct Ethernet driver?

 

 Also am I correct in thinking that in order to swap between USB and DigiOne I first need to charger the sound card setting in the Allo GUI before I can change the output device in Roon? If so that seems a tad clunky!

I have a DigiOne Signature but it is mounted on a RPi, not on a USBridge Sig, and I do not use the Allo GUI. I use upmpdcli as a renderer and the RPi is headless. I can control the output of MPD (to the DigiOne Signature only, to a USB DAC only, to both, etc.) on the fly with mpc or ncmpcpp.   

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7 minutes ago, uniquesnowflake said:

 

I hear ya. My Pi/Digione Sig is damn good too, esp with the Shanti. 

 

If you hear a noticeable difference between the stock adapter and a high quality PS powering the dirty side, then the Audiophile Pi should be a worthwhile upgrade. I can't verify that (yet) since I'm in Paris and my "Pi Sig" just arrived in Taiwan, but speaking from experience*, the massive overhaul to power delivery and robust ethernet implementation is bound to bring about significant improvements.

 

*SoTM audophile switches and Pi without DC converters sound better than their mundane counterparts. Maybe I'm crazy

But if you connect a USB stick or a SSD to the USBridge Sig you might still have a DC converter, I'm afraid. Generally speaking, I very much like the Allo approach. But I do not understand why they have decided not have WiFi on board in the USBridge Sig. This is, in my view, completely nonsense and the main reason why I am not going to order a unit. I also do not like the fact that in the case for the USBridge Sig + DigiOne Signature they have yet another kind of connector with yet another cable connecting this connector to the USB-C connector of the clean side. This is lack of modularity and rather poor engineering, in my view. Just my two cents, of course. 

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18 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

AFAIK, with on board WiFi you can not use an aluminum case without external antennae. 

External antennae would increase price and complexity.

...

Sure, but an external antenna would allow to use the USBridge Sig in environments where a wired connection is not possible or to use it as an integrated server + renderer solution. I am afraid that the USBridge Sig is another half backed solution like the DigiOne Signature. Great devices if they happen to fit one's need  but at the same time missed opportunities to build a really modular platform with upgradeable components and a future proof design.

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25 minutes ago, uniquesnowflake said:

 

The Audiophile Pi is perfect for my setup (ethernet, streaming from server), but I can see why it doesn't work out for you. Allo mentioned a WiFi dongle that would be available separately somewhere down the line. 

 

I dislike excess connectors myself, especially USB types for power. I plan on bypassing the Type-C connector on the clean side and go straight from the 5.5x2.1mm connector to PCB.

 

Still, while the USBridge+Dig Sig case is not as elegant as I hoped, I don't really fault Allo as the Digione Sig was released more than a year ago. 

Perhaps they will eventually come out with a new DigiOne Signature board that better fits the board of the USBridge Sig. Or with yet another different small board. We will see, time will tell ...  

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4 hours ago, Tintinabulum said:

I wouldn’t call them half baked just because they don’t suit your usage. Most people are wired and adding Digione is an incidental plus. I think they target a user type and produce a product. Seems like a fair model. Prices are still good. More add ons increase price. They have picked their market.

I am not calling the products half baked because they do not suit my usage. The DigiOne Signature perfectly suits my needs and still I think it's an half backed product.

 

The new USBridge Sig is half baked because, as you point out, adding an S/PDIF output to the board is an incidental plus rather than a well designed modular extension. And because it involves yet another adapter cable and a different connector than the original USB C connector of the DigiOne Signature.  

 

Perhaps  half-baked is not a fitting expression here because all these products work quite nicely by themselves. And I can see the difficulties of a more modular design. Still, I believe that Allo could and should do better. Thus, if they do not manage to manufacture durable, modular products, they should at least offer users the possibility of sending back their old Allo boards and have them recycled in a meaningful way.

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2 minutes ago, senior.god said:

Regarding the critics of the Allo USBridge......

 

What i wonder is why allo use an ethernet-over-usb solution for the ethernet port. I moved from rpi to allo because allo sparky had ( as far as i know) an ethernet port connected (via PCI?) directly without using the USB bus - in opposite to raspberryPi.

The fact that allo has to patch the drivers for the ethernet over usb chipset make me feel they face exactly the same problems which RPI's had in past: performance problems and dropouts at playing highres files, which have to be read in and send out (PCM) over the same usb bus. This was obvious especially with real time kernels.

Has anybody experiences playing highres files with standard kernel?

Has anybody experiences playing highres files with real time kernel?

I do not have a USBridge Sig but wth RPi3 I never had any problem reading from a USB SSD or HDD and sending out to a Shiit Eitr 24bits/192KHz files through the same bus. I currently shut down the USB bus of the RPi3 that hosts my DigiOne Signature and stream from a server to the RPi3 via wireless. Also in this case, streaming of 24bits/192KHz files works flawlessly. I have never tried extensive tests of streaming via LAN and sending out to the Eitr via USB thus using the same bus, however. The above remarks apply both to the standard kernel and to a self compiled RT kernel. At the moment I am not using the RT kernel anymore. I think that the RPi4 has an Ethernet on-board, not Ethernet-over-usb but I might be mistaken.

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11 hours ago, allo.com said:

Hello Nfbf

...

Meanwhile , there are always other choices in the market , if our product does not suit you.

Sure, I am actually very happy with the DigiOne Signature on a very low power RPi3. Still, it would be nice to have a audiophile mainboard that can be extended with clean USB outputs, clean S/PDIF outputs, high quality Ethernet and wireless interfaces according to one's specific needs. The USBridge is a first step in the right direction but I very much hope that a more modular design will emerge at a certain point.

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With 1TB micro SD cards starting to become available at (hopefully soon) affordable prices, would it make sense to store one's music library on the SD card? This would make data transfer across the LAN at replay time unnecessary and allow one to shut down a number of services on the USBridge Sig. What do you think?  

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6 hours ago, allo.com said:

Hi Biosailor

 

  we do not recommend connecting a SSD to USbridge Sig direct . You should use a hub between them .

Why not? I have a 1TB Samsung T5 connected to the RPi3 that hosts my DigiOne Signature and streaming from the T5 (via MinimServer running on that RPi3)  sounds at least as good as streaming from another LAN server also running MinimServer. What's the problem with the USBridge Sig?  

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2 minutes ago, biosailor said:

Just streaming from my library on my Mac Mini to moOde. Amazing how much better the sound is when compared to an SSD drive attached directly to the USBridge Sig. 

That's quite bizarre and does not speak for the USBridge Sig, in my view. I thought that the major goal of the USBridge Sig was to decouple its dedicated USB audio output from the other USB ports. If attaching an USB SSD drive has such a detrimental impact on the sound quality of the USB audio output, that this goal has not been achieved. Am I missing something? 

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6 minutes ago, allo.com said:

No problem as such.

 

  But from an engineering point of view , your SSD is a load. In fact at a minimum of 3W (rather low) your SSD will introduce noise in the USB hub. Not only on the DATA lines (rx tx) but also on the power lines (if you feed it from USB)

 

  Now on Digi Sig , there is a separation of power and Gnd, so its better

 

  Usbridge Sig (USB side) is same. No separation . Use a noisy device on USB ports and it WILL bleed

But then what is the point of having additional USB ports in the USBridge Sig if connecting USB devices to these ports has a detrimental effect on the dedicated USB audio output?

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2 minutes ago, nbpf said:

But then what is the point of having additional USB ports in the USBridge Sig if connecting USB devices to these ports has a detrimental effect on the dedicated USB audio output?

Apologies for the overlapping posts! I understand from your explanations that the additional USB ports are there for convenience and should ideally not be used if the dedicated USB audio output of the USBridge Sig is in use. What about storing a music library on the micro SD card? 512GB card are now available at affordable prices and one would have no additional loads or switching regulators. 

 

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2 minutes ago, allo.com said:

Great solution...but (always a but)

 

  Your OS is loading from same source .

 

I am not a real software guy but always take care to separate my OS and my DATA. Use a USB key for your music (my 2 c)

You can store the OS and the music collection on different partitions of the micro SD card if you wish to do so. But a USB stick for the data would yield the same problems of a SSD drive, I would expect. Thus, since you have recommended not to use an SSD drive, I would expect you to also recommend not to use a USB key. Am I missing something? 

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2 minutes ago, allo.com said:

Again... yes. Sorry I don't mean to sound like a professor , but I love what I do .

 

  SSD has switching regulators , Usb sticks have linear regulators..simply because linear reg are cheaper (and we are talking few cents)

 

 In a world  thats dictated by price , USB keys are better for audio .

Thanks for the clarification!

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16 hours ago, suzywong said:

My thanks here to Allan (Aprobin) for his assistance with mounting my existing DigiOneSig onto a USBridgeSig.

 

@Allo

You need to include details of the diode(s) mod in your documentation.

OTOH, delivery from Europe to the UK was phenomenally quick - ordered following Boris’s shenanigans in Parliament on Tuesday, delivered on Thursday!

 

Thanks to all.

 

oh, and I almost forget, the ADS+UBS combo sounds pretty d@mn fine!

I am interested in assessing the advantages/disadvantages of using a USBridge Sig instead of a off-the-shelf RPi3 or RPi4 as host system for a DigiOne Signature, please also see   

.What is your take after having tried the DigiOne Signature on the USBridge Sig? Have you found significant differences in sound quality, usability, etc.? Will you leave your DigiOne Signature on the USBridge Sig or put it back on a RPi? Thanks, nbpf 

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On 10/24/2019 at 10:26 PM, matthias said:

 

For streaming from Qobuz the best solution for me:

 

WiFi >>>Mac>>>wired ethernet>>>USBridge Sig>>>Revolution DAC

 

Matt

Interesting, I have never heard of the Revolution DAC. Who is the manufacturer? Any pointer or specifications? Thanks, nbpf 

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@seeteeyou, @matthias: thanks for the clarifications. Thus, what are you currently using as DACs and @matthias, why do you think that WiFi > Mac > wired ethernet > USBridge Sig > Revolution DAC will be the best solution for you?

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6 minutes ago, Aprobin said:

some further thoughts about this ... Unison USB in it’s current form for sure won’t be Schiit’s last word for USB, hence the decision to make the Bifrost 2’s USB input module modular and upgradeable. And will we see a clean-powered USB HAT for the USBridgeSig from Allo in the future? I don’t think the USBridgeSig is the last word either. Always room for improvement. I think SPDIF and USB will continue to play cat and mouse for some time to come

I very much hope that the USBridgeSig is the last Allo word! What i would like to see is a board without any hard wired interfaces that can be extended with USB, S/PDIF, wired and wireless ethernet, etc. ports according to the users' needs.  

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7 hours ago, nbpf said:

I very much hope that the USBridgeSig is the last Allo word! What i would like to see is a board without any hard wired interfaces that can be extended with USB, S/PDIF, wired and wireless ethernet, etc. ports according to the users' needs.  

Sorry for the confusion: what I meant to say is that I very much hope that the USBridgeSig is not the last Allo word!