A crowd funded motherboard(s) for audiophiles - Part 2

[rickca]

11 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

And then we don't even know if 4 slots for the Micro-ATX form factor were even possible to begin with, was that actually confirmed by DFI / Supermicro by any chance?

A typical Z370 mATX motherboard has

 

2 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16 or dual x8) 
2 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x1

[rickca]

I wouldn't count too much on bifurcation.  Besides BIOS support you need cards/drivers that work with it.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Does anyone know the PCIE lane requirements of the Jcat USB and Ethernet?

Both JCAT USB Card Femto and JCAT NET Card Femto:

All x1-x16 lane PCI Express 2.0 slots supported

 

So I guess that means x1 is sufficient.

[rickca]

@lmitche I realize this isn't mATX, but according to Anandtech, on the ASRock X299 Taichi

 the first (of three) PCIe M.2 slots bypasses the DMI3.0 and is directly connected to the CPU, eliminating any potential bottlenecks with that interface

 

I will try to contact ASRock tech support and find out about their mATX Z370M Pro 4 has what we want.  The manual doesn't have a block diagram.  This is a really nice board https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/Z370M Pro4/index.asp#Overview

[rickca]

55 minutes ago, lateboomer said:

I don't doubt the Startech 4-port usb card is doing superb job giving excellent SQ at Larry's system, but is it not 4-port usb card connects a USB 3 nic, USB HDD, and ISO Regen/DAC sharing too many activities and switching between themselves on the same pcie lane? 

It's a 4-port, dual channel, x4 card installed in a PCIe slot that is directly connected to the CPU.  I've got one powered by an external LPS-1.  The ISO REGEN/DAC and USB HDD are on different USB channels.  Typically, the USB3 NIC and USB HDD (for music files) aren't used concurrently.  The USB NIC is used for streaming.

 

I don't use the Optane SSD.  My OS is on an X25-M SSD with a SOtM SATA II filter powered by an external PH SR4.

[rickca]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

So I ask those of you with advanced google skills to search for a lga 1151 MicroATX board with a 1x8+2x4 PCI express direct to CPU configuration.

I don't think such a thing exists.

 

There isn't room on a mATX board for three x16 slots (running as x8/x4/x4) and on ATX boards the 3rd x16 slot invariably goes through the PCH.

[rickca]

57 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

None of my skills are considered advanced by any means but does this P10S-M with Socket LGA 1151 count?

Well, you proved me wrong!  That is a mATX board with x8/x4/x4 all connected to the CPU.  Unfortunately, no M.2 slot.  I guess I've never looked at Xeon boards before.  This is a very unusual configuration.  It supports Xeon E3-1200 V5 and V6 processors.

[rickca]

22 minutes ago, lmitche said:

There is also an Asus z270 ws

Also interesting.  Of course, this board is ATX.  Asus must be working on a Z370 WS.  It would be nice if the first M.2 slot connected to the CPU.  I think this is only possible with Coffee Lake.

[rickca]

OK I had a look at AMD Threadripper CPUs like the 1900X and x399 motherboard.  It gives us everything we want today ... but it's an extended ATX form factor.  Hmm ... the TDP on this monster is 180W!

 

For example, the Asus Prime X399-A motherboard ($300) with a 1900X CPU ($450) gives you the following directly from the CPU:

 

4 x PCIe 3.0 x16 (single@x16, dual@x16/x16, triple@x16/x16/x8 mode)

1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)
1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)

 

There's a nice block diagram in this article

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11685/amd-threadripper-x399-motherboards

 

So my question is ... does AMD have something around TDP 95W with this kind of architecture for PCIe lanes?

 

 

[rickca]

@seeteeyou the Epyc 3000 series looks great but this stuff is so recently announced it's hard to get much information about it.  Have you found a block diagram for the 3000 series like the one you posted for the 7000 series?

 

It's been so long since I followed what AMD is doing.  I guess it's time to wake up.

 

[rickca]

31 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Block diagram on page 17, M.2 slot is only meant for SATA devices so we'll need an adapter for Optane

I didn't see anything saying that the M.2 slot only supports SATA in the H11SSL-I/C/NC manual.  Where did you see this?

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Also all these server processors are multi core around 2Ghz (3Ghz turbo) what do you need for upsampling to

DSD ?

Yes that's the big question for those of us interested in doing DSD512.

[rickca]

Ryzen 7 2700X ($369) is expected 4/19 along with new X470  motherboards.

TDP 105W

Base frequency 3.7 GHz, Max Boost 4.35 GHz

8 cores / 16 threads

 

Also Ryzen 7 2600X ($249)

TDP 95W

Base frequency 3.6 GHz, Max Boost 4.25 GHz

6 cores / 12 threads 

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-2000-desktop-cpu-official-specs-performance-prices-leaked/

[rickca]

On 3/14/2018 at 7:28 PM, wushuliu said:

Hm, y'all may want to avoid any brand new PC builds until the meltdown/spectre issues are resolved. Lot of BSODs out there being reported - just check new mobo reviews for starters. And remember it impacts every cpu built since 1995...

Here is the latest news re Intel fixes.

 

The new chips that Intel is promising will address both security and performance considerations with silicon rather than software, and will be available this year. For the data center, this is the Cascade Lake server processor, and for the consumer and business markets this is known as Cannon Lake. Both will include what Intel is calling “virtual fences” between user and operating system privilege levels and will create a significant additional obstacle for potential vulnerabilities.

 

The chips will also lay the ground work and foundation for future security improvement, providing a method to more easily update the security of the processors through patching.

[rickca]

59 minutes ago, lateboomer said:

I use multiple ext lps with separate rails and transformers for 5v, 3.3v and 12v.

What are you powering with 3.3v?  Can you give some more detail about what LPS you are using and how they are connected to the motherboard/components?

[rickca]

Deleted

[rickca]

1 hour ago, lateboomer said:

Amazon's Q&A section says this 2-port card can run at pcie x 2 with scale down performance.

What 2-port card are you talking about?  

 

Here's what Startech says:

 

Due to the bandwidth requirements of USB 3.1 gen 2 (10Gbps), none of our USB 3.1 gen 2 cards can use a PCIe x1 slot. They require at least a PCIe x4 slot to function. You can use a USB 3.1 gen 1 card (5Gbps) with a PCIe x1 slot however.

 

So you could get a 5Gbps card and put it in your x2 slot.

 

For PEXUSB3S24 Startech card, it says

The maximum throughput of this card is limited by the bus interface.  If used with PCI Express Gen 2.0 enabled computers, the max throughput is 5 Gbps.

 

 

[rickca]

1 hour ago, lateboomer said:

I would like to ask could better SQ be had by using one Startech 2-port 3.1 gen2 card for this Supermicro X10SBA mobo and move the SATA ssd (os + music) and ethernet (not for streaming, only control) to the card? Then I can totally disable SATA port and Lan port together.

I don't know why you would want to do this.  I use the Startech card on an ATX motherboard to get USB ports from a PCIe slot that is directly connected to the CPU rather than the chipset.  You don't have a separate chipset on your X10SBA.  So I really don't know whether what you're proposing would result in better SQ.

[rickca]

Many high end Z370 motherboards are now using ASMedia 3142 which is a performance optimized refinement of the ASMedia 2142 used by the Startech card.  Unfortunately, the USB ports in these motherboard implementations use PCIe lanes from the PCH rather than PCIe lanes connected to the processor.

 

Another recently introduced feature I like is Killer Xtend from Rivet Networks.  This is ideal for those who want a switch right on the motherboard for direct attachment of a network streamer.  It was announced at Computex 2017.

https://www.killernetworking.com/technology/killer-xtend

It's available on the EATX MSI Z370 Godlike Gaming motherboard.  Gigabyte announced an add-in PCIe card with Killer Xtend, but I don't think it has started shipping.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11443/rivet-networks-announces-killer-xtend-turning-a-gaming-pc-into-a-switch-and-wifi-ap 

[rickca]

I still want to see what Asus board Antipodes is using in the CX.  An interesting comment from Antipodes

But high CPU clock rates above a certain level sound bad. So the CX uses a full desktop 4 Core i5 processor, run at a low clock rate, about half of its full speed capability.

 

I want to figure out a way to scale up fantastic sound quality to a decently fast CPU.  Seems to me that you are leading that effort along with guys like SGM and Pink Faun.

[rickca]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

Many processors will let a single core run at a higher frequency then others. This always sounds bad and I disable this in my motherboards.

If you're talking about turbo boost, it is not supported on the J1900 anyway so there's nothing to disable in BIOS.

[rickca]

Lots of new processors announced by Intel today

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12607/intel-expands-8th-gen-core-core-i9-on-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro

 

Also new chipsets (PCH) with integrated 2T2R 802.11ac wifi and native USB 3.1 Gen 2.

[rickca]

@Johnseye I'm not clear about what you want to do with your ASRock board.  Can you please clarify?

[rickca]

Here's a new source of ideas we can look at

http://hifipig.com/innuos-new-zenith-statement-at-axpona-2018/

[rickca]

12 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Avoid using the PCH for the m.2.

 

So does using the PCIe slot with an adapter like @seeteeyou proposed do what you want, or do you have something else you want to use in that slot?