Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[biosailor]

4 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Did you map/add your drive in Roon first? 

Good idea! Will try that later and report back.

[biosailor]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Agree. I can't get UPNP under Stylus to work with an Oppo103 as endpoint

 

I guess at one point they'll manage to get it working!

[biosailor]

Same here, Stylus works now perfectly well with RopieeeXL on a Raspberry Pi 4.

 

Great work, Euphony Team!

[biosailor]

1 hour ago, maxst67 said:

Not knowing ropieee I did not understand well if to use it with Euphony on rpi4 as EP I must necessarily use Roon or do it through Stilus ... Thanks

RopieeeXL did work when you ran Roon via Euphony as Roon takes over control. Roon connects perfectly well with Ropieee(XL).

 

But till very recently, Stylus did not work with RopieeeXL. By ticking the box: detect UPnP devices, Stylus did detect RopieeeXL, but couldn’t play through it. Zeljco resolved the issue now and you can use Stylus to stream to a Raspberry Pi running RopieeeXL.

 

That‘s great news! Well done Euphony Team!

[biosailor]

15 minutes ago, maxst67 said:

I tried to install ropieee and run rpi4 as EP with Stylus and everything works (Stylus sees RopieeeXL) except for the fact that I connect the rpi4 in i2s mode stylus does not play ... how should I set the output of the dac in ropieeeXL, I tried to insert rpi i2s in the HAT box but there is no sound ..... any advice in the configuration? Thank you

As far as I know, RopieeeXL is only USB out.

[biosailor]

23 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

@maxst67 @biosailor it can output to a SPDiF hat too

The update with which Euphony will work as expected with upnp endpoint is not yet publicly available, that’s why it doesn’t work for now

Yes, of course, various HATs are available. It‘ll be interesting to see if they all play along with Euphony.

[biosailor]

21 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Playing around now with UPNP streaming to the Oppo 103 from Stylus. I've moved the Stylus server to a GigE port on the EtherRegen and connected

the Oppo to the "moated" FE port, using coax over AQ Eagle eye to a Mojo. Dynamics, transients, and tone color are good but I'm having an issue with

songs terminating in the middle, abruptly switching to next song, encountered same last night using wifi with Stylus on the FE port of the Regen.

Really like what I'm hearing, no digital nasties with the Oppo coax out but not the same detail resolution of going USB from server to DAC,

much better sound then when I used UPNP in the past

 

I had exactly the same issue, sometimes, a track would jump abruptly to the next, sometimes I could not start the track because Stylus was unresponsive. I had to wait a while and it would resume again.

 

This was on a MacBook Air > Ethernet > Raspi 4 running RopieeeXL > USB > Devialet. I took my MacBook from my office and re-installed it next to my stereo rack in the living room so that it is connected straight via USB to the Devialet. Works like charm now.

 

It looks like there are some pending issues with UPnP.

 

I don‘t hear much of a difference between RopieeeXL > USB and MacBook Air USB, somehow I prefer the latter. But no hard proofs to rely on!

[biosailor]

BTW, I am just now running Roon within Euphony on MacBook Air > Ethernet > Raspi 4B running VitOS > USB Devialet.

 

VitOS is an OS for Raspi 4 developed by Thunder Data Ltd. with a Roon brdge. Now THAT is good sound!!,

[biosailor]

5 hours ago, davide256 said:

I’ve found a workaround. Setting song position update to never allows songs to play completely with UPNP

Very good idea, I tried it and so far no problems in streaming to my Raspi. Well done! I keep looking into it.

[biosailor]

18 hours ago, al2813 said:

Quick question. I sent a mail to support as well but not sure if they will answer on Sunday. I just purchased the Stylus licence (ouch after adding EU VAT) which means I can now move my Euphony drive to my internal system dedicated SSD. Is there a process to do this? I am not 100%, and I want to avoid a fresh setup if I can. 

You can store Euphony OS into the internal drive of your system. Once you have a registered version, it‘ll ask if you want to store it internally. If you do so, your system will start from the internal drive, so no need for a USB flash drive any more.

I did that on my MacBook Air. I‘m not sure if I‘ll ever be able to revert to Mac OS, but it’s an old Mac, so it won’t be used for anything else anymore.

[biosailor]

5 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

This is a basic question that probably is answered in this 75 page thread, but I was confused by something that I perceived to be a conflict between the Euphony website and the user grid.  If I were to try Euphony, it would be installed on a NUC and used to stream from a NAS to Sonore rendus over ethernet rather than over the NUC's USB bus to a connected DAC.  The Euphony site says it requires a DAC connected by USB but the user guide tosses off a reference to enabling upnp without really articulating the use case.  So, can Euphony be used to stream to a upnp device or must it be connected to the DAC by USB cable?

I don’t know about the Sonore rendus, but Euphony Stylus streams perfectly well to a Raspi 4B running RopieeeXL. Just activate detect UPnP devices in one of the menus. I needed to install the latest RopieeeXL update to make it work seamlessly.

[biosailor]

13 minutes ago, maxst67 said:

So RopieeeXL works even if rpi4 is connected via i2s to the dac?

That I don’t know, mine is USB to DAC. Just try and you‘ll see.

[biosailor]

1 hour ago, maxst67 said:

Tried Euphony and RoPieeexl with Rpi4 with i2s output: It works ..... thanks Euphony I didn't have time to figure out which of the two configurations is better ..... but the important thing is that it works 😍

Super! I don’t know what the two configs are, but good to know I2S works!

[biosailor]

17 hours ago, maxst67 said:

Sorry I was too concise ..... I meant One pc configuration with Stylus VS Stylus + Ropieeexl configuration in i2s

And, do you hear a difference?

[biosailor]

3 minutes ago, maxst67 said:

I don't know if it's just suggestion (obviously I don't think it is ironic) but with this latest version I have a slight listening fatigue that was previously absent, as if the previously pleasant balance has shifted towards an excessive subtlety of sound and harshness of the high tones .... I really hope the Euphony developers take action ....any of you have news about it?

I must come to Euphony‘s rescue, maybe I‘m the only one. I agree, Stylus sounds a bit leaner than in the previous version. As a matter of fact, I like it. Previously, although great sound, I thought Stylus sounds sometimes too lush, too much smoothness. I like it the way it is now, livelier and faster. But never to the extent of causing harshness leading to listening fatigue. 
 

With Roon, I often encounter listening fatigue and it is terribly bass-shy!

 

So for me, all good, though I have no information as to Euphony‘s attitude regarding future updates and sound quality.

[biosailor]

And very important, with the present update, I am able to distinguish between good recordings and bad ones. In the previous version, everything was glossed over with a ‚euphonic‘ wand and everything sounded good. Now I pick again those details that let me decide if the recording is good or bad. For me, a good development.

 

I never tried ramroot, though I might at one point.

[biosailor]

24 minutes ago, maxst67 said:

At this point, if the Euphony developers listened to us, it would be nice if everyone could choose their favorite version .... Maybe I'm asking too much☺️

Ha, ha, good idea! Poor Euphony people, coming to think of it.

 

In essence, it’s simple. A player should faithfully reproduce what‘s there, adding nothing, removing nothing!

 

Alas, if it were this simple. Here comes the listener‘s personal preference into the play, just as we see all the diverging opinions whenever there’s an update.

 

So maybe your suggestion is perfect, we‘ll live with

 

,The truthful‘ Stylus

,The euphonic Stylus‘

,The fatigue-less Stylus‘ etc

 

😀

 

 

[biosailor]

1 hour ago, Speedy381 said:

It is the same story with my DAC, a PSaudio Directstream. It is very well supported by the developer and factory and free firmware appears every few months. It is generally an improvement, but there are usually dissenters who prefer earlier releases. Or those who reconfigure their system to play to the new strengths of the DAC. The developer is an engineer who is seeking ways of streamlining the processes or optimising the functionality. The change in sound is not necessarily desired, expected or understood, but it's there every time. 

I don't feel this change however is one I wish to pander to and I don't feel I can reconfigure my system to work with it. Unless I start to play with dsp, like my phono stage does. 

 

True, very true! Interesting that software changes unintentionally alter the sound. There's still some 'mystery' behind digital audio.

 

The same discussion is going on over at the Roon user forum whether there's a sound quality change with the Roon 1.8 update.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-sound-quality-change/141309

 

[biosailor]

5 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

It's worth experimenting with the EXACT lower speed (I only ever change the "Max" value to change this):

 

My 7i7DN has a base speed of 1.9Ghz, with 4.2Ghz in Turbo mode.

For the past year, my preferred range has been between 1.0-1.5 Ghz, and going below or above this range does not improve SQ. More recently, I've honed in on 1.2Ghz as being the clarity/warmth sweet spot. Going lower than this loses warmth, and above this it gets a bit smeary. Jumping straight to Turbo also sounds good, but I avoid this because any potential subtle benefits do not justify the much higher core temperatures.

 

The above differences are subtle, but worthwhile. A bigger difference in changing the character of the sound is when I enabled Hyperthreading to give a warmer sound. There are so many variables involved here as to what affects what. I use:

 

    CPU 1.2Ghz, Hyperthreading on, [0, 1-7 gstp] core isolation, Ramroot on 4GB Apacer 2400 RAM, wifi networking...

 

... and I'm not getting the brightness issues with the '116/117 releases that others are getting. Maybe my system config is just too warm and unresolving to notice the difference?

 

(BTW, the consensus around here is that, the higher the CPU speed, the more important is the quality of the power supply to avoid brightness. My top-quality PH SR7 p/s removes this particular variable from the equation).

I just tried to play a bit with CPU frequencies. With the CPU max set to 1.2 GHz, my MacBook Air typically runs at 1.05 GHz. Going down to 0.8 GHz as max CPU frequency keeps the CPU running at exactly 0.8 GHz. Lowering the max frequency to 0.6 GHz, however, leaves the CPU running at 0.8 GHz. Obviously, there’s a lower limit to which one can go, at least with my Mac.

 

Needless to say that I hear no difference whatsoever between 1.05 and 0.8 GHz on my Mac. I leave it at 0.8 GHz though, as it lowers CPU temperature by about 2 degs.

 

Would you mind elaborating a bit on hyperthreading, gstp, and Core isolation? Sorry, newbie here!

 

Regards, Paul 

[biosailor]

3 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

Typical CPUs have a number of physical cores (mine has 4) which spread the workload. Hyperthreading enables a greater number of virtual cores (mine has 8) which further spread the workload across the physical cores, with the CPU balancing the workload across all these virtual and physical cores. In recent published screenshots, you can see the load readings on 8 virtual cores, but there are only 4 temperature readings because only the physical cores have relevance for temperature. 

 

With core isolation, you can influence the spread of workload by allocating specific processes to specific cores, thereby isolating the music processes from other workloads, thereby subtly improving SQ. Core numbering starts from 0. Key process names are "stylus" the UI, "gstp" the lower-level process that actually plays the music. Other processes for roon etc.

 

A typical example of [0-1, 2-3 stylus, 4-8 gstp] means that gstp is allocated cores 4-8, stylus 2-3 and "everything else" is allocated cores 0-1.

In my own case [0, 1-7 gstp], the allocation is heavily stacked in favour of gstp, with everything else (including stylus) all crammed into virtual core 0 (which is half of physical core 0) because that's what sounds best. This does put a big burden on core 0, but not a problem because of the low CPU speeds means inherently low temperatures. At turno speeds, this could be a problem.

 

The explanation has evolved over many threads. Best to use the search function to read a few of them and get the hang of it.

One useful shortcut: If you hit the apply key without entering anything in the field, you'll see what the current core allocations are (without changing anything).

Thanks for taking the time to explain things! I‘ll search the user forum more deeply regarding hyperthreading.

 

Much appreciated!

[biosailor]

4 hours ago, frederick184 said:

I’m going direct to DAC from my server, and with the latest release, I find that Roon core sounds better than Stylus by far.  I find Stylus muddy and indistinct by comparison.  Anyone else find this?

 

Colin

It’s strange to see the huge span of opinions when it comes to digital audio! I myself never liked Roon Core with regards to sound quality. It’s got a great UI, but in my system, and I stress the fact in my system, Roon always sounded anaemic, flat and unengaging. Most importantly, it was bass shy!

Eupgony stylus turned out to be in my system a revelation. All of a sudden, the sound was enjoyable again, full, lively, and the spatial resolution was just stunning! Stylus is debated again whether it didn’t lose a bit of SQ with the latest upgrades, but for me it sounds just perfect!

I must say that running Roon Core from Euphony improved Roon’s SQ quit a bit, but not to the level of Stylus.

These impressions might be caused by my system, and thinking of the quite complex route (MacBook Air > Ethernet > Raspberry Pi 4B running RopieeeXL > USB > Devialet), others may well get completely different perception of SQ depending on their system. So if Stylus is my favorite, it doesn’t need to be someone else’s favorite!

[biosailor]

33 minutes ago, frederick184 said:

Yes, the Roon core is running on Euphony OS

 

Yes, in my system Stylus is ok but not great.  As soon as I switched to Roon I couldn’t believe the difference, but then it could just be the makeup of my system.  All I know is I’m enjoying the music.  
 

Colin

That’s the most important thing! Keep enjoying it!

[biosailor]

2 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Does anyone have difficulty with Stylus either not playing song after song consecutively in the queue or just have a general difficulty playing songs at all?

 

I use Stylus with HQP Embedded.  I buffer each song 100%.  I almost never get a consistent listening experience.  Always struggling to get songs to play.  Not sure if it's Stylus, HQP or both.

I did have problems with Stylus initially inasmuch as it tended to skip the first track and started playing from track two on. Not consistently, but quite often. Sometimes, but rarely, it would stop after a track and not proceed to the next one.

 

I submitted a ticket to Euphony Audio and Zeljko found the problem (he talked of a weird timing problem). I suggest you submit a ticket, too?

 

Keep my fingers crossed that the problem can be fixed.

[biosailor]

32 minutes ago, flkin said:

Not to worry, it seems that our discussions has reached the ears that matter. And efforts are afoot to bring back the euphoric Euphony we all love. 😄

 

You mean the euphonic euphoric Euphony 🤣

[biosailor]

Quick question: is it possible to use Euphony Stylus for a DAC connected via Ethernet? Or is Stylus only for USB DACs? Running Roon Core via Euphony has no problems in connecting to my DAC via Ethernet, but Stylus doesn't detect it.

 

The DAC, btw, is a Devialet that is connected to the same network as Euphony.