IMac versus Mac Mini and iPad controller?

[volante]

I want to set up a Mac based music system in my study which will be firewired across the room (about 4-5m length) to a Weiss DAC 202 which will be coupled to a good hifi system both of which are on the other side of the room.

 

I have read many threads on this very useful forum to work out my optimum set up and have boiled it down to a couple of options but have some questions. I will probably use Amarra Mini software by the way.

 

I am not clear whether I should simply buy a new iMac (4gb RAM and 1TB) together with ext HD and have that on my desk which is then firewired to the Weiss which would be a simple solution but I would also be running my office work on the iMac as I don't want two computers on my desk. My current Sony Vaio which I use for office stuff would then be retired. If I go this route is 4Gb RAM enough or should I load up to 8gb because I will be using the processor power for music as well as office stuff although I don't have any other processor hungry programs as I don't do gaming, videos or photos(other than a few), just mostly email and documents and playing music.

 

Alternatively I could buy a headless Mac Mini which would sit next to the Weiss with perhaps a 2TB Iomega mini max as the ext HD and hardwire the Mac Mini to the internet via an ethernet extension cable and switch and I would then continue to use my Sony Vaio for work stuff (it works fine at the moment). Doing it this way means I keep the music separate from my work stuff (does that really matter?) but as the Mac Mini is headless should I buy an iPad and use that to set up the Mac mini and control it from my desk as I don't really want to but a mouse and keyboard just for set up. I understand there are third party apps which allow the iPad to be used in this way but having read a few threads on here which address that question I cannot tell if it works seamlessly with iPad or whether there are any limitations which matter as some of the threads don'tcome to a firm conclusion either way and talking to a tekky chap at Applestore he warned me off the idea saying "I may be disappointed" - whatever that means -he said he could not elaborate!. The iPad is not a computer so I wonder if there are some limitations.

 

Has anybody sucessfully set up and controlled a Mac Mini from an iPad without any problems and if so which apps are best for the purpose?

 

Couple of other related questions do I need to buy a Dyaide d+ fancy firewire as some seem to think a Weiss benefits from using one or is a standard Belkin version good enough and should I avoid using the power pin in the firewire cable by using an appropriate adaptor - does it really make any difference?

Are there any recommendations for a quiet HD which will either sit next to the iMac or under the Mac Mini ( e.g minimax)?.

 

I haven't mentioned a back-up HD but perhaps I could use another 2TB minimax for that if it will connect to the main HD (which may be another minimax)?

 

I appreciate that many of these things are in some way subjective but at the moment I an finding there are too many variations to consider. I am not tekky so quite like just being told what to do!

 

Grateful for some guidance. Thank you, This is a very helpful forum.

 

[RobGoodison]

I've recently gone through a similar, although not identical process (my listening is through headphones).

 

I had an older iMac Aluminium model, that I initially had connected to an Apogee Duet DAC/Headphone amplifier. A 24" screen sitting right next my recliner was overkill, so I decided to go down the headless Mac mini route.

 

I purchased the base 2010 Mac mini model (320GB HDD, 2GB RAM). I connected this to a HDMI equipped TV for the initial set-up, which was basically to reinstall the base Mac OS 10.6.3, update software via Software Update, trim some non-essential services, and install and configure iTunes 10.0.1. The final step, before disconnecting the display and power down, was to switch Bluetooth off, enable Screen Sharing, and install the drivers for the Apogee Duet.

 

After putting into position, and connecting the Apogee Duet, I controlled the Mac mini via Screen Sharing on my Macbook Pro. I've ripped all my CDs on the Mac mini (only around 500) in AIFF format, tagged, and organised to my taste.

 

For smaller CD ripping batches, I'll use the VNC Viewer App (RealVNC Ltd.) on the iPad - just thought for the initial 500 CDs, a proper keyboard would speed things up a little.

 

I have configured iTunes to show the CD. I use VNC Viewer on the iPad to connect to the Mac mini, check/alter tagging information, and import into iTunes, then quit the VNC Viewer App. The whole process takes minutes.

 

I've enabled Home Sharing in iTunes, and I use Apple's V2 Remote App to control the playback.

 

So, to cut a short story long - I've used a combination of headless Mac Mini and an iPad to control (playback and music import) iTunes, with no issues whatsoever. This all happens over a wireless G network (Belkin wireless router).

 

 

 

 

[goldsdad]

Hi volante

 

I can't help with headless setup of Mac Mini, but want to warn that the Iomega MiniMax 2TB isn't as quiet as the Mini, which itself is almost inaudible. The MiniMax does power down and become absolutely silent after a few minutes of not being used, but when in use, the fan is audible during quiet passages of music, although not terribly loud (subjectively speaking, of course). If it had the same kind of fan as the Mini, it would be ideal in the listening room.

 

In fact, I am about to relegate the MiniMax to backup duties only, replacing it with a pair of Iomega eGo Blackbelt 1TB portable drives for playing music. The bus-powered portables, when daisy-chained, may require an externally powered Firewire hub - I won't know until I try them.

 

 

[volante]

Rob and Goldsdad thank you for those comments which are very helpful.

 

Rob, it sounds like you were using an HDMI tv monitor as the screen for set up purposes regarding the Mac Mini but as far as keyboard duties were concerned on set up (e.g when reloading Mac OS 10.6.3 etc) were you using the iPad or the Macbook pro in screen sharing mode and if so why would you need to have used the tv monitor as you could presumably have used the monitor of the Pro or the iPad for that matter, or maybe that was just your preference or maybe I have misunderstood something (quite likely!).

 

Goldsdad, I believe that either with Pure Music of Amarra one can play music from memory mode which i think means that the HD is not whirring away during playback - would that be a solution to potential noise problems with a Minimax do you think? The iomega blackbelt HD's sound interesting so I will check those out as well.

 

Thanks

 

[bottlerocket]

I have an Imac on which I often use Safari, VMware and Mail while listening to Amarra MIni and Itunes wired out to my DAC. These other functions do impact the sound, especially with Amarra's buggy playlist function. For example, when I load a new page in Safari, I can hear a slight click when the page is loaded. (I should note this is probably the case with just Itunes and no Amarra also) The more going on the page, the more likely you will hear a split second bit of static. Suspending Vmware is also something that can wig out Amarra. Personally this is not a big impact for me and it has not caused me to rush out and buy a Mini, but just making you aware. And of course, you always have the option of shutting down apps on your Imac.

 

The second point is that Amarra's playlist function (memory play) has its quirks. It is not that hard to get it out of sync with Audio Midi and get double speed output. I also get tracks ending mid track and skipping to the next sometimes. To be fair to Sonic Studios, they do recommend using a dedicated server, and I am ignoring that advice. The problems may well be related to the other activity on my machine.

 

For me, getting a Mini for the listening room and another for the office just seemed over the top, so I live with the small downside. You get a lot for your money with the Imac.

 

 

[goldsdad]

I'e just timed the MiniMax as requiring almost 7 minutes of inactivity until it auto powers down with a slight clunk noise. When restarting, it begins with about a one second squeal-like sound (which seems designed to indicate that it is coming awake, and not a fault) followed by two or three seconds coming up to speed before being accessible.

I suspect you'd do better, noise-wise, with another solution. My choice is to try fanless portable drives, whereas some people use a NAS to get the drives out of the listening room.

 

 

 

[RobGoodison]

I had an old USB keyboard and mouse knocking around, so used them for the initial setup.

 

You'd need to use them for the initial setup - user account info, wireless network settings etc. (at least I did as I have ESSID hidden)...YMMV to the extent of having to use keyboard/mouse input depending on your setup.

 

AFAIK...you'll need a USB keyboard, or Bluetooth keyboard for initial setup. Once Screen Sharing/VNC is configured, you can put them away.

 

I have a Western Digital Passport Studio 500GB external HDD (2.5"; bus powered) that I use for music backup - the entire rig is some 2 feet away from my listening position, and is virtually silent in use.

 

When I get round to ripping all 1200 CDs...I'll probably go for a Lacie Little Big Disk....another bus powered device - and move the iTunes library to that, although I'm toying with getting rid of a lot of music that I don't listen to, or have bought just to complete a certain artist's back catalogue.

 

 

[volante]

Thank you to all for their useful comments.

 

neil

 

[volante]

Thanks again to all for their helpful advice.

 

I have acquired most of the following components for the system:

 

1.Weiss DAC 202 (s/h) -to be conneceted to Viva Solista amp (or TAP-X plus Croft power amp) and Loth-X speakers

2. Mac Mini (2Gb) running OSX and to be connected to internet by ethernet switch - 2Gb is the base version will that be enough or do I really need to add another 2Gb to make 4Gb?

3. iPad to act as controller using a VNC or similar app

4. Drobo FS nas (expensive but I can also use this as back-up for my home office files (from my Sony Vaio conected to same ethernet network) as well as music ) to be connected to my router in large cupboard or to the ethernet switch nearer to my desk so it is networked with the Mac Mini - Drobo will be arriving any day now

5. Firewire between Mac Mini and DAC (just a QED one for the moment)

6. I will trial the Amarra Mini system and see how that goes.

 

With regard to set-up of the Mac Mini i will be following the very useful CA 03 set up guidelines on this forum

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Build-Audiophile-Music-Server-CA03

 

Thank goodness for this forum, without it some of us wouldn't even know what questions to ask let alone know the answers!

 

Apart from following that guidance are there any other things I need to think about, e.g the order in which I set things up? is it esy to use the Drobo as back up for my home office stuff as well as music? I assume I need to create different storage/back up files for music on one hand and office stuff on the other hand.

 

The Mac Mini will be straight out of the box so no doubt it will ask me all sorts of configuration questions as well as my inside leg measurement -this will be my first Mac experience as I have used Windows up to now!

 

I have only a few songs in my existing iTunes file on my Sony Vaio which will be conneceted to the same network by ethernet cable. Only a couple have been downloaded from internet - the others are ripped so can simply be ripped again onto the new iTunes file on the Mac Mini as there are not many. I am assuming it would be better simply to start afresh with the new iTunes file on the Mini rather than getting involved in trying to transfer the existing small iTunes library to the new iTunes library which will be kept on the Drobo? I may lose the few downloaded songs but they are so few that it does not really matter or is it esy to transfer those over?

 

Any guidance would again be appreciated - apologies in advance for any seemingly dumb questions in this post.

Thanks

 

neil

 

[dummy]

Regarding ripping, since you already have an Windows Sony machine, I strongly suggest that you have a look at Chris ripping methodology article here.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-CD-Ripping-Strategy-and-Methodology

 

Being a newbie like you, so far, It is the thing that helped me the most and is a sure thing. I've had to re-read It a couple of times (I'm french) but once I got It, It is pretty easy and troublefree.

 

The very cool part is that It's accurate so regardless the changes you make in the future, you won't have to rip again your music. Also, the pretty cool part is the multi-encoder. You do your settings right the first time around and you rip only once to any formats and to any hard drives you want, all with one clic, one time only.

 

It cost 38$ (I think) to download but you can get a 20 days free trial. I believe It only works with Windows though. Maybe It does work on a Mac with Bootcamp or Parallel but I don't have a Mac so cannot be sure of that.

 

Of course, there are other ripping programs for Mac but this one is pretty slick and hassle free.

 

As I said, I am a newbie like you, on a Windows though, and everyday I learn and try something new, not always impressed or sure of the merits, but this is the only thing so far that truly is working great and flawlessly. Just get your settings right the first time If you go that route. Also, beware how you set your settings for the directory structure. It took me a few times to get It as I wanted but the possibilities are endless.

 

Just my 2 cents here.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

[nigel]

2. Mac Mini (2Gb) running OSX and to be connected to internet by ethernet switch - 2Gb is the base version will that be enough or do I really need to add another 2Gb to make 4Gb?

 

OSX has a utility application called Activity Monitor, which you will find in the Utilities folder inside the Applications folder. While running whatever software you will be using to listen to music (iTunes, for example), start the Activity Monitor and click on the System Memory tab (towards the bottom of the main window). This will show you a pie chart of the memory usage. If there is plenty of free memory (green), you don't need any more memory.

 

is it esy to use the Drobo as back up for my home office stuff as well as music? I assume I need to create different storage/back up files for music on one hand and office stuff on the other hand.

 

Yes, just create separate folders on the Drobo for music and other stuff, then make sure your iTunes Media Folder Location (in Preferences->Advanced) is set to the your Drobo music folder.

 

The Mac Mini will be straight out of the box so no doubt it will ask me all sorts of configuration questions as well as my inside leg measurement -this will be my first Mac experience as I have used Windows up to now!

 

I think you'll find it pretty easy to configure out of the box. If you haven't used a Mac before, you may find it helpful to look at the "Mac 101" and "Switch 101" tutorials at http://www.apple.com/support/

 

I am assuming it would be better simply to start afresh with the new iTunes file on the Mini rather than getting involved in trying to transfer the existing small iTunes library to the new iTunes library which will be kept on the Drobo?

 

It's easy to transfer your music from your old iTunes on your PC to the new iTunes on your Mac. Make sure both iTunes are running the latest version. Turn on Home Sharing on both iTunes (click on Home Sharing under Sharing on the left of the iTunes window (or under the Advanced menu), and enter your iTunes account info). On your Mac iTunes, you should see your PC appear. Click on it, and you should see all the music from your PC appear in the main window. Select all the music, then click the Import button at the bottom right. Easy!

 

[volante]

Thanks Dummy and thanks Nigel for a very comprehensive answer to my various questions.

 

This forum (and the people on it) is/are such a help.

 

Neil

 

[dummy]

Even though I don't own/have a Mac, regarding the RAM, I *think* I've read a few times here that the more is the better, espacially If you plan on using Pure Music or Amarra.

 

I don't really know why but perhaps those 2 programs use/need more memory or something to work optimally so It might be a good idea to investigate before buying your Mini.

 

That said, I know It is possible to add memory more easily (afterwards) with the new Mini and It might comes cheaper too since Apple is charging quite a premium for It.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

 

[RobGoodison]

I'm using Pure Music 1.6.3, and make use of the 'Memory Play' feature. With 2GB, after I boot Mac OS X and iTunes, I'm left with over 540MB (as reported by Pure Music itself).

 

This leaves enough memory to load an album's worth of music (AIFF, 16 bit, 44.1kHz, if it was tagged as a 'gapless' album).

 

If you have 24bit, 88.2kHz or 96kHz audio files, you'll probably better off with at least 4GB RAM - one thing to note on the Mac mini, it has 2 memory slots, each filled with a 1GB 204-pin SODIMM. To upgrade to 4GB, you'll need 2 x 2GB 204-pin SODIMMs (1066 DDR3).

 

[volante]

Thanks Rob,

 

I understand that you needs to have the two RAM chips of equal memory so as you say to upgrade to 4Gb means buying two more RAM components. Do you/anybody know the cheapest place in the UK to but additional RAM for the Mini Mac, I have seen references in this forum to a good place in the US but as always the UK always seems to be more expensive.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

 

[goldsdad]

4GB (i.e. matched pair of 2GB)

 

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=Kingston+KTA-MB1066K2/4G&hl=en&cid=4391565485394835961&ei=aYKsTKC8Oo70-QaV_pjZAQ&sa=button&ved=0CAwQgggwATgA#p

 

[Audio_ELF]

It's my understanding you can mix RAM chips, but the computer works more efficiently if they are matched.

 

In the UK, try Crucial or Kingston. Maybe not the cheapest but good quality and they will ensure you get the right memory. Or try Amazon.

 

Eloise

 

[RobGoodison]

Hi Neil,

 

I've always got mine from Crucial UK.

 

http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.aspx?model=Mac%20mini%20%28Intel%20Core%202%20Duo%202.4GHz%29%20DDR3%20-%20Mid%202010&pl=Apple&cat=RAM

 

£63.44 inc. VAT and free delivery (Royal Mail Special pre midday).

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

[volante]

Thanks Rob

 

2 x 2Gb ordered from Crucial.

 

neil