MQA Blind Test Summary & Summary Comments...

[witchdoctor]

I think the takeaway for me was the concerns about the SQ of MQA are being overblown by the haters. At the end of the day MQA has the same SQ as hirez PCM... today. With the labels devoting their considrable resources to MQA it will likely be the goto format for hirez in the future. I don't see the labels chucking the format and suddenly start streaming in 96/24 PCM. As more new music gets mastered in MQA the SQ will only improve.

[witchdoctor]

Firedog you seem unable to accept the fact that ALL of the major labels are converting their catalogs to MQA and will be mastering in MQA going forward. There are plenty of boutique labels that will continue to offer PCM and DSD for now. Good luck with that that. You can store the files next to your VCR and cassette players.

[witchdoctor]

40 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

 

As Firedog wrote, the ONLY reason for the labels to move to MQA is for the DRM.

 

"You can store the files next to your VCR and cassette players."

lol - you know how these files work, right?

Stop being in denial and I would advise you to build up your vinyl collection. You'll be happier in the long run.
I'm happier listening to 7000+ MQA albums currently on Tidal with more being dropped every week for an extra $10 a month.

[witchdoctor]

Hey GUTB, please publish your own test results so we can all benefit, thanks.

[witchdoctor]

2 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Do you have an MQA DAC? Go listen to some MQA and non-MQA versions of the same track through Tidal. Why do you need validation through a highly manipulated blind test?

I did my own blind test, I validated it myself and use the bluesound node. Where are your test results?

[witchdoctor]

5 minutes ago, firedog said:

They have said they are doing it. Do you realize how many albums are out there to convert? And are all new albums being done in MQA? I don't think so.

What you don't seem to get is that all of those so called commitments are dependent on income streams being generated by MQA. If in a year or two those big income streams don't seem to be appearing, they will cut their losses and dump it.

You still haven't told us how MQA is going to make money for the labels. What's the realistic path to revenue generation that you see?

The path to revenue is for the mass market being willing to pay a premium for hi rez streaming. They sure pay a premium for UHD bluerays and 4K TV's, lets see what happens in 2018 with audio but I agree that they need to wait and see at this point.

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

This is a rigged test.  Think about it, what are you comparing here?

 

to fairly compare MQA vs non-MQA first you need the same master at 24/192, are you getting that from Tidal?  Secondly you need to compare the real hi res file played back on the best DAC of your choice (as we are comparing digital filters here, and some are way better than others) or using a playback software like HQPlayer, or Audirvana which allows one to "create" digital filters similar to MQA (apodizing and minimum phase), vs the MQA DAC.

 

To really understand MQA, and what it is doing it is necessary to have a bit of an understanding of digital filtering, both on the A-D and D-A sides.  If one is interested in learning about digital filtering, i suggest starting here:

 

There is no "magic" in MQA which cannot be reproduced by good digital filters.  Do not be fooled by the "marketing speak" and terms like "time blur", etc.  None of this is new, and it all has been well understood for years.

 

Good luck with your digital filters in cars, your phone, your desktop etc. If it was that easy everyone would do it. MQA=one hirez format that will play everywhere in legacy systems or MQA enabled.

[witchdoctor]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

Why have these digital filtering techniques been widely considered to be a fad and a gimmick? Because you can't get consistent good results out of them; there are trade-offs. That's why it's common knowledge that there's no replacement for bandwidth. MQA seeks to deal with this issue by managing time-domain errors end-to-end, from specific ADC to specific DAC to achieve the best results possible. MQA targets an extremely low level of time-domain error.

 

We may not care about the bandwidth so much -- but the streaming services certainly do. Let's face facts, straight up: no one is going to stream hi-rez audio on a commercial basis. If MQA does literally nothing else but get studios to release hi-rez tracks for streaming, it's already worth it.

 

From a subjective listening standpoint, I listened to several MQA products, including the Explorer 2, DFR and Node 2 -- it was only after listening to the Red after it's MQA update and with certain tracks was I shocked by how much better the MQA version was. Just software unfolding didn't make much a difference; it was only after experiencing "real" MQA with tracks that seemed to truly benefit from the process was I able to admit to myself that MQA is real and is worth pursing a central feature of my setup.

I love the Node, simple, inexpexpenive, flexible, great mqa, and I like the BluOS.

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

And this is really a shame.  Streaming services are killing music, plain and simple, just a terrible course of events.  Hopefully, somehow, someone, somewhere will pull us back from the brink, and figure out how to make sure musicians are properly compensated again, otherwise, humanity is doomed, as the benevolent force which is music will absent itself from our lives, mostly...

No, what is killing music is pirating. Didn't you know that?

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, wushuliu said:

MQA will go over just like DSD: .00001% will buy the kool-aid as a must-have without reading the fine print. The labels and god knows who else will be able to track these people with the DRM, learn their habits and upsell them on who knows what, or do who knows what with their info - which is fine as it'll likely be a demographic willing to open their wallets for the newest and latest anyway.

 

Meanwhile everyone else will stick with Mp3 for <$10.

DSD has been available and has not gotten traction. MQA was basically made available on Tidal 10 months ago, let's see what happens at the next CES. 

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

DSD is two things.

1) a data format both SACD ISO and DSF as well as DFF files,  as well as the proprietary SACD format

2) SDM which is the native format of 99% of DAC chips. Streaming DSD, converted from PCM has traction.

 

SACD as a physical format has not gotten traction. MQA, being closed like SACD, is another SACD. Like PCM, DACs will convert MQA streams to SDM and it  is highly unlikely to get traction as a native DAC format.

Please post a link to where I can stream DSD, thanks

[witchdoctor]

Thanks, I meant a streaming service like Tidal or Napster. That www.signalyst.com looks like software.

[witchdoctor]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

I suspect that what jabbr is suggesting is using software to convert a (cloud streamed) PCM signal to DSD, and then send it on to the DAC.  Because so many DACs these days are doing their final conversion at DSD (and higher) rates using SDM converters, this approach the DAC to do less, and often sounds better than just using the original PCM.  Of course Jussi's excellent filter algos also have something to do with this...

 

That is way too complicated for a witchdoctor but if it floats your boat go for it.

[witchdoctor]

2 hours ago, 4est said:

Enjoy your mystery meat then! Seriously though, you are pushing for a bunch of channels(immersion) while people such as myself are working at getting the most out of two channels. I use Tidal daily playing it upconverted to DSD512. It beats the shit out of MQA IME.

Pushing? The only thing I pushed to run 14.1 channels was the button on my remote to run Audyssey.

Like you said you are WORKING (bah, humbug) to get the most out of two channels. The witchdoctor hates working, but don't let that stop you.

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, Audinator said:

https://primeseat.net/en/

Pefect! I look forward to checking it out, thank you.

[witchdoctor]

23 minutes ago, 4est said:

Was that supposed to be funny? I click Roon, then click HQPlayer. Pick a selection and press play. Too much work?

No not at all, I saw that you said  "while people such as myself are working at getting the most out of two channels"

I just referred to what you said. hey, I have a dedicated two channel system on my desktop using Parasound and JBL. I know what you mean. To get a better soundstage you need a better amp, preamp, isolation, cables, AC, source, etc. It is work because two channel is what, 100 years old technology? 
Immersive audio is rightnow and the future. There is no way two speakers can immerse you the way auro 3d or ambeo can. You have 3 entire layers of sound enveloping you in a bubble. Anyone who hasn't tried immersive audio in their own space can't compare. Once you set it up you have very little desire to "work" you just "play"