Best way to play sacd-iso MCH

[Brewie]

I use the Dune Solo Lite player to connect to my Synology NAS via Ethernet. Output is HDMI that is connected to my AVR.

Dune plays all formats including iso, DSF, FLAC, mch FLAC, mch DSF.

Alternatively I use the OPPO 103 that is also connected via HDMI to my AVR. Only difference; it cannot play iso format.

I guess the combination OPPO/AVR sounds a bit better than DUNE/AVR (price is also quite different).

 

[Brewie]

In my case I use an .iso file on my NAS (or alternatively on my PC) and I can access it with the DUNE player (which is only a small 150 Euro mediaplayer). The dune player plays the .iso file like any other music file (flac, mp3, wav, mch flach, mch dsf).

Then the output from dune (hdmi) is send to the input of my AVR (hdmi again).

I can do the same with any other file format.

If you use an SACD disk in your OPPO, the SACD format is also .iso and it will play the disk of course.

However if you use your OPPO to play an .iso file from the network, it won't be able to play it. Any other files like flac, mp3, mch flac, mch dsf will not be any problem to play.

[Brewie]

It is also working for mch Iso files.

I never tried routing it from Dune to Oppo to AVR.

[Brewie]

I have Converted Most of my iso files to mch dsf or mch flac with foobar because then I can Play Them from NAS to Oppo to AVR...... simplifies my life .

no quality loss 

[Brewie]

I am still waiting for an AVR that can do this all in ONE piece. New AVR's are now capable playing DSD (DSF), FLAC and all kind of formats, but none of them can play .iso or MCH. I think it is a matter of time until they come with these features, because music consumption via NAS and Network is just starting. The technology is there but I guess it is still just a little bit too expensive for the AVR companies to produce it the way OPPO started doing it. Maybe we will even see AVR's with harddisks inside :-)

I do not understand however why a 3000+ Euro AVR cannot do the job..... they should include all technology possible for that money.

If you look at the price of an ESS9038pro we talk about $50 pricetag or so.

 

[Brewie]

I just read that the new Panasonic DP-UB9004 can also play mch FLAC and mch DSD files. It even includes analog output (to use the internal DAC) as well as HDMI for mch and 2x XLR for stereo. Probably it can't deal with .iso like all the others. It looks however that it is capable to match the OPPO  udp 205 for only 950 euro.

[Brewie]

Did you listen to it? I have not had a chance yet. A test was very positive and mentioned that it could even play mch

 

[Brewie]

I thought it might be helpful for some readers to learn a little bit more about ripping SACD's, working with MCH formats and .iso etc, so I copied some stuff from the internet from different places. Mybe it helps to find your way in this labyrint.....

 

ISO to DSF (DSD=DSF or DFF) conversion : 

Download ISO2DSD ( Sonore) http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129913.0

Run the file iso2dsd_gui.exe

Select File Input

Select dual for stereo conversion and multi for MCH conversion

Select Sony DSF

Select the ISO file and execute. Target file is created in sonore directory on pc (not on NAS!). Source directory can be on NAS.

 

[Brewie]

Play ISO files via PC with Foobar2000:

download Foobar 2000,

+ foobar extention DSDIFF  https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_input_dsdiff      Adds decoding support for DSDIFF files (.DFF) with a file that needs to be copied in the foobar directory (foo_input_dsdiff.dll)

+ SACD decoder for foobar (SACD component)  install in foobar under “help” the sacd component http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_input_sacd/

(set 88.2 khz and NOT 176 khz, in the SACD decoder addon configuration.)

The easiest way to convert the SACD ISO to FLAC if using Windows is with Foobar2000 after installing the Super Audio CD Decoder (foo_input_sacd). The SACD decoder settings are not well explained so here are the settings I use:

Output Mode: PCM

PCM Volume: +0 dB (first pass)

PCM Samplerate: 88200

DSD2PCM Mode: Multistage (64fp)

Preferable Area: None, Stereo, Multichannel (I set to none and then select the files to convert separately)

Editable Tags: checked

Store Tags with ISO: checked

Linked 2CH/MCH Tags: checked

Edited Master Playback: checked

DSD Processor: None

After the first conversion to FLAC I analyze the audio files in JRiver to discover the Peak level. SACD's peak levels are typically 3 to 6 dB below the 0 dB clipping level. If the peak for any track in the album is say -4.2 dB I rip again with Foobar with the PCM Volume set to +4 dB.

[Brewie]

Mediainfo

To recognize what is a MCH file or a Stereo file use mediainfo  http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

[Brewie]

If FLAC files have the wrong channels, you can switch channels with audacity

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,63269.0.html

 

DSF to FLAC

Foobar Settings for converting from DSF to FLAC:

For „convert“ choose the “…..“ setting.  FLAC level 4. The higher the nr. the higher the compression. Unfortunately Pioneer has some trouble with high compression (more DAC/CPU power required) that’s why to choose level 4.

Foobar preferences: SACD: PCM, no volume adjustments so “0”. Sample rate 88,2 and for DSD2PCM mode use “Multistage floating point” (seems to be the best conversion setting).

 

Or use foobar to directly convert from Iso to Flac 24/88.2

[Brewie]

Foobar settings:

To convert ISO into FLAC 24/88.2, you need to download flac.exe from the flac website (http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/flac/ ) first and put this file into the foobar directory under components.

Select the second half of the files (typically the FLAC MCH files) to convert into flac 24/88.2  If an album has 9 songs, generally tracks 1-9 will be the stereo ones and 10-18 will be the multichannel ones. As far as SACD ISO is concerned, remove the first set of tracks so only the multi-channel remain in foobar, then convert them to FLAC as is.

[Brewie]

Copyright issue, content removed.

[Brewie]

MP3TAG

https://www.mp3tag.de/en/index.html

Mp3tag is a powerful and easy-to-use tool to edit metadata of audio files.

It supports batch tag-editing of ID3v1, ID3v2.3, ID3v2.4, iTunes MP4, WMA, Vorbis Comments and APE Tags for multiple files at once covering a variety of audio formats.

Furthermore, it supports online database lookups from, e.g., Discogs, MusicBrainz or freedb, allowing you to automatically gather proper tags and download cover art for your music library.

You can rename files based on the tag information, replace characters or words in tags and filenames, import/export tag information, create playlists and more.

Main features:

Batch Tag Editing Write ID3v1.1, ID3v2.3, ID3v2.4, MP4, WMA, APEv2 Tags and Vorbis Comments to multiple files at once.

Support for Cover Art Download and add album covers to your files and make your library even more shiny.

Import from Discogs, freedb, MusicBrainz Save typing and import tags from online databases like Discogs, freedb, MusicBrainz, and more.

Replace characters or words Replace strings in tags and filenames (with support for Regular Expressions).

Create Playlists automatically Create and manage playlists automatically while editing.

Rename files from tags Rename files based on the tag information and import tags from filenames.

Export to HTML, RTF, CSV Generate nice reports and lists of your collection based on user-defined templates.

Full Unicode Support User-interface and tagging are fully Unicode compliant.

Besides these main features Mp3tag offers a variety of other functions and features ranging ranging from batch export of embedded album covers, over support for iTunes-specific tags like media type or TV Show settings, to combining multiple actions into groups that can be applied with a single mouse click

[Brewie]

Kal, you are right, but I mentioned that it was copied.  I just thought it would be helpful for newbies to have it all in one place.

I needed quite some time to find all this stuff (by the way not only here on computeraudiophile). Hopefully we will now influence even more people to increase the MCH community :-)

 

[Brewie]

Ripping SACDs with an Oppo 103/105 player and converting the retreived iso file to MCH DSF file (special thx to Kal)

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-93-minidsp-ripping-sacds-page-2

 

I hope this fits the rules now

[Brewie]

Harrie, do you have a link? and does it work for the UDP-203?

Please also confirm if NAS works if you have a chance.

[Brewie]

like with the greek horse I feel very uncomfortable unpacking such a zipped russian horse in my own city ....

[Brewie]

Ali Express link for your 203/205 upgrade

 

[Brewie]

another very helpful tool that splits a single big audio file, mostly an album or a compilation, into the relative independent audio tracks, using the informations stored in its associated .CUE file; without decoding/re-encoding the data stream

http://www.medieval.it/cuesplitter-pc/menu-id-71.html

 

[Brewie]

The place to check for DSD multichannel Hardware (Always updated):

https://dsd-guide.com/current-dsd-hardware-software-and-content

 

[Brewie]

Hi Kal,

the list with devices here is however the most complete I can find anywhere in the Internet.

Obviously it would be nice if more formats are added like iso, flac, dts…… but ok.

Your special MCH solution with 3 Stereo DACs is very special and perhaps for most people a bit too complicated.

I prefer to keep it simple: NAS -> OPPO -> AVR -> 5.1 speakers 

Soon there will be AVR's with DAC's like the ESS9038 pro included that can handle it all and the route will be NAS -> AVR -> 5.1 Speakers.

Hopefully this is not taking too long anymore. All technology is available; the big ones (Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc.) just need to bring it all together now. I guess it is a matter of price.

 

 

[Brewie]

Harrie, good to hear that you are also happy with the Oppo 205 🙂 One is enough for me though....

I cannot complain either about it, but I miss some comfort in navigating through my NAS via the OPPO.

Looking at some new announced AVR's there might be some on the horizon that can handle the Job: Pioneer SC-LX904, Onkyo TX-RZ3400 , Marantz SR8013 or the Yamaha CX-A5200 + MX-A5200. All look very promising in their specs.

I am waiting for the first reviews to understand more about their MCH DAC & Streaming capabilities. 

 

[Brewie]

Reading some of the AVR reviews on the audiosciencereview website (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?reviews/) let me doubt that AVRs are the the best solution for MCH DAC & Streaming of my NAS content...… latest Pioneer and NAD models were defenitely a desaster and I doubt that Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Arcam, Anthem and the others are much better……...   

Finally someone is testing DAC's and amplifiers in a neutral non-subjective way. Most of the Audio reviews that we get to read just copy some of the specs and  give a "mostly" very personal review on how it all sounds. 

 

[Brewie]

Yes, isn't it strange that Eisa and others rate the tested AVRs (in this prominent case; the NAD and the Pioneer) so much different to what measurements show? I understand that everybody has it's own taste and nobody hears the same but this is too  much of a difference. I hope some of the Audio testers start buying some serious test Equipment now.