New audiophile looking for good starter system advice

[R1200CL]

You only mention SPDIF from the NUC to the Marantz but not HDMI. Why? Isn't that also a digital pathway to the Marantz and (theoretically) wouldn't it sound every bit the same as SPDIF to the Marantz? While SPDIF on a computer is much harder to find, pretty much every computer has HDMI nowadays. Is there something inferior about HDMI?

 

Like I said, I'm new to this and still don;t understand quite a bit so that's why I am asking.

 

I'm not sure, but what is keeping you from using that nice RJ45 interface on your Maranz ?

 

You probably don't need to purchase anything [emoji3]

Well if that Ethernet interface is not doing OSD, which I don't expect, a good iPad would serve you well. New models coming next week also.

 

Why not email Maranz and ask when or if they will support RAAT on that device of yours [emoji3]

 

In the meantime you should figure out how (if possible at all) to do DNLA with Roon.

 

EDIT:

I think it will show up as an airplay device.

Try and tell us [emoji16]

[R1200CL]

Have you tried this app:

Marantz Remote App av D&M Holdings https://appsto.re/no/IRMlx.i

 

 

Maybe also some help here:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2026153-official-marantz-2015-nr-1506-1606-sr-5010-6010-7010-av7702mkii-owner-s-thread.html#post34843721

 

I think RAAT is not something on Denon and Marantz roadmap.

[R1200CL]

In case you guys don't know :

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Multichannel

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[R1200CL]

25 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

is there a device that will run Roon (without the need for a PC) access my files from my NAS and output to my Marantz?

Yes, just purchase the MicroRendu. 

That is if your NAS is Qnap or Synology, as they can run Roon. Otherwise you need something to run Roon on. The SonicTransporter i5 is a very good choice. And can be purchased together with the MicroRendu  

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i5-microrendu-ifi-bundle

If you want to save money you could use a different endpoint than the MicroRendu. Even Rapsberry Pi. 

What NAS do you have ?

Do you have any computer available in your house ? If so, you can start using Roon on that one. 

If you can afford, the Aurlic Aries is an option, but as long as you like to use Roon, you still need somewhere to install Roon. However the Aries will by its Lightning DS app, only available on iDevices  I think, will probably fulfill your needs, if there is a absolutely requirement of no other computer. Then also you have to forget Roon. 

I personally would not go that route. 

[R1200CL]

10 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

My NAS is neither of those.  I use unRAID for my NAS.

Then you should consider the SonicTransporter i5 and MicroRendu bundle. Is it within you budget?

[R1200CL]

This is a long shot. 

https://lime-technology.com/virtualization-host/

if you have the skills, it should. It possible to install Roon via VM. 

But isn't this NAS of yours just a PC ? What does it consist of ?

How big is you music collection ? Is the "NAS " used for other things. ?

[R1200CL]

23 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

I thought about that but I'm not well versed in Linux.

I suppose you seen this:

https://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Manual_6#Lime_Technology_Tested_Components

If your HW is good Roon on Linux via Docker should be the cheapest way. 

Edit: That is if anyone has done via Docker before. So you probably need to find that out first. 

Quck Google:

https://hub.docker.com/r/mikedickey/roonserver/

and probably even better;

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-running-in-docker-on-unraid-6-x/10456

[R1200CL]

12 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

I was hoping to keep it under a grand.  Here's what I don;t understand - why the need for the Rendu?  The SonicTransporter i5 doesn't output audio?

You can skip the MicroRendu and run USB direct from the SonicTransporter i5 to your Marantz. This has been confirmed by Jesus as a possible option. 

How big is your collection?

[R1200CL]

22 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

My hardware was great when I built it 4-5 years ago:

Supermicro X9SCL server mobo

Intel Xeon E31230 CPU

32GB ECC RAM

 

But with that I am running about 5 Docker containers on it too.  I was fearful that if I could get it working on there that with some many things running  I wouldn't get high qaulity audio from it,

 

It seems to me you both have the HW and skills to do a Docker ?

You should really try. Xeon is powerful and you have plenty of RAM.

Take your time and install Roon on that server. I think you have better HW than most of us around here ? (At lest 4 years ago)  

12000 tracks is nothing. I bet is gets into a 500GB SSD. My 27500 is less than one TB. 

Not that I recommend, but all your music fits a USB interface with an SSD. 

I think a MicroRendu withe LPS-1 is what you need. Roon on you server. 

Later you probably can do some light HQPlayer on the same server. 

[R1200CL]

4 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

Would it be better somewhere else as far as playback quality?

No, leave that option for now ?

It will lead you in the wrong direction I think. Do the Docker first. 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-running-in-docker-on-unraid-6-x/10456

 

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, bozrdang said:

One other question I have is what does the microrendu do? I assume it is not a DAC so why would someone by it over a DAC as a first upgrade? If I installed it in between my server and my Marantz, what would be it's function? 

 

http://www.sonore.us/microRendu.html

 

As said, even a Rapsberry Pi will work as an endpoint. 

Or a laptop, just install Roon Brigde on it. 

 

If it make ant any sense to you, look at it as a CD transport. 

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, bozrdang said:

It seems to be working as far as I can tell.  My builder just finished the theater room and all my equipment is still upstairs. So I don't have any amps, speakers or preamp down by my server to actually play anything through it.  But I am able to connect via my phone and my music is all there.

 

Great to hear it worked. I suppose you keep your "noisy" server away from your Marantz etc. ?

No problems then, Roon scanned all your music quickly ?

 

Maybe you even try HQPlayer ?

 

 

[R1200CL]

1 minute ago, bozrdang said:

I was planning to have the server and the Marantz and amps all installed in my server rack. Not good? 

 

There may exist different opinions about this. But I think the general rule is to keep away your audio gear as much as you can of non audio or noisy equipment. And isn't that server quite noisy as well ? (In addition to the possibility to pollute your AC lines). And how about heat ? Or maybe not an issue ?

 

My personal opinion is as a general rule, is to try as much as possible to work on your power in order to achieve good sound. This is a huge topic. And many different views, and way to deal with. And the quality of your audio equipment also mattes.

 

If you can have one (or two) separate power line from your fuse cabinet, (sorry for bad English, but I guess you get the point), you may have reduced some AC pollution, or at least the possibility. Good cables of cause. I'm a fan of power conditioners, but not all does a proper job. John S has some opinions and have been writing about this.

 

Which make me wonder why no one as far as I know have started a proper review of power equipment (filters and conditioners) for audio. This is maybe the only thing that can be easily measured in a way, that ought to give a "correct" result. 

 

As an example I used this one myself http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bluehorizon/1.html

The thing is that it's produced by Isotek, and when I ask the sales manager Keith Martin the difference between the sound and the numbers shown, he could not answer, nor did he reply my email. Not a convincing thing. But I'm happy with my Isotek products

I think you just have to do what is feasible for you. 

 

[R1200CL]

So have you decided how to go from your NAS to your Maranz ?

 

Is HQPlayer an option, and have you found if docker is possible as well with HQPlayer ?

 

 

[R1200CL]

5 hours ago, bozrdang said:

 If I don;t have any problems getting the audio passthrough from the Docker container then I will probably buy a DAC and call it a day

 

Why ? You already have the Marantz with a DAC built in. 

 

Or or do you expect a good DAC shall feed analog in on your Marantz, or is your intention to bypass the Marantz? 

 

Also: (another thing)

If you have a Apple TV or a Squeezebox connected in your network, those should show up as audio devices. Just as a confirmation that things are ok. 

 

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, bozrdang said:

 If I have problems that way then I will either go with a NUC or something like the sonicTransporter.

 

Did you not already confirm that your iPhone is connected to your Roon core ? 

 

Do you have a laptop or any PC in your house? If any problem occurs , you should install Roon on those and do testing before you ever consider other HW for Roon. 

The PC will in any case serve as a controller, agree ?

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, bozrdang said:

I'm assuming that an external DAC would be better than the one on the Marantz and I would then pass analog audio to the Marantz which would then pass it on to my amp.

 

My assumption would be that you would need an extremely good analogue section in that Marantz, in order to get any benefits from a supposedly better DAC. 

 

If that DAC has it's own volume control (not digital one) you can easy test by bypassing the Marantz. 

 

Or if it has no volume control, you can test it directly to your amps anyway, by using Roon (or HQPlayer) volume control. And compare against the Marantz in the loop. 

 

So so you may purchase a DAC you can return. 

 

I could of cause be totally wrong ?

Hopefully some will disagree and tell you differently based on their experiences.

(I only do "bad" DAC to god DAC to test MQA). 

 

Most likely the ISO regen and/or the MicroRendu and similar will give you better SQ than an extra DAC. Maybe even the Jitterbug. But only you can tell. 

 

I'm not sure if your goal is to combine a home theater with a good stereo setup. I did struggle a long time before I achieved such a solution. 

 

It it would be interesting to hear how your project develops. 

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

12 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

I have a feeling that's where I will end up because I think I am going to have problems giving my Roon Docker container access to a USB port for an audio device.  If so and I end up adding a NUC or other compouter in the chain I might as well have it run Roon Core rather than my NAS.

 

Thats why you NOT add a NUC, but the MicroRendu ?

 

I'm not joking. If you struggle with USB from your Linux/Docker, you don't solve the issue with adding another computer. 

 

As I think I indicated, you test this by install Roon Brigde on your PC, and drag the USB cable  from that PC to the Marantz. You don't even need to connect a Ethernet cable to that PC. Wifi is OK.

Then you purchase an endpoint like the MicroRendu. 

 

I hope you understand. 

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, rn701 said:

I use a file server, tiny windows pc, jriver, hdmi and optical to avr. Also works with just hdmi but there are occasional handshaking issues when switching hdmi inputs.

 

Where is your Roon installed ? ( OP use Roon). 

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, bozrdang said:

The USB problem I am talking about would be strictly related to my NAS.  By default the Docker containers do not have access to all of the system's peripherals and/or unRAID's OS doesn't have drivers installed for many of them.  It can be done but this is where my skills are lacking.  I haven't tried it yet but from my reading I don't think the Roon Docker container I setup on my NAS will be able to access a USB port to send audio to my Marantz without a bunch of work.

 

If I end up using a NUC outputting straight to my Marantz then I would most likely use HDMI so I can also get the GUI on my screen.  Plus I can then get mutlichannel audio playback for my SACD's.  Would that be possible via USB?  What about a MicroRendu?  Can it output multi channel?

 

When reading your answer, I think we not fully understanding each other. 

 

I understood your usb issue. And again; you don't solve that by adding a NUC. 

 

Roon can work direct via usb, but it works best over network and with an endpoint. 

So you solve that by adding an endpoint. Period !!!!

 

And as I indicated you have a quite perfect Roon server in that NAS. 

And it may even be more perfect cause there are no USB.

 

Roon and USB are multi channel. Should work. Can double check and get a confirmation that MicroRendu will do fine. 

But so can you do by using your tiny PC ?

 

If HDMI is important, try an Apple TV. ? (As Roon endpoint). 

 

If you like to have Roon controller displayed on screen, then use some options like mirror a tablet, or HDMI from your minipc, but again as a controller. 

Controller NOT server. I hope you understand the difference. 

 

HMDI for picture. USB and MicroRendu for sound. 

Which means you need to find a clever way to display Roon, cause you can't take your Marantz, that already has selected the USB input as source. 

 

So unless your screen has several hmdi inputs, you will need a simple hmdi switch. 

 

Now of cause if you as a TEST add you PC as an endpoint, assuming it has HMDI, you can of cause then play via HMDI, and get both sound a picture simultaneously.

 

It you happy with that, make yourself a NUC AS ENDPOINT, but not as a server. 

 

You have one server and as many endpoints you like.

And those endpoints can be on other rooms, that's why the term zones. 

 

Or or you just use several different inputs into your Marantz from the same Roon server. 

You play the same song simultaneously on different endpoints and chech which one sounds best by just change the input on your Marantz. 

 

Did this nake name any sense to you, or did you already know all I said ?

 

Are you planning to use HQPlayer ?

And if yes, at what sample rate ?

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, bozrdang said:

Right now, in my main room of interest (the theater room), Roon is installed on my unRAID NAS but I have no audio equipment down there yet so Roon shows "no audio device available" or something like that.

 

The question was not for you ?

[R1200CL]

43 minutes ago, bozrdang said:

I just installed Roon Bridge on my upstairs PC and after a little bit of trial and error, I am playing audio on it via Roon Core running on my NAS.  Very Cool!

 

Indeed. You're very creative. I would never thought about that option. (Almost) Thanks for letting me understand my explanation helped. 

I've been where you been, and Roon Brigde I only understood less than a month ago myself. Basically because I thought I did not need it, which is correct, but for me to have a bit fun with MQA and an Explorer2, Roon Brigde was the perfect way to go. 

When you understand how different Roon works compared to anything else, you won't look back. The analogy is probably server and client. 

For some probably good reason Roon avoided that "picture". 

 

So then unless you start to push your Docker to hard, I suppose you've found your Roon server solution for now. 

 

You probably don't know but I learned about the Docker option from you, and probably many people don't know this route to utilizing Roon. It may as I said be one of the best. 

 

I suppose your SACD also produces sound on that tiny PC. Totally meaningless of cause. 

 

There is a thread :

Maybe you get inspired to make some virtual switches on your NAS. ?

 

I haven't studied everything on your Marantz, so I don't know if it does DSD. But I would expect PCM 192/24 for sure. 

So have you considered HQPlayer? Or do you know what it is ?

 

Even today your PC will do HQPlayer for PCM. But don't download and test it before the rest works. 

 

If your docker do VM's, you can install HQPlayer on those. Actually you can install Roon as well ?

But I'm not sure if a good way to go. Maybe for testing. 

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

5 hours ago, bozrdang said:

Yes.  My goal is to combine a good home theater with a good stereo setup.  What solution did you finally settle upon?

 

Before I answer more, are you able to read somewhere in my profile what equipment I have. 

I haven't fully understood all features of the new CA yet ?

[R1200CL]

On 5.4.2017 at 3:31 AM, bozrdang said:

I already have speakers and amps.  I am simply looking for a high quality end point for Roon. 

 

On 5.4.2017 at 3:10 AM, Silly goose said:

But its looking like the USB input on the Marantz is just for memory devices and I'm not sure it wall take audio input through it

 

You should still go for the MicroRendu, and then you add the Singxer F1 as an USB/SPDIF converter.

 

If you don't plan to upgrade your Marantz, the only way to do this properly is a USB/SPDIF converter. As said you can also test with your computer as an endpoint (Install Roon Brigde) and use HMDI. If you laptop has HMDI.