Article: dCS Network Bridge Review

[JamesBardsley]

On 6/26/2018 at 10:32 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I would try running the NB straight

Would the NB work into a Naim 272 DAC and preamp?

[JamesBardsley]

12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The Bridge has an S/PDIF output on the same interface so it will work just fine.  

Thanks. The dCS NB is Roon Ready. Does this means it can act as a Roon endpoint, but not run the Roon Core? As I understand it I'd have to get the Roon Core running on a Roon Nucleus or a NUC or a PC or similar as well.

This is important from a budget planning POV as well as a box count, connectivity and technical POV.

I was planning to get the dCS NB instead of Roon.

My worry is that the dCS app will not be good enough to keep me using it forever, so I'll end up on Roon anyway.

If I'm getting Roon anyway, then the MQA unfold comes with that.

So then the dCS NB becomes a very nice but very expensive Roon endpoint.

So really I should spend that budget on a Roon Nucleus and a new DAC that is a Roon endpoint.

Does that make sense?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[JamesBardsley]

19 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The Bridge has an S/PDIF output on the same interface so it will work just fine.  

Thanks. Yes, I looked that up since asking it earlier today.

I think if it's a toss up between Roon and the dCS NB then I should go with the dCS NB as this will cost about the same but it should improve the SQ of my syste significantly more than Roon.

Correct?

 

[JamesBardsley]

15 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Umm- your question confuses me. The dCS is not a competitor for Roon, it is a Roon “endpoint” - like a Rendu, or a computer running the Roon Client. In fact, the dCS is a computer.

 

You will still need Roon, or AirPlay, or one of the various UPnP servers to send music to it.  

 

Hi Paul

I think there is a dCS app that can find Tidal files and control the dCS NB from an iPad.

I understand that they serve many different functions, but I currently have the budget to get one or the other.

Very roughly they cost about the same as for Roon you need something like NUC plus endpoint - in fact, if one gets the Nucleus+ and lifetime fee, then Roon costs more than the dCS NB.

For me SQ is much more important than file access systems, apps, magazine format, etc.

So I'm comparing the SQ uplift of the dCS NB vs the SQ uplift of Roon.

And as far I can tell, the probable SQ uplift of the dCS NB on my current system (which already sounds great) is very likely to be larger than the SQ uplift of getting Roon.

Does that make sense now?

[JamesBardsley]

Hi Paul

 

In the UK the dCS NB RRP is £3250, I think - which translates to around the figure in $ that you mention.

I think the Nucleus is around £1400, IIRC, and the N+ is £2500. But then with Roon there's another $500 fee, plus a storage device, etc. I would guess a NUC or NAS is less, so if you have time and energy to sort it out Roon can indeed be done for £1k.

 

I'm cery interested that you say 'Roon has just about zero effect on playback quality'. I've heard that said numerous times, but I've also heard many other people say it has a significant uplift on SQ.

 

But surely it must have a lot more than zero effect on SQ, because it has room correction, and DSP, and MQA, and various other digital processing aspects which to my understanding are specifcally aimed at changing particualr qualities of the sound.

 

cheers

Jim

[JamesBardsley]

8 hours ago, Paul R said:

you can have Windows format them in such a way the second one mirrors the first automatically

Thanks Paul

I have never heard Roon and have only done a couple of hours of research into what it is and whether to get it.

I've been happy using the Naim app up to now.

So that's a superb primer on how to do get Roon that I will use if I end up getting it.

You should publish that on a site, or make a youtube video of it - you could call yourself Dr Roon, or the Roonulator, or something!

I have to admit that the bit I quoted above is one of the reasons I don't get Roon - it sounds fiddly to set up and maintain.

I see a huge amount of posts online of people who can't get their various machines to work together.

I've just sold my cd and Rega Planar 3 and stripped my whole system down to Tidal into an all Naim system with a Cisco Catalyst 2960 switch.

But I'm going to get a dCS NB now and work with the very plain dCS app first and see where that takes me.

(I need to work out how to transfer the 1000's of Tidal tracks and albums and artists I've stored on the Naim app into the dCS app - of that's even possible??)

I have about 400 CDs, but hardly anything that isn't already on Tidal.

At the moment I'm still in honeymoon mode with Tidal, doing an extensive trawl/explore of new music, esp. old and new jazz.

But at point I'll develop a small library of hi res rips/files for the things I really want to listen to most.

 

One mystery remains, though - why do many people say that Roon gives them a significant uplift in SQ?

thanks

Jim

 

[JamesBardsley]

15 hours ago, lmitche said:

the obtainable level of SQ is spectacular

Can you say whether you think the SQ obtainble using Roon is better than spending the same funds on non-Roon ways of reproducing music?

And if so, why that is?

thanks

Jim

[JamesBardsley]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

I can't say that the same SQ isn't obtainable with non-Roon software. The Roon interface is so good that I won't give that up, and therefore have little recent experience with anything else to compare. I don't like to conjecture, can't say one way or another. 

would this have to be an improvement in SQ via software?

some people with roon say they don't notice much uplift in SQ at all

could you get the same quantum of uplift in SQ via 'hardware'? (although at some level the distinction between hardware and software breaks down)

one example of this is that I 've just bought the dCS Network Bridge (a bundle of hardware and software)

if that gives an uplift in SQ when I plug it in, could that be as great or greater than the uplift I would have got by spending the same budget on Roon-playing hardware and the Roon software??

[JamesBardsley]

48 minutes ago, Paul R said:

separating the hardware server and player makes a huge difference

What do you mean by separating the server and player?

- into different boxes?

- increasing electrical isolation?

- into different rooms?

- as software objects?

 

And how do the words 'server and player' relate to 'bridge, streamer, DAC' in your lexicon?

 

[JamesBardsley]

9 hours ago, Paul R said:

Server - a machine whose purpose is to store music data files, and provide them to clients in a timely and consistent manner. I also tend to want to put the indexing, metadata, and backup chores on to a centralized machine (the server).  Providing files is commonly done over a network. 

 

Player - a machine whose purpose is to accept music files (commonly over a network)  as presented and send those files in a very clean, time ordered stream to a DAC. A player may also have other tasks, such as volume control, interrogating the DAC, and other similar tasks. By itself, it generally has no music to play.  

 

Bridge - this is a device whose purpose is nothing more than to convert one format to another. Typically, we use a wireless "bridge" to connect wireless clients to a wired network, even if that entire network exists only inside a router. In some cases, a "player" also functions as a bridge, converting a network transmission to say, USB for a DAC. The difference is that the player is more than just a bridge. We typically call players "endpoints" these days to avoid the confusion. 

 

Streamer - well technically a "streamer" is a device that streams music to a client (player). But the definition has gotten all loosey goosey over the past few years. Now people call endpoints streamers, because they "stream" content from a server, like Tidal. I have an engineer's brain, which recognizes messy definitions like this, but tends to shy away from them.  

Hey - thanks Paul. That's very helpful.

So by your definitions, the dCS (Data Conversion Systems) Network Bridge is not a bridge - because it does more than mere bridging or data conversion from one format to another.

It's a player (that includes a bridge function). (I'm not sure whether it does volume control or not - but I'd prefer to do that in the preamp in the 272 if possible.)

I currently have no NAS or local store, hence no server (except an old Walkman USB pen drive that sounds rubbish when you stick it in the USB slot in the front of the 272 with a hi res copy of Bitches Brew on it).

The server is Tidal's server somewhere on the net.

The signals also go via the ISP router and then the Cisco Catalyst 2960 switch in my home network. These I suppose also class as bridges.

I pick up the dCS Network Bridge and bring it home tomorrow.

So when I plug it in I'm hoping that it sounds better than the already very nice sounding player in my Naim 272 because:

1. it should have even better ability to process the files than the player in the 272 (if one uses price as a very rough proxy for quality)

2. it's in a separate box so the player and DAC functions should be better isolated electrically (the dCS NB is carefully designed and built to minimise EM noise - I think even more so than the older 272) - and because there will be less processing in fewer circuits of the 272 there should be less electrical noise flying around

3. it transcodes FLAC files from Tidal to WAV, which I think the 272 DAC likes to receive, taking processing pressure off the 272 which has older and less powerful processing power

4. It does an MQA unfold which may or may not sound better (I've never heard MQA) but should process the Tidal Masters files so I can hear them in higher res form than I currently do

 

anyway, that's the theory as I understand it (as a non-engineer).................

 

cheers

Jim

[JamesBardsley]

10 hours ago, Paul R said:

DACs are crazy sensitive to their inputs.

Therefore the better the player, the better the inputs to the DAC.

So - and this may be a trite Q - but could one say that the player is more important than the DAC?

i.e. that 'hell' is less likely to break loose in the DAC if it's getting a nice clean and orderly and very well timed signals from the player?

[JamesBardsley]

5 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

 I would bet your 272 has a nice surprise coming... I expect you you are going to get a really nice SQ jump tomorrow!! 😉

 

...When you get the chance, try some DSD music. I actually transcode Redbook to DSD sometimes because I Ike the sound, and my DACs like it even better.

Thanks Paul - I'll let you know how it goes.

Yes, I'm interested in DSD.

Paul McGowan of PS Audio is v keen on it.

Do you use the DSP fundtions of Roon to transcode Redbook to DSD?

How could that be done without Roon? Just by buying DSD discs or files?

[JamesBardsley]

On 4/24/2019 at 5:55 PM, JamesBardsley said:

 I would bet your 272 has a nice surprise coming... I expect you you are going to get a really nice SQ jump tomorrow!! 😉

Holy Mackerel!

You were spot on.

The Network Bridge has made a big uplift in the sound.

Every track I've listened to (about 40 tracks I know well) sounds much better - as good as I've ever heard them.

Bigger soundstage, better separation, cleaner sound.

But retaining the Naim musicality that I love.

e.g. Max Roach 'The Drum Also Waltzes' - I can hear the physical relationships between the drums and cymbals far better - and each drum and cymbal is crystal clear in itself.

'Miles Beyond' by the Mahavishnu Orchestra - so clean and yet it rocks even more than usual too.

Then my 6 year old son came in - he said it's miles better - listened to Get Lucky by Daft Punk - such a fuller and better sound.

Then my 12 year old daughter came in and played a track by Drake (not Nick Drake) - there was a wierd and amazing twisting bass effect that made it sound like I've got a sub-woofer.

The speakers are into another dimension.

Now all I need is to wire in a dedicated hifi radial and I'm done.

Roon, I'm afraid, is toast for me for the foreseeable future.

The dCS app picked up all my favourites and playlists too.

Huge thanks to everyone on this thread who encouraged to do buy the dCS Network Bridge.

cheers!

Jim

[JamesBardsley]

9 hours ago, Paul R said:

Wait till you hear DSD.  

so that would be available as per your previous post

probably best via Roon?

[you temptress!]

so how would DSD via Roon actually increase my SQ further - by upsampling 44/16 files to higher resolutions/speeds?

[JamesBardsley]

thanks Paul

that'll keep me off the streets for a few more days

Jim

[JamesBardsley]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:18 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

The Bridge has an S/PDIF output on the same interface so it will work just fine. 

Do you know of anyone using a dCS Network Bridge into a Denafrips Terminator?

Do you think that would work well?

The Terminator with its new DSP board can now I think receive dual AES/EBU - does this mean the NB could transfer files at twice the sampling rate to the Terminator? If so, would the dual feed be likely to give better sound than say spdif (which is what I currently use)?

[JamesBardsley]

Sorry I sobered up and did an ABA test and realised that changing my Ciscos had made me misjudge how good the dCS network bridge was.

 

I part exchanged it for a Naim 555DR psu and that Really made a positive difference.

 

am listening to it now................

 

Paul Bley, Charlie Haden and Paul Motian on an all Cisco and Naim system