Time To Dump Tidal? Bluesound / BlueOS Now Has Deezer HiFi

[Cebolla]

24 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Deezer originally launched its lossless service called Deezer Elite as an exclusive to Sonos. Now that the exclusive is over, we will start seeing more brands launch integrations. The service has also been renamed Deezer HiFi. 

 

As far as I know, the HiFi service only works with hardware integrations right now. More research to be done. 

The 'exclusive' Deezer Elite CD quality lossless FLAC service was also available to Squeezebox devices, via the ickstream LMS plugin's standard Deezer access, as long as you used the same login for your Sonos Deezer Elite subscription.

 

Edit:

The Deezer and Sonos 16-Bit / 44.1 kHz quality service 30 day free trial still appears to be available, but has be renamed to HiFi

https://www.deezer.com/us/offers/?referer=sonos

[Cebolla]

I can confirm that the Windows version of the Deezer Desktop App does not support gapless playback, regardless of the audio quality you've selected - including the HiFi 1411 kb/s setting.

So, the Windows Desktop app is not much use with the HiFi account, especially if you consider its lack of ability to directly select the Windows audio output device in exclusive mode.

 

[Cebolla]

On 11/20/2017 at 9:16 PM, Cebolla said:

The 'exclusive' Deezer Elite CD quality lossless FLAC service was also available to Squeezebox devices, via the ickstream LMS plugin's standard Deezer access, as long as you used the same login for your Sonos Deezer Elite subscription.

 

Edit:

The Deezer and Sonos 16-Bit / 44.1 kHz quality service 30 day free trial still appears to be available, but has be renamed to HiFi

https://www.deezer.com/us/offers/?referer=sonos

 

At least this is still working - so direct streaming of Deezer HiFi lossless FLAC tracks and gapless playback for Squeezebox type streamers and also potentially for UPnP/DLNA renderers (via the UPnPBridge LMS plugin), ie, including UPnP supporting software players such as JRiver!

 

Google Cast devices should also be able to stream the Deezer HiFi FLAC tracks, via the CastBridge LMS plugin, though of course gapless won't be supported as no Chromecast device currently supports gapless playback when streaming contiguous audio files.

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Could be overlooked or could be skipped because it's harder to implement than just having gaps. 

 

10 minutes ago, psjug said:

Since Abbey Road was mentioned, I checked this on Deezer Hifi playing with Sonos and Bluesound.  On both Sonos and Bluesound Deezer plays FLAC gapless just fine (Polythene Pam -> She Came in Through The Bathroom Window is seamless).

 

Premium is a different story.  Pretty typical for mp3 to play with gaps.  I doubt they will make Deezer Premium gapless.  Is Tidal Premium gapless?

 

The issue is definitely with Deezer's own client/player applications, rather than their online servers supplying the lossless audio files for streaming over the internet. As I pointed out in my previous post, Squeezebox players are able to play gaplessly with the same Deezer HiFi lossless audio file streams.

[Cebolla]

11 hours ago, Miska said:

Does the Deezer Android/iOS app send lossless FLAC to Chromecast Audio?

 

If it does, then I can easily listen it through HQPlayer without extra computer...

 

P.S. Yeah, BlueSound NODE2 works as a source too, but Chromecast Audio is so much cheaper...

 

Assuming you have a Deezer HiFi account, how about using the Logitech Media Server on an appropriate Linux box to provide access to the Deezer HiFi lossless FLAC streams (requires the ickStream LMS plugin)?

 

You'll also need to use the UPnPBridge LMS plugin to proxy the Deezer FLAC streams for hqplayerd's Rigel UPnP renderer. UPnPBridge allows UPnP renderers to be used as a Squeezebox type streamer (specifically, Squeezlite), so control will need to be via a Squeezbox controller, such as the web browser app that comes bundled with LMS.

 

[Cebolla]

9 hours ago, Rexp said:

Deezer wipes the floor with Tidal SQwise, its easy to do a quick a/b with both apps loaded with the same track on an ipad. Maybe the way Deezer uploads files to it's servers, not being gapless and the better SQ are connected?

 

No. Gapless has nothing to do with Deezer's online servers, they can supply the files to 3rd party client apps that support gapless with absolutely no impact on sound quality. It is Deezer's own client desktop app that is at fault, period.

 

BTW, I have been successfully using my UPnP/DLNA devices to stream Deezer HiFi's FLAC tracks gaplessly for over a week, via the Logitech Media Server method I mentioned earlier. The connection didn't fail once and excellent SQ - no different to streaming CD res FLAC files over the home network.

[Cebolla]

That link is to a track ('W*O*L*D*') - I expect you meant the album the track is from:

Deezer: Greatest Stories Live - Harry Chapin

 

I'm not familiar with the album, but it certainly played gaplessly via LMS with the ickStream & UPnPBridge plugins. So, presumably the album sounds like it's supposed to in the original double LP and/or CD - some tracks truely segue into their next track, the rest with a fade.

[Cebolla]

Any networked device that can install & run LMS - eg, Windows, Mac & Linux computers (including a Raspberry Pi), some NASs, etc.

LMS also comes with a useable web browser controller app.

 

I'm using gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA streamers for playback, is that your intention too?

 

[Cebolla]

22 hours ago, shadowlight said:

 

Bit off topic.  How did you enter your Deezer credentials with Ickstream?  I seem to be missing that option?  I went to Ickstream website and under services added Deezer but I do not see the option to add username and password for Deezer.  Any idea?

Hi Deepak,

 

Not sure what happens when you explicitly go to ickStream's website and add the services there. You should try adding the service from within the ickStream app's settings in the LMS web app itself (or did actually mean you did this?), ie:

 

which should then take you to the ickStream Music Platform to select Deezer:

 

The first time you select the Deezer service to add,  it should take you to Deezer's own website to login.

 

It's possible that the ickStream platform (being still in beta) is a bit buggy in that remembers an old Deezer account if you added & removed one some time before. So next time you try adding the Deezer service, it tries the old login and automatically uses it without telling you if it succeeds!

 

John

[Cebolla]

3 hours ago, shadowlight said:

@Cebolla,  Thx John.  I do not even get the logon prompt when I click on Deezer icon that you displayed.  

 

I also tried adding the account based on the IckStream Cloud and clicking on service

 

 

If I click on the Spotify details link I see my account listed, while Deezer is showing up as empty.  Clicking on Tidal/Quboz gives me the option of entering the username and password used to login to the system.  I dropped an email message to IckStream contact email asking for help.  I think the setup for Deezer on Ickstream is currently not functioning correctly.

 

That's wierd. Yes, it should still work when you add the Deezer service from your ickStream Cloud account. So in both cases it should take you to the following Deezer login page, on what looks like Deezer's own server:

 

I've just tested deleting the Deezer service and then adding it again.

 

I did notice the first time I re-added the Deezer service, that like you it skipped the Deezer login page!

However, unlike you, my account was listed in the service details, so not blank. I then realised that the web browser I was using was itself somehow involved & connected to Deezer too -  obvious by accessing  https://www.deezer.com/us/ in a new tab on the web browser .

 

It seems that deleting Deezer's service from ickStream does not log it out from Deezer, as it is still connected via the web browser you are using. The only way to sever the connection is to manually logout from the Deezer website using the same web browser. Now, adding the Deezer service to ickstream takes you to the Deezer login page.

 

So the ickStream setup for Deezer appears to be still working, though rather buggy. It would certainly be worth you deleting the Deezer service from ickStream, seeing if the web browser itself is connected to Deezer, manually logging out from the Deezer website if so and then add the Deezer service to ickStream.

[Cebolla]

On 12/9/2017 at 10:13 PM, shadowlight said:

 

No luck with Deezer and Ickstream.  Either I get Tomcat error or the services is added without prompting for username/password.  Hopefully, I will hear back from the developer.

 

Ok I've tested this further on my Windows 10 machine & whether you are prompted for username/password or not depends on what web browser you are using, as they appear to interact differently with the cookies that are created both when you are taken to the Deezer login webpage and also when you then login successfully.

 

With the latest version of FireFox (57.0.2), deleting & reinstalling the Deezer service on ickStream never takes you to login to Deezer unless you either remove all cookies returned from a search for 'deezer' before you reinstall or you logout from Deezer at  https://www.deezer.com/us/ before you reinstall.

 

With the latest version of Chrome (63.0.3239.84), deleting & reinstalling the Deezer service on ickStream always takes you to login to Deezer, regardless of you removing the 'deezer' cookies or not.

[Cebolla]

8 hours ago, Melvin said:

 

I agree with you on the sound, but gapless is still lacking, at least from what I've heard myself. An example is this album:

 

 

The gap between tracks 3 & 4 is particularly noticeable. I've experienced the same with other recordings.

 

I've checked this on the Deezer HiFi via the ickStream Platform for Logitech Media Server, which serves as the audio file source for Squeezebox type players and there's no such issue. FLAC track 3 'Spring is Here' is 10:20 long, plays all the way through and FLAC track 4 ''Body and Soul' is gaplessly played next.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, psjug said:

I checked this and indeed there was a problem.  It did not seem to be a gap though, more like the end of track 3 was cut off.  Also, the BluOS controller was showing 0 time remaining about half way through the track but then continued to play past 8 minutes.  And on Sonos the track was cut off at about 5 1/2 minutes. So I think it is some other issue with the track/album besides gapless. 

 

May be it's a Bluesound & Sonos issue, as the Squeezebox type devices have no problem that FLAC track/album from Deezer HiFi. 

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, MarkS said:

 

I wonder about this "bits are bits" argument in a different form because a local file played from my nas sounds better than "the same" file (same song from same cd) streamed from Tidal, and that makes no sense to my brain (bits are bits) but exists in my ears.

 

Here's a couple of questions, either one might clear up the mystery for you (they have for me):

Could your brain be mistaken in thinking that it's the same song from the exact same CD?

Could your brain be mistaken in thinking that TIDAL couldn't be possibly be altering the original bits (either by accident or on purpose)?

[Cebolla]

13 hours ago, psjug said:

The ickStream platform must be more robust in dealing with whatever corruption the file has.  The Deezer beta Windows app also seems to have a problem with it.  It shows track length as a little over 6 min.  However, it plays for over 10 min and almost makes it to the end but not quite... cut off at about 10:05. 

 

I've fired up the current beta version of the Deezer Windows Desktop app (0.2.46) and it has no problems with the HiFi lossless FLAC version of the track (apart from the expected lack of gapless) and it is also showing the correct length of 10:20!

 

Are you sure you've set the Desktop app's audio setting to HiFi 1411kb/s, so that you are actually playing FLAC tracks?

 

I think the early cut off you mentioned at about 10:05, is a huge clue as to why you may be having problems with the Bluesound & Sonos devices. When the track is playing normally just before the end, at around the 10:07 mark, the musicians suddenly pause for dramatic effect for less than a second before playing the last few seconds of the piece. This sudden very large drop in volume is probably triggering a false crossfade point in those devices, if they are using a crossfader to implement gapless.

 

Incidentally, crossfading with end of track detection is not necessary to implement gapless for lossless file formats, such as FLAC. There is naturally no artificial gap when you splice together the audio contained in an album's sequential FLAC file tracks.

[Cebolla]

Yes, a regional variation in the file tracks could be a possible explanation, as I'm in the UK. Unfortunately I don't have a Bluesound nor a Sonos device to test if they too are ok streaming that Deezer HiFi track from the UK or not - may be someone who does can confirm this.

 

Could it be that they are only supplying MP3 tracks for that album when streaming from the US?

[Cebolla]

On 1/3/2018 at 2:51 PM, psjug said:

This is interesting - Deezer seems to be quietly streaming some 24-bit tracks (it looks to be ordinary 44/24 with FLAC compression).  See the posts by ymjonline on the Deezer Community forum, link below.  The BluOS controller format icon is "HR" for the 24-bit tracks instead of the normal "HIFI".

https://en.deezercommunity.com/what-are-you-listening-to-17/finding-mqa-titles-184/index1.html#post11936

 

I can varify that all of the tracks on Impact's Scriptura album are currently 24-bit FLAC, not just the track mentioned in one of the posts - tested using LMS via the ickStream platform.

[Cebolla]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:18 PM, psjug said:

Yes, the whole album is showing "HR" for me on bluesound too.  I haven't been able to find any of these on my own, though, and I've been streaming a lot of music on Deezer.  So I don't think there are many of these. @Cebolla - have you looked for more HR tracks, found any?

 

No, no idea how to.

[Cebolla]

11 hours ago, Rexp said:

Agree, Deezer does sound rolled off in comparison but overall I still prefer it. Btw I much prefer the sound using the Deezer app on an ios device via chromecast.

 

Wow, so you prefer non-HiFi Deezer on iOS (via Chromecast) to HiFi Deezer on a desktop?

[Cebolla]

12 hours ago, wushuliu said:

I just compared Deezer HiFi desktop to Tidal and they most definitely do NOT sound the same. VERY different presentations to me, and unfortunately the Deezer is not as good to my ears. Yes I made sure it was on 16/44. I compared several albums back and forth and the Deezer sounds slightly muted or rolled off like it has a dip in mids somewhere. This would sound smooth and pleasing on speakers with excess or poor quality treble/upper mids. Sins of omission, etc. But low level details and depth is absent. Maybe this is an issue with the desktop version.

 

I went through listening comparisons of the top streamers some years ago and they most definitely varied in presentation, with Spotify being the absolute worst. MOG though, was the best... too bad they went under.

 

The Windows version of the Deezer HiFi/beta desktop app doesn't allow you to set the audio output device and in particular to one in exclusive mode, unlike the Windows TIDAL desktop app. So the Windows Deezer desktop app forces you to use the default Windows audio device with its preconfigured audio settings (meaning you have to make sure that too is set to 16/44.1kHz to avoid resampling by the Windows audio mixer) and can unfortunately be shared by any sound producing application (including Window's system sounds) - not really ideal for 'hifi'.