Schiit EITR

[Abtr]

I tried a Schiit Eitr and in my system (note that I use balanced AC mains power) a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC plus Intona USB isolator sound better than the Schiit Eitr (with or without Intona) feeding the Modi Multibit. Possible explanations are: no Eitr means one leaky power supply less and/or the coaxial input of the Modi Multibit is suboptimal..

[Abtr]

13 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

With my nearfield setup with a balanced power setup using a Topaz isolation transformer, I found that my Mimby sounds just as good with the Eitr as it it did with the ISO Regen/LPS-1 combination. Both sound quite a bit better than plain USB.

Did you use the original Meanwell SMPS for the LPS-1?

[Abtr]

7 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr IIRC ... UpTone have stated that the type of energiser for the LPS-1 makes no difference (technically) ... atho' some say there is a difference. I use an iFi iPower as I already had one.

 

Hi Charente,

 

The various power supplies that can be used with the Uptone LPS-1 will differ in the amount of common mode AC mains noise they produce, which is audible as a relatively 'veiled' or 'dull' sound. Balanced mains power is said to audibly reduce such common mode noise by about 20dB. Nevertheless, IME it's always better *not* to add another mains powered component to the audio chain.

 

The largest single improvement of my system was the introduction of a balanced mains power iso transformer a few months ago. It isolates the audio system from regular noisy mains power and it 'rejects' common mode noise generated by the connected audio power supplies. The difference is huge. I have been listening to noise all the time!

Anyway, since the balanced power, every powered audio component I remove from the (USB) audio chain brings a further improvement. The fact that in my system the Modi Multibit sounds better with the USB-powered Intona than with the mains powered Eitr is consistent with that. I also tried the Uptone Audio iso Regen + LPS-1, powered by the 7V Meanwell SMPS and a 9V Ifi iPower. Both combinations significantly degrade SQ in my system.

 

The explanation is that before balanced power, the above mentioned devices solved  some common mode noise problems and introduced some of their own. After balanced power, common mode noise is minimized such that all these devices do is produce noise by their power supplies..  

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

... Am I thinking along the right lines ? 

 

Yes, I think you get it!  

[Abtr]

18 minutes ago, Charente said:

Looking at what's available in Europe ... something like this ?

 

https://airlinktransformers.com/category/standard-balanced-power-supply

 

Yes, that basically looks excellent. I know Airlink has special audio-grade (low capacitance) isolation transformers, not sure if this is one of them..

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

How would that be implemented in practice?

 

Well, basically you plug the transformer in a 230V wall socket and connect all your audio gear to its output terminal(s). It's best to use a single simple power strip for lowest impedance. Don't use a power conditioner after (or before) the transformer. Such filters tend to increase impedance which increases noise from AC leakage currents. Note that I didn't connect my computer to the iso transformer output. It's unnecessary and computers are very noisy devices that you best keep separated from your dedicated balanced audio power, and in my case it would defeat the galvanic USB isolation by the Intona.

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, George Hincapie said:

That's interesting. It sounds really similar then to this one I was thinking about: https://www.nvahifi.co.uk/balanced-mains-unit/

That one looks OK. I can't find the wattage though. I would recommend at least ~1000VA output power.

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

Yes, This looks like it could be an effective solution. Would I still plug in the iFi iPower (for the LPS-1) and the EITR WallWart into the same strip ? 

 

I've been looking up some possible transformers ... some of the high quality Audio optimised units are eye-wateringly expensive (e.g. Russ Andrews) !!

 

Well, you can experiment with the iPower and Eitr wallwarts. IME balanced power will always improve SQ, but I ended up with removing the USB decrappifiers from the chain altogether. They are not needed anymore, except for the Intona.

 

Equitech also makes some very expensive (120V) balanced power units. According to them: "The precision degree to which these transformers are balanced provides for the least amount of reactive phase shift possible which results in potentially a much broader bandwidth of common mode noise attenuation." (http://www.equitech.com/productsold/isolation-transformers/) Maybe it's worth the extra money, I wouldn't know..

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Lebouwsky said:

Do you mean you plug your strip in one outlet en plug all the audio devices in that strip?

 

Yes, that would be the  best (lowest impedance) configuration. This is explained by John Swenson in this thread:

 

1 hour ago, Lebouwsky said:

Does the transformer humm?

 

My transformer doesn't hum. Larger transformers are more prone to hum. If a transformer hums, there usually is a DC-offset problem in the AC mains power feeding it which leads to saturation of the transformer core. You can use a simple DC-blocker to mitigate this.
 

1 hour ago, Lebouwsky said:

How do you calculate your VA?

 

Well, I think the amount of power that you need is the amount that you realistically will use to reproduce sound in your listening space.  In my case that would be at most a 500 Watt(VA) peak. Double that and you have your transformer VA.

[Abtr]

On ‎2‎-‎9‎-‎2017 at 2:04 AM, Andyman said:

Charante, I think you've missed what I'm getting at. You're already using USB - it's what comes out of the mR and goes into the Eitr (then spdif comes out the other side). If you had a Gen5 in your Gumby, guess what; you'd use the exact same USB cable to it, then spdif comes out the other side. It just happens already to be within your dac's casing! (Imagine Schiit made your Gumby's case bigger, so the Eitr could fit inside and you plugged your USB cable through a hole they'd made.) Okay you can choose whatever coax cable you want rather than what Schiit use internally, but other than that, it's exactly the same. It isn't that one's USB and the other's spdif. They're both both!

Off to bed now - see you tomorrow.

 

Actually connecting the EITR through (coaxial) S/PDIF to the DAC is quite different from feeding it USB directly. With S/PDIF input, a phase locked loop (PLL) is used to synchronize the DAC with the external clock that is embedded in the S/PDIF signal. Direct USB uses the DAC 's clock for timing samples from a FIFO buffer directly to the DAC. So there's no PLL circuit in the chain. Whether this difference is audible will depend on the quality of the S/PDIF source (EITR), the quality of the PLL circuit and possibly the quality of the used coax cable. Also, the use of the EITR introduces another noisy power supply in the system which IME is audible.. 

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr Thank-you for the clarification ... always willing to learn. BTW, I've ordered a Balanced PS, per an earlier conversation we had, and will experiment with various connectivity alternatives to see what differences my ears can detect.

 

Hi Charente. I've ordered an Airlink BPS1502 myself, first to compare it with the Amplimo IT that I'm currently using and maybe to experiment with separate ITs for different audio components. I'm very interested in your experience with the Airlink.  

[Abtr]

3 hours ago, Charente said:

The Balanced Power Supply from AirLink Transformers has arrived ... it is a VERY heavy thing indeed !  ... and not very pretty but it will be sitting out of the way and out of sight. I'll connect it all up and see what this can do to cancel out power spuriae that I'm getting. It should also give some sonic benefits as well.

 

Airlink sent me the wrong unit! So they offered a collect and replace somewhere next week. Very interested in your experience with the BPS1502.

[Abtr]

16 minutes ago, Charente said:

@Abtr Oh, that's a pity ... I have to admit my AirLink unit looks different from the photo on their website, but the label indicates it's the correct model. I'll check with AirLink.  

 

I've had an initial listen (hard to resist really) and I can tell I'm going to need some time with this ... my immediate view is that it sounds 'different' ... best way I can put at at the moment ... I need to get my head around what I'm really hearing. Nothing bad, just not what I was expecting.

 

I received an Airlink unit that was built into one of their industrial casings instead of in the flat case shown on their website. Airlink confirmed that it was the wrong unit and offered to replace it. The label on mine also indicates the correct model: BPS 1502 EU..

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

@Abtr AirLink Transformers have confirmed I also have the wrong Balanced Power Supply ... Mike Novak has been very helpful and a courier will deliver a new unit and pick up the old one, as soon as they have manufactured the correct product. I guess we both have to wait a while. The 'wrong' unit did sound promising tho' !

 

EDIT: He did mention to me that the two sockets out are NOT independent ... this is a feature of their more expensive units. If it had been independent, I did think about plugging in the SMPS's in that.

 

Good to hear you'll get a replacement.  Maybe it's just the BPS1502 unit in another casing and maybe it isn't. Airlink said it is the 'wrong' unit..

 

And 'independent' outlets are filtered. AC filters tend to increase AC impedance which may not be a good thing. It may be better to *not* plug a particularly noisy power supply into the isolation transformer together with sensitive analogue audio equipment..

[Abtr]

On ‎11‎-‎9‎-‎2017 at 11:36 AM, Charente said:

This (rather lengthy) impression about a Balanced Power Supply (BPS) may seem to be off topic but I took the view that it's still on course for deciding whether 'anything' in front of the EITR makes no difference to the sound quality. Mains power, IMO, is in that category and thus this impression tests that assertion... and I used an OP's discretion.

 

I decided to buy a BPS following an earlier comment by @Abtr and some subsequent research. My main reason was to address mains spuriae that I get through the system, which manifest themselves as occasional clicks on the Gungnir relay (since I've had the EITR) and momentary interruption of sound. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it's a little alarming. Mike Moffat's previous comments about this problem, which I posted earlier in the thread, are applicable. Any SQ benefits would of course be a welcome bonus.

 

The model I chose was from Airlink Transformers (in the UK) and is a standard EU 2 socket unit (BPS1502EU). Better specified units or even custom builds are possible from Airlink. I connected all my audio gear into one good quality power strip and had another power strip available connected to a socket outside the BPS, for reasons I shall explain later.

These impressions are based upon the first unit Airlink sent me, which it turns out to be the 'industrial' version of the product I had ordered. A replacement is under construction although I understand there is no significant technical difference between the two. I will verify the results on the replacement unit and report any differences if I hear them. So, these impressions are interim but I thought readers might like to read them.

 

My listening has been initially done using my preferred setup (see sig below), although I will carry out some alternative connections in the next few days to see what differences I can hear there, including swapping the SMPS's to the strip outside the BPS. That will take quite a bit more time to conclude ... not only that but this commentary is already long enough !

 

Now, at this point I hasten to add that I am no Electrical Engineer and my views are simply based on what I hear. To be honest, I was sceptical about hearing any SQ improvements.

 

The mains spuriae has certainly reduced ... I am hearing far fewer clicks and interruptions throughout my listening sessions, but unfortunately they are still there. Checking on the Airlink product description, it does say "Removes Power Line Noise" and also "Helps to reduce mains interference" ... so, reduce but not eliminate.

 

However, I was surprised to hear a difference in the sound. At first, the sound seemed 'boxed-in' and rather unattractive. However, after a day or so of settling in (24/7), this boxiness largely disappeared ... so, it does need some 'warm-up' time IMO.

 

I wasn't sure at first why the sound was different as I went through my usual listening process with new equipment.  I noted a conclusion at the time that the difference was similar to that experienced when I bought the UpTone LPS-1 for the microRendu. It's been often said that mains noise, as such, is inaudible to many ... one doesn't know it's there until it's gone. That is the case here. As @Abtr said in his original comment ... "I have been listening to noise all the time!"... [and wasn't aware of it].

 

The soundstage and detail is as I have described before when I first got the EITR. What the BPS helps to deliver is a 'cleanliness' around the instruments & voices ... they sound distinct and distinctive. On Bill Frisell's Small Town, Bill's 'hollow' guitar effect is well defined and his subtle 'bent notes' are more obvious. Thomas Morgan's double-bass sounds wonderfully natural and with good 'heft' even on my HD-650's. My other favourite album for listening to new gear is George Coleman's A Master Speaks ... the 'knarly' edge of Bob Cranshaw's double-bass is alarmingly explicit and a joy ... the edginess of the sax is absolutely spot on ... a sax can have very meaningful textures like no other instrument ... percussion is incisive and the various drums ring out their tones realistically ... the single top-hat cymbal is very clear. These were some of the notes I made. In general, the timbre of the instruments is wonderfully clear.

 

I listen to a lot of small venue live recordings and the ambience is now palpably alive. Even the clinking of glasses in the audience is quite 'arresting' ! Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley is 'aurally tangible' and a pure delight.... a relaxing lushness to the superb quality of her voice.

 

What is equally impressive is that I can turn down the volume and the sound remains equally clear ... just quieter. Every bit tid-bit of detail is there... which before I used to turn the volume up to hear.

 

To conclude ... A Balanced Power Supply does make an audible difference. I'll go so far as to say it should be a mandatory purchase before buying anything else ... mains isn't just mains. I certainly wish I had bought a BPS earlier in my audiophile career.

 

As an aside, I was using some newly acquired GE 5670W 5* tubes (with adapters) in the Mjolnir 2 and I must give a positive shout to these ... they are simply superb and not expensive. Best tubes for me to date.

 

Good review. You describe almost exactly my own experience with balanced mains power.

 

I received my replacement Airlink BPS1502EU, this time in the correct compact casing and without as much as a scratch on it. Nice. As far as I can measure, mains noise reduction is on par with my Amplimo and so is the sound. I do not notice any sound differences. I may do some A/B-ing..

 

BTW, I disconnected the secondary ground from mains Earth where it is bolted to the chassis, as shown at the bottom right in the picture below. This improves sound even further  in my system. Note that if you 'float' the secondary ground this way, you should install a 2 pole RCD at the secondary output for safety. Also, make sure mains phase is connected to the brown wire and neutral to the blue wire at the connector at the bottom left..

 

[Abtr]

58 minutes ago, Charente said:

@Abtr Thank-you ... good to know. I'm really not sure if I will/can venture in doing the modification you suggest, although it does sound like an enticing idea ! ... perhaps if you are in the neighbourhood ? However, it is interesting to note what the BPS looks like inside the case from your photo. What is your impression of the build quality ?

 

Well, It's really simple and quite safe to try. The RCD is just for a more permanent disconnection from mains safety ground..  I think the build quality of this BPS1502EU is very good..

[Abtr]

@Charente. Did you receive your replacement Airlink BPS1502? I installed a simple DC-blocker in mine (no soldering required).

 

 

It improves sound quality (in my system) even further. And I think the Airlink with DC-blocker sounds better than the Amplimo with DC-blocker. I'm testing a refurbished Sansui AU-D9 amplifier right now and it sounds quite amazing with the Airlink. 

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

@Abtr,  can you describe which DC-blocker is installed and how you installed it. I am interesting in the BPS solution and if it works great including DC-Blocker I may go for it.

In addition, are you using anything else on the USB chain? Does it help or is the Airlink briniging the most significant improvement?

 

 

Hi sbenyo.  It's a Rod Elliott DC-blocker: http://sound.whsites.net/articles/xfmr-dc.htm (figure 8 in the link). I used a 400V 25A bridge rectifier with a hole in the center (to bolt it to the chassis), plus two 10000μF 10V (low ESR) Panasonic FC series capacitors. The capacitors are connected to AC phase and to each other with screw connectors. Connections on the bridge rectifier are made with solid copper wire and spade plugs. The whole thing is quite rigid.

 

IME, if you connect your DAC, preamp and poweramp(s) to the Airlink and anything else to regular wall power (or another isolation transformer), then all that matters is galvanic isolation of the USB chain from the DAC. In my system, with balanced power, Intona and/or Iso Regen sound better over USB than Schiit Eitr over S/PDIF (with or without Intona or IR). With regular noisy single phase power it's a different story..

[Abtr]

18 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Funny, I found that an Eitr in my setup replaced the ISO Regen/LPS1/Singer F-1 combo with no loss of sound quality. That’s an over $800 solution replaced by a $179 solution. Of course I do have an isolation transformer with balanced power in place and no SMPS bricks plug into the power strip plugged into the transformer. 

 

The Singxer F-1 is a USB to S/PDIF converter. Did you try Iso Regen connected directly to a DAC's USB input?

[Abtr]

14 hours ago, Charente said:

@Speed Racer Thank-you ... for me the iFi iPower is definitely better off on its own in a separate outlet OUTSIDE of the BPS. The iPower seemed to be affecting the EITR power when it was sharing the same strip.

 

I can't find the link but there is a blog on the audiosciencereview forum showing that the original Meanwell SMPS of the LPS-1/Regen is (much) quieter than the Ifi iPower in terms of noise put back into AC mains. I use the Meanwell (outside the BPS) to power the LPS-1.

[Abtr]

20 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Yes. The ISO Regen/LPS-1/USPCB/Singxer F-1 combo going to the SPDIF RCA coax of Yggdrasil sounded better (cleaner and better soundstage) than the ISO Regen/LPS-1/USPCB combo to the USB port. 

 

Possibly the S/PDIF input of the Yggdrasil is better than the S/PDIF input of my Schiit Modi Multibit DAC and/or the USB input of the MM is better than the Yggdrasil's. I assume you know that there's a Gen 5 USB upgrade available from Schiit for the Yggdrasil. The Eitr proves that Gen 5 USB works. I suspect that it will beat Eitr + S/PDIF in your system..

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Yes, I read Mike's explanation about capacitance and inductances, sending pulses that can "cause a tic or a few millisecond interruption in the Eitr." ...

 

I can't find that on the Schiit website..

[Abtr]

On ‎26‎-‎9‎-‎2017 at 12:40 PM, Charente said:

... I listened to the Shai Maestro Trio (album of the same name). This is quite a dynamic recording ...

 

 

Thanks for the tip! His album: The Road to Ithaca (also on Tidal), sounds even a bit more 'open' to my ears.

[Abtr]

This Dutch band is also quite interesting: De Raad van Toezicht, album title: De Raad.

[Abtr]

59 minutes ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... thank-you, although I can't find it on Qobuz !  Where do you source it from ? ...

 

I source it from Tidal..