Network Streamers With I2S Output?

[vortecjr]

What are you guys hoping to gain from eliminating USB in your systems?

[vortecjr]

1 minute ago, chsas75 said:

 

Eliminate usb-audio sound quality degradation. I know only Auralic Vega dac what have usb input on level near AES, coax.

You mean trading it for ethernet-audio sound quality degradation.

[vortecjr]

A computer with an operating system is your solution. 

[vortecjr]

All you are doing is placing all the processing for that task inside the DAC versus just the USB to i2s portion in the DAC. I have been looking at the solutions out there and found some high end gear with $12 boards inside them. What do you think you are getting for 12 bucks. 

[vortecjr]

It’s clear what I sell. I have also sold Ethernet to i2s converters so I know them very well and I know what it takes to make them. Adding that process in your DAC makes it more complex not simpler. At the very least all you are doing is trading one protocol for another and then adding the operating system on top all inside your DAC. So processor, ram, FPGA, and operating system versus XMOS chip or some other receiver. Both will need clocks, isolation and power circuits. 

[vortecjr]

An external Ethernet to i2s...fine. Again at the very least all you are doing is trading one protocol for another and then adding jitter by transmitting the signal over wire and via the LVDS conversion process. Having USB to i2s in the DAC is just a better solution overall. 

[vortecjr]

7 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

That would depend on the DAC, would it not? For example, with the DirectStream, the designer says I2S "would be the easiest to get sounding the best" and "USB can easily be the worst".

 

This is an I2S output streamer thread. You don't currently sell a streamer that supports I2S. Is that why you are poo-pooing the idea of streamers with I2S outputs?

Not really. The claim to fame of the PS Audio DS is that all the inputs sound the same. i2s is very easy to to make bad as well. I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that because it's i2s it most be good. There are some really poor implementations out there. Like I said it's clear what I sell and don't. I wouldn't hurt for you to stop being paranoid though...I'm here because I like the topic.

[vortecjr]

7 hours ago, gstew said:

Agreed. Also any of the DACs using an ESS chip with the ASRC enabled (that is most of them) also ignore the clock of the upstream device.

 

OTOH, in my experience, the lower the jitter & noise is on the data lines EVEN in these setups, the better the sound.

 

That can be handled by using an asynchronous reclocker like the one available from poster Ian Canada on DIYAudio in the DAC before the DAC chip. That is what I'm doing in my direct I2S-fed (not I2S over HDMI) DIY implementations of the Twisted Pear Buffalo-IIIPro DAC cards  AND what TAPatrick is doing in his Allo.com Sparky to AudioGD I2S to HDMI output card setup whch will feed his PS Audio DS DAC.

 

Greg in Mississippi

For clarity these devices ignore only the master clock. They still use the bit clock, word clock, and the serial data. FYI On my Buffalo DAC build I use the ASRC setup because it make it easier to run PCM and DSD simultaneously. 

 

Reclocking in the DAC is a great idea and also done by good USB implementations inside the DAC. So where is the net gain from going to this alternate solutions.  

[vortecjr]

7 hours ago, gstew said:

Doesn't the Sonore UltraDigital offer a PS Audio  format I2S over HDMI output? Or am I missing something here?

Greg in Mississippi

Yes we do, but you guys are not interested in USB:)  

[vortecjr]

5 hours ago, MTZ Audio said:

The I2S card i use in my computer is developed by a small Dutch high end audio company called Pink Faun.

They make a lot of high end equipment and sell it through their website: https://www.pinkfaun.com

You can ask them how it works because i am not an engineer.

 

I know they provide a great service.

 

My pc has a basic setup without lineair power supply and it has an old quad core processor. The only things i changed was the cooling and ssd. For me the benefit of using a pc is that u can use different types of software and media players. You don't depend on the software from manufacterers.

I made a short video for youtube where you can see my setup: https://youtu.be/BsKChwXauPs

 

There is an other company that developed a computer based streamer as well. It is called Van Medevoort.

In 2016 they introduced the MP470, a streamer with an I2S output. The OS is windows 10 and the media player is Foobar. So if a high end company as Van Medevoort thinks it's good enough?

I have that card here and Jord Groen from Pink Faun is an industry friend. This is a prime example of one format (USB to i2s) vs another (PCIe to i2s).

 

I'll tell you guys a story later today. 

[vortecjr]

On 3/3/2018 at 2:01 PM, tapatrick said:

To confirm what Greg says here, I tried a WavIO USB to I2S converter with an Audio g-d HDMI I2S module into my PS Audio Junior DAC and the result was impressive. I've also been using Lucians new Bluwave USB to Spdif board into my DAC as well. This is also stunning due to the isolation and the quality of the oscillators on the Bluewave.

 

These 2 results set me on the path to find the best input and I'm working on a Sparky Roon streamer chain including Ian Canadas reclocker and isolators boards plus an Audio g-d HDMI module (to sidestep the usb to I2S stage). This is still in progress as I had some Linux programming to learn about plus glitches with my Audio g-d module and an LT3045 3.3v regulator. Its not been smooth but new items are in the post, so hopefully in a week or so I may be able to get this all working and powered with clean DC. Even though the PS Audio DACs use an internal master clock the quality of supplied input, especially if it has been isolated, clean powered and reclocked does matter.

 

Makes me also wonder what the result could be if the master clock (a crystek VXCO I believe) in the PS Audio was upgraded... hmm

You have to look at what the PS A DAC is going internally. My understanding is that it is reclocking all data so externally reclocking before it’s internal reclocking is redundant. The improvement you are hearing is likely from isolation. Externally, I would feed it with a clean source. Internally, you could look at updating the master clock. 

[vortecjr]

On 5/17/2018 at 7:08 AM, tapatrick said:

Just out - the Ambre from Metrum, looks like the first properly manufactured Network streamer with I2S outputs amongst others. Here is a first review...

https://metrumacoustics.com/hot-first-review-of-the-ambre-by-lexicom/?utm_source=Metrum+Acoustics&utm_campaign=49bc32cf91-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_05_17&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ae2619be61-49bc32cf91-56931529&goal=0_ae2619be61-49bc32cf91-56931529&mc_cid=49bc32cf91&mc_eid=bf329ec65a

No...not the first. 

[vortecjr]

On 5/17/2018 at 8:48 AM, Solstice380 said:

 

Being limited to 192/24 will limit the interest.  Most likely it is well suited to the Metrum DACs. 

With 24/192 it could stream DSD64 via DoP, but not sure any DAC would support it that way. Support for native DSD is unlikely on a Raspberry Pi.

[vortecjr]

6 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Why not. Depends on the tweaker.. question is whether its worth it.

Can be done with and Audio-gd HDMI LVDS module or one of these...http://yanasoft.jp/yana/hdmi_i2s.html

 

You would need a proper LVDS i2s send board which requires a power supply, but it can be done. I would pass on the trouble and use USB. FYI I recall a post from Ted S. where he stated, that using CMOS level i2s might work into his DAC without first conversion to LVDS i2s. I would ask him before attempting it. 

[vortecjr]

55 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I have tried all the inputs including USB and found I2S through a Wavio board with HDMI LVDS module (with clean power all round) gave the best sound to me, so I'm trying to find the best I2S source...

That’s what I meant...I consider that the source. 

[vortecjr]

The would multiplex DSD and PCM and use the same pins. So you would stream DSD or i2s depending on the content.