Schiit EITR

[Abtr]

17 hours ago, davide256 said:

I sold the Gumby because I preferred the Mojo... less digital artifacts and more bass below 40hz. Gumby in my setup reminded me a lot of an EL34 tube amplifier, romantic mid range with roll off at frequency extremes

 

Regarding your preference for the USB input vs. the coax input of Chord Mojo, designer Rob Watts states this:

 

"It's complicated and depends upon a number of factors - principally the amount of RF noise injected into the Mojo, and the amount of correlated noise that gets in. It will depend upon the source device as to which sounds best. My preference is optical, as this has the smoothest sound quality and best depth, as it does not suffer from both of the aforementioned problems."
(see: https://www.the-ear.net/how-to/rob-watts-chord-mojo-tech )

 

So Rob Watts prefers optical! My experience with my RME ADI-2 DAC is similar. (Unlike you,) I much prefer Eitr's coax output over the USB receiver of the ADI-2 (with or without 5V injection), but connecting Eitr via a coax-to-toslink converter to the ADI-2 DAC sounds even better. Best description may be that every aspect or quality of the music/sound improves..       

[Abtr]

12 minutes ago, Charente said:

...

@Abtr ... which coax/toslink converter are you using ?

Delock DLCK-62790

 

Available (e.g.) here:

https://www.onlinekabelshop.nl/delock-coaxiaal-s-p-dif-naar-toslink-optisch-converter-usb-gevoed

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Charente said:

Thanks ... and from the NL ... even better !  At that price it's worth a shot.

 

I note from your system desc, you power this with an LPS-1 as well. I think that's probably key. I may initially try it with a Audiophonics LPS25 which I already have, to see if it makes sense for me.

 

I'm looking forward to your experience. By the way, the Delock has a 3.5mm x 1.35mm barrel connector for DC input, so you may need something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32902981396.html, to connect a LPS.

 

[Abtr]

9 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... thank-you. Appreciate your attention to detail. As I mentioned, I will initially use the Audiophonics LPS25, which has USB-A ports and see where I go afterwards. I accept that the LPS25 won't be a patch on the LPS-1. Also need an optical cable ... haven't used Toslink in ages !

 

I currently use two 5V Zerozone LPSs for Eitr and the Delock (my LPS-1 died). Sounds great!  I'm very interested in your results with the LPSU25. It looks like a nice 5V LPS. IME, the (linear) power supply quality of Eitr USB and the Delock makes a major difference in sound quality. I tried various SMPSs but even with additional ultra low noise voltage regulators and RF chokes, they sounded significantly less smooth/refined than a proper LPS (or LPS-1).. 

[Abtr]

20 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... The Delock is on its way to me. A fast turnaround. Those ZeroZone LPs's looked good in a review I recently read, although the 12v model. I'll post my thoughts when I get round to trying the Delock from the EITR and into my GMB Toslink. I also have a Metrum Acoustics Flint DAC, which has a Toslink input, so I'll give that a go as well. Time is my enemy at present ... nowhere near enough hours in a day !!

 

The Zerozone units are (probably) overkill (45VA toroidals with LT1083 voltage regulator) but very reasonably priced ($68 on ebay). I use the 9V model. The output voltage can be lowered to 5V with a trim-pot. Your LPSU25 looks more refined though.

[Abtr]

15 hours ago, john61ct said:

OK thanks. But I got the Eitr at a great price NOS, would like to keep looking for a solution for that if at all posible.

Well, it should be possible to bypass Eitr's internal power supply which delivers 5V DC. Connecting a 5V battery to ground and the 5V output pin of the regulator chip might work..

[Abtr]

4 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... I guess one could re-purpose the mains-in socket, connected internally, as you suggest ??

 

Yes, one could disconnects the 6V AC socket and reconnect it to the 5V DC output of the power supply. However, I checked and it appears there are two DC voltage rails of 5V and 3V, so one would have to connect a 5V, and a 3V battery to the corresponding outputs. Maybe @john61ct can send Schiit an email and ask if/how this can be done..

[Abtr]

2 hours ago, john61ct said:

...

I'm hoping someone can verify that just feeding 8.5Vdc (6V * 1.414) pos/neg to Neutral and Hot AC inputs will work that the (bridge?) rectifier will just pass it through.

 

Yeah, that could work. I'd say you give it a try. From a SQ point of view, I guess I'm personally more interested in bypassing the entire Eitr power supply and replacing it with a decent LPS and LT3045 based regulation. Perhaps I'll send Schiit an email about this myself.   

[Abtr]

2 hours ago, Charente said:

The D10 is a DAC rather than a DDC ??

It's a DAC and a DDC, with USB input only, RCA analogue output and Coax/Toslink digital outputs. 

[Abtr]

21 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... Ah, OK ! Quite versatile ... wonder how it sounds ?

 

With USB 5V injection It might be a good replacement of Eitr + the Delock coax to optical converter. I tried several DDCs but they didn't quite match the Eitr-Delock combo. Since, according to ASR forum, the Topping D10 has a low jitter and low distortion DAC output, it may also have a good low jitter Toslink output (24/192). Its succesor, the Topping D10S, measures even better..

[Abtr]

So I tried the Topping D10S as a DDC, with clean USB 5V injection. I'll have to listen to the Topping longer and then switch back to the Eitr-Delock combo, but my initial conclusion is that the Topping sounds better, and (again) Toslink out sounds significantly better than coax out (system: MacMini streaming from Tidal >> Topping D10S >> RME ADI-2 DAC/Pre). I think with the D10S my quest for good USB sound quality might be over.

[Abtr]

On 7/26/2020 at 10:32 PM, john61ct said:

already sent an email

...

Any word from Schiit yet?

[Abtr]

11 hours ago, Charente said:

Is the Topping D10S just powered via USB ?

Yes. I use a LPS for 5V injection. Galvanic isolation is per the optical Toslink output. 

[Abtr]

8 hours ago, john61ct said:

Yes.

 

As I expected they refuse to even acknowledge the possibility.

 

They also will not state that it would not work.

 

I'm not currently in a position to test.

 

But if someone else trusted by the community is, and thinks it 90% likely they could test it without burning

 

(running Eitr off DC voltage directly, whatever voltage, but lowest without compromising SQ would be best)

 

I'd be willing to pay for shipping both ways.

 

The Eitr uses a 6V AC adapter (actually 7.5V AC when I measured it). So, if you feed the Eitr with 6V DC I don't see how this could burn anything, unless you have the polarity inverted and there is an ELCO connected in parallel with the power input before the rectifier, which would be highly unusual. I have two Eitrs, so I might give it a try myself. If I blow one I'll still have another.

[Abtr]

8 hours ago, john61ct said:

 

Wow, good to know!

 

What is the purpose of the RME AI there, just as a headphone amp? Is it actually better?

 

If using a speaker / power amp, would you go direct from the D10S output?

 

I use the Topping as a DDC in order to isolate the USB interface from the DAC, just like the use-case for Eitr. I use the RME ADI-2 as a DAC/Pre, feeding a Schiit Vidar power amp directly. The Topping has no volume control, so to compare it to the RME would require an additional preamp or software volume control. There also would be no way to galvanically isolate the USB interface from the Topping DAC because it has USB input only. So I do not expect that the Topping on its own will sound even close to the Topping-RME combo, but I may try it, just for the record..

[Abtr]

3 hours ago, Charente said:

...

So far, so good ... Need a bit more listening and then a compare against straight Eitr Coax to BNC input on the Gungnir MB.

 

I went back to Eitr + Delock and I can now definitely conclude that the Topping's Toslink out sounds better in my system.

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Charente said:

...

Personally, I think the benefit of this solution will probably depend on the paired DAC, but I can't be sure as I've only tried two. I would say that it has a positive result on the Gungnir MB and I shall continue using it there.

...

Of course it's possible that not every DAC benefits audibly from the extra isolation of the Delock. I assume you prefer the Gungnir MB over the Flint NOS DAC, so you get the best sound overall with the Gugnir + Eitr + Delock (?)

 

I've tried three DACs with Eitr + Delock (Schiit Modi MB, Musical Fidelity MX DAC, RME ADI-2 DAC) and with all three SQ notably improved from adding the Delock to the Eitr. Maybe some HF noise flies right through the transformer-based isolation of the Eitr, or the coaxial S/PDIF output stage generates its own noise, which is subsequently blocked by the Delock Coax to Toslink converter.

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Charente said:

 

So, to be clear, this is WITHOUT the Delock ?

Yes. I use the Toslink output of the Topping. So far I only tried it with the RME ADI-2 in my system where it gives a further SQ improvement over the Eitr-Delock combo.

[Abtr]

2 hours ago, Charente said:

 

How would you characterise the improvement ?

Cleaner bass, better dynamics, better detail and imaging and placement of instruments, and overall less fatiguing (if at all).

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

...

I wonder how the D10s compares to the HECATE/DeLock ? IIRC, @Abtr, you had tried a HECATE before. Perhaps you could do a comparison in your setup ?

Good idea. I'll try it this weekend.

[Abtr]

16 hours ago, Charente said:

...

In fact,  it has made a difference … the big difference is how smooth and articulate the sound is now … no glare whatsoever … Upper-Mids and treble are superb. Still the same weighty presentation, great bass, bags of detail and ambience/air. I've been listening to this for most of the day ...various albums. Not a blink of listener fatigue

 

Don't get me wrong, I’m not suggesting we all go out and buy pure silver cables … who knows how much this cable would cost today, I dread to think. But, I already had it and I’m glad I tried it.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

...

Did you also try this cable with Eitr?

[Abtr]

4 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr .. I thought you might ask 😀 ... EITR/DeLock is the more aggressive of the two by comparison ... not as smooth/refined as HECATE/DeLock, which results in a more relaxed listen to my ears/brain. 

 

Yes, in my setup and with my 'unknown-brand' coaxial cable (I know it's quite good though), I also prefer HECATE/Delock to EITR/Delock, exactly because, as you say, the HECATE sounds smoother and more refined. The Topping D10s doesn't even need a coax cable and when I first connected it yesterday, it was immediately clear that this was a further SQ improvement.

 

I think these are quite striking results. Underlying the audible differences in the digital Toslink output of the Delock must be the amount of (analog) electrical noise injected into the device through its digital coaxial input, as well as the construction of (or indeed the lack of) a coax cable (conducting material, shielding, etc). The ultimate effect at the Delock's Toslink output must be jitter that is either directly audible or does upset the connected DAC's optical input circuit (PLL) such that it generates its own brand of electrical noise which subsequently and audibly affects the analog output of the DAC. To me, the fact that all this is relatively easily audible is pretty remarkable..

[Abtr]

48 minutes ago, Abtr said:

...

when I first connected it yesterday, it was immediately clear that this was a further SQ improvement.

...

I can't edit my post.. What I wanted to state here is: when I connected HECATE/Delock yesterday, it was evident the Topping D10s was a further SQ improvement.

 

 

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

...

Would you say the D10s is warm or more neutral ? ... I do like the clear, steely treble on the Hecate/DeLock (cymbals, guitars, etc). The sound textures are quite arresting.

 

I'd say the D10S is neutral, certainly not on the warm side. It's closer to Hecate/DeLock than to EITR/Delock and more refined and smoother than both combos. 

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

I guess also that the clean power via USB will also make a difference. 

 

I do wonder whether the average person will be prepared to go to the expense such a cleaned-up front end feeding a DAC. If I tot up the cost of getting to where I am (Hecate/DeLock), it comes to something like €800, incl. power supplies. Not an insignificant sum but worthwhile to my mind.

Yes, clean USB power seems to be crucial. That given, the differences between the different DDC setups remain striking, especially the differences between different USB to Toslink conversions, because there is absolute electrical/galvanic isolation between DDC and DAC, so any audible difference results from different levels, or forms of optical jitter. It's surprising how audible this is since jitter in modern digital audio equipment is not generally viewed as a big concern..

 

Topping D10s (€100), and Zerozone LPS (€100) makes a total of ~€200 . I think the SQ is certainly worth it.