Naim DAC

[tresaino]

Greetings, am popping in from time to time, wish I had more time.. I was initially curious about the Naim but was put off in the end when I discovered there's no AEX/EBU digital input, nor are there XLR analog outputs. I use and like both, at least in my fully balanced setup. As they say in Italy, peccato..

 

[Bob Stern]

is provided on the DIN connector, isn't it?

 

[Quest]

Naim doesn't believe in balanced, I was told, so everything is RCA.

 

Anyway, have heard the DAC and it has the typical Naim house sound and punchiness.. so if you like it, it's an option. Sounded less colored than the cdp imo. Performance is congruent to its price-tag (meaning marginally better than dacs of benchmark price range but lower than the berkeley and relevant dacs).

 

Honestly, not many DACs in similar price range (i only know of the Esoteric D-07 and Wadia).. and of course weiss minerva (clearing stock).

 

[Audio_ELF]

Quest said... Naim doesn't believe in balanced, I was told, so everything is RCA

 

Naim actually believes that single ended via DIN is the best way to connect.

 

Eloise

 

[ferenc]

I am very happily using the Naim DAC with an XPS2 power supply in a generally balanced system. It is connected to one of the single ended inputs of a Parasound JC2 pre, then goes as balanced to the Parasound JC1 amps. Works wonderfully well. It is one of the very few really fine DACs I have ever used in my systems, and I used a lot, like dCS, Accuphase, Theta Generation V and VIII D/A converter and few pro mastering DACs like Mytek 8x192, DAD, Apogee, ProTools, etc.

 

The Naim, DAC, especially with an external power supply like my XPS2, is on the same level as those I mentioned, and in the right system it has a fluidity and overall "rightness" on all kind of music genres like very few other DACs. The source is Macbook/Hiface and Konnekt as FW to SPDIF converter, I like the HiFace much more.

 

[tresaino]

Just to clarify: am not suggesting the Naim sounds bad, and also acknowledge there are ways to work around the omissions. However simply didn't want to do that, that's all. Having ended up with the Dac2 from Weiss I'll have to work around the lack of a usb input, but we know this is not too difficult.

Regarding balanced versus RCA, we know that both can be very very good but it depends on the implementation. I have a tubed and fully balanced Jadis preamp with no rca connections whatsoever, a peculiar choice if you will but the sound is great. I remember Jadis strongly discouraged people from using xlr to rca adaptors with this model..

 

[Bob Stern]

Thanks, Eloise, for clarifying that Naim never use balanced analog connections.

 

This is confirmed by their "connections guide" which shows the pin diagram for their DIN connector:

http://www.naim-audio.com/download/connections_2003_09.pdf

 

(I had foolishly assumed that the reason they use a DIN connector is because they need all those pins for balanced connections. Silly me.)

 

My system has hum problems if I use unbalanced connections, so that rules out Naim for me. Too bad, because their DAC White Paper is impressive.

 

[ferenc]

If you have a hum problem, Naim DAC can be a good solution. In case of the Naim DAC, there is a switch on the back of the unit, using it you can float the ground or use the chassis for grounding.

 

Naim is very generally very careful with the grounding, one of the reasons why they use DIN as they can carry the star ground around the full system using all Naim equipment using one of the pins of the DIN connection. I think it is very clever.

 

[Bob Stern]

The DIN connector has only one ground pin, so they're not doing anything special such as providing different electrical connections for the signal ground and the grounded shield.

 

There's no difference between a ground pin in a DIN plug and the ground connection of an RCA plug.

 

[Gulinias]

I want to add that there is no one perfect dac for all. There is not one at every price and if the Naim does not meet your needs then it is not the dac for you, I do want to say that sonics are also individual but want to emphasize that I like the Ayre and think it a very nice. The Naim to my ears was more than a little better to what attributes I find important. This was in the same system. There is a point of diminishing returns in all the gear and I think that varies from system to system and person to person. If the Benchmark is 99 per cent of the Naim then I should by all means buy one and I did not it. It is nice though for what it is. I can think of the Wavelength Cosecant and the new Metric Halo as at or near the Naim price point. There are more and of course the Dac2 is in the area also. They are all I am sure nice but will appeal to different people with different systems. I have never heard the Weiss (I tried) or the Berkeley(cant afford it no point) but I am sure I would most likely enjoy both. I love Spectral gear so I think there is a chance I would love the Berkeley. I still doubt that you could name a true best dac for everyone even if price was no object. This goes for all audio gear in every category.

 

[ferenc]

Not the (grounding) plug only which makes a difference, but the whole concpet how a Naim system is designed and takes the ground in consideration. There is an explanation on Naim's web site:

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http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3452929996/m/5732982517

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"The obvious reason: DIN connections sound better than RCAs...

 

The phono plug, or RCA connector, as best as anyone can remember, was designed decades ago as a direct current (DC) power connector. Its design properties do not lend themselves to transferring music signals that have very low voltages (less Than 5 volts) of alternating current (AC). This is true - no matter how good the RCA plug is or whether it is made with gold, etc.

 

The first difficulty with the RCA connector is that it has a high-frequency capacitive impedance of around 200 ohms; unfortunately, the typical cable that connects the two RCA plugs together has an impedance of about 50 ohms. In this situation, the two RCA connectors on either end of the cable act as reflective walls at higher frequencies and bounce information back and forth, trapping the signal and extending the decay time of the signal that is trying to pass from one component to the other. These reflections have an effect on musical information and are especially harmful to low-level signals, particularly quiet harmonics and underlying instruments, where the ringing that is generated by the loudest instruments will smear the smallest signals. The result is that the quiet instruments will blur or fade away when the loud ones come along. The complexities of the music and the tones of individual instruments get lost.

 

The DIN plug has an impedance that is similar to the cable. It does not reflect like an RCA plug.

 

Furthermore, the system ground (which should be a stable connection point to which all signals and power supplies are referenced) is absolutely critical to the sonic performance of your hi-fi. A single reference ground point is important so that signal details are not lost in the small, yet significant voltage differences inevitable with separated ground paths.

 

Many manufacturers point to the great trouble they take to "star ground" everything. Sadly, this is all wasted when you connect your system together with RCA-plugged cables. Why?

 

When you connect, for instance, a CD player to a preamp with RCA-plugged cable, you automatically have two separate ground wires - the left and right shields going between them. This creates a ground loop, which degrades the musical performance dramatically, and negates any efforts that were taken to ground the internal circuits properly.

 

If you were to connect these same two components together with DIN-plugged Naim interconnects, you would have only ONE cable with only ONE ground shield surrounding both the left and right signal wires. Hence, only one ground path for each connection and no ground loop.

 

Hope this helps....

 

Richard Dane"