A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[amir57bs]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:05 AM, romaz said:

This is a very good question. I have a lot of experience with various single box purpose-built music servers with USB streams including a TotalDac-d1 server, Aurender N100 with Ken Lau PSU, Aurender N10, Aurender W20, Lumin U1, CAD CAT, Auralic Aries with femto clock and LPS, various custom-built CAPS servers and more. Here is the thread I started on Head-Fi:

 

REVIEW: Comparison of 5 High End Digital Music Servers - Aurender N10, CAD CAT server, TotalDac d1-Server, Auralic Aries, Audiophile Vortex Box

 

None of those single box units ever sounded anywhere close to what I am hearing now. That is how special both the microRendu and sMS-200 are, imo. This direct connection has much to do with it also but so does my Paul Hynes SR7 which I just got recently. I am finding these things to be the key pieces so far.

 

do you mean using microRendu is far better than Single Box (with Sotm PCIe to USB CARD) ?

[amir57bs]

9 hours ago, romaz said:

 

When powered by a superior low noise, low impedance PSU, yes, this has been my experience thus far.

 

With any large single box device, you have one device that must wear 2 hats and perform 2 important functions -- server and renderer.  Servers are often called upon to do a lot of heavy lifting such as running demanding music server apps and managing large music libraries.  In some systems, the server is also called upon to perform DSP functions and oversampling that require considerable computational power meaning powerful CPUs and lots of RAM.  Because these heavy lifting machines require larger motherboards that are seldom designed from the ground up for high fidelity audio playback, they contain numerous switching regulators, bad clocks, and unnecessary ICs.  What you end up with is a bloated, noisy, high-impedance system that is ill-suited to function as a renderer.  

 

The ideal renderer should have ultra low noise characteristics and be fleet-footed, responsive and agile (low impedance) because ultimately, this is the device that will be responsible for presenting your DAC a signal that is of the highest possible integrity.  In my experience, it is very hard (if not impossible) to be both George Foreman and Usain Bolt.  To be forced to choose one or the other results in significant compromises.  Because servers are noisy, it has generally been accepted that there must be separation (or at least isolation) between server and renderer.  With network renderers like the mR and sMS-200, that isolation is the galvanic isolation that is inherent within the Ethernet protocol.

 

Equally important, it is much more challenging to properly power a large ATX-based server.  An LPS-1 won't do it.  To design and build an ATX PSU with SR7-level performance would probably cost >$4k.  To properly power a lightweight endpoint is much easier to do.

 

Dedicated USB cards like SOtM's tX-USBexp or Paul Pang's V3 or V4 are very good but I'm not sure they provide enough isolation.  Even with SOtM's latest server, the sMS-1000SQ Ultra (which incorporates their latest clock in their USB card), SOtM claims that adding a tX-USBUltra to it results in further "huge" improvement.  I wouldn't be surprised if those who have invested heavily in an Aurender W20, Baetis Reference, Antipodes DX, Lumin U1, TotalDac Server or Sound Galleries SGM2015 find that adding an ISO Regen or tX-USBUltra to their single box server results in further significant improvement.

 

Thanks a million Romaz , nice write up , I agree you it is hard to get good sound if we use single box.

i think in my setup (My Berkeley Alpha USB to SPDIF Converter use Gordon Rankin AS codes) renderer should be as direct as possible to Stream data.

i have used iUSB 3.0 and Uptone Regen between Macbook and Berkeley . the result was awful .

after using some setups i have convinced the only way to get proper sound is using Gordon Ranking AS codes.

Berkeley , Ayre and Wavelength use Gordon Rankin AS Codes.

 

i have tested usb output of these 3 systems:

1. Macbook Pro 2014 (Mavericks + CAT Optimized code + Roon + renice coreaudio -20)

2. very low power ALIX 2d2 board as renderer with bit-perfect voyage mpd (www.lacocina.nl)

3. Desktop PC windows bit-perfect Foobar

4. OLD Macbook

 

all of them were crap sounding but Macbook pro was reasonable.

 

i guess ethernet renderer could not be the final solution and i guess using properly designed PCIe cards will be the right/hard direction.

I have read your comments and i 100% agree you the most important factor is good Power supply.

 

I think about a headless fanless Diskless (PXE Boot) low clock low power PC with good power supply plus a good PCIe Card powered by good linear power supply. i need no dsp or upsampling and i just use bit-perfect 44.1/16.

Supermicro X11SSH-F (directly connected x16 PCIe) and Xeon E3-1240L v5 (25w) are in my short list. i guess linux mpd could be better than windows/Roon but i am not sure.

 

my reference is CEC TL0-X to compare the result.

 

[amir57bs]

9 hours ago, romaz said:

I wouldn't be surprised if those who have invested heavily in an Aurender W20, Baetis Reference, Antipodes DX, Lumin U1, TotalDac Server or Sound Galleries SGM2015 find that adding an ISO Regen or tX-USBUltra to their single box server results in further significant improvement.

100% agree.

Gordon Rankin think the best way is usb not ethernet and in his DAC he use opto isolation and convert usb to i2s.

i use berkeley because i use ear dac 4 spdif input.

[amir57bs]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:46 PM, romaz said:

It turns out the Antipodes DX uses a certain Jetway SoC mini ITX motherboard that incorporates a 4-core Celeron with a TDP of only 7.5w.  Mark also went with an SOtM tX-USBhubIn as his USB output card.  It is unclear if he is using SOtM's newest superclock.  The point is that with this Celeron-based SoC motherboard, this machine runs Roon 1.3 just fine (with the exception of upsampling to DSD) and it sounds wonderful.

are you sure about using celeron in DX?

in it's website i found they use Atom processor if i am not mistaken!

[amir57bs]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:46 PM, romaz said:

I was convinced, however, that I wanted an SoC motherboard and a motherboard that I could directly power with my SR7 without having to use an ATX converter and so this has led to quite a search.  Most low power motherboards that met this criteria unfortunately use Celerons like the J1900, a 4-core CPU with a TDP of 10w and a measly 2MB of L3 cache.  What's worse, this cache isn't Intel's SmartCache meaning each core only has access to 1MB of cache max and that 1MB is then shared with another core.

how can you power an ATX socket with SR7? it seems you should buy 3 or 4 SR7! is it right?

[amir57bs]

1 minute ago, ElviaCaprice said:

He just said it wasn't an ATX board.  A DC board.  Is this better?  Probably not, since the board will be performing the Pico ATX tasks.

 

i guess @romaz think about powering ATX with 4 SR7 and not using motherboard internal DC-DC converter.

[amir57bs]

where is @romaz ?, this topic needs him

[amir57bs]

On 2/22/2017 at 1:04 AM, romaz said:

Here are soPaul does not have a presence here on CA and for those who wish to correspond with him, you can do so via e-mail at [email protected].

I have send an email but no answer!

is this address OK?

[amir57bs]

55 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

Give Paul time, he'll get back to you.  Given how busy he is, he will go dark with his communications at times but his communications are among the most thoughtful, articulate, informative and educational that I have come across.  Also, while he has help, he is essentially a one man show and wears many hats.  His custom made-to-order SR5/SR7 PSUs take time to design and build as he relies on outside sources to provide key materials including his custom specified transformers.  Given that his services are highly sought after, there is also the matter of a long queue but my long wait times have been justified by how his SR7 has transformed my system.

Thank you

if i find no good psu in my city then i will order him sr7 . I hope your positive review about SR7 improve my sound .

[amir57bs]

Paul answered my email and there is good news about designing a ATX power supply by Paul.

[amir57bs]

A good low power motherboard 

https://sp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/DS_D3313-S.pdf

 

fujitsu D3313-S5 

quad core AMD 5 watt 1.2Ghz

[amir57bs]

4 hours ago, romaz said:

I asked both May and Lee which would sound better:  SOtM USB card with sCLK-EX + tX-USBultra vs sMS-200 modded to Ultra status + tX-USBultra?  Neither are sure as they haven't done this testing.  My guess is an sMS-200ultra + tX-USBultra would have the greater potential with the X-factors being the "direct connection" path, the switch that you can throw in for very little money plus that fact that you have the option of using a pair of dCBL-CAT7s.

I recommend you to try purist audio anniversary usb cable . It is far better than curious/audioquest diamond/acoustic revive .I think it may change your idea about using sotm usb card vs sotm sms-200.

i guess the best way is pcie usb card plus good psu.

[amir57bs]

13 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Color the problem with a USB cable?  That's just as bad as the highly expensive Ethernet cables.  In my opinion, it's not a solution.

We have yet to hear an updated server mobo with clean power and clocks, may be yet a simple well sounding solution with tXBexpusb card and tXUSBultra, using all 4 clocks. 

It's going to be tough to beat a renderer.

 

Usb cable in my idea is very very important .

overally if you like emotional sound (true tone plus good micro dynamic) i think combination of gordon rankin codes plus purist cable is very good.

i do not like ultra smooth and clean sound of many systems , i prefer emotional sound .

i think ethernet renderer may give you ultra clean ultra smooth ultra low noise sound but i prefer intimate sound of pcie usb card with AS gordon rankin codes.

the best way to get emotional sound is to keep the way minimal.

adding reclockers or ethernet devices like microrendu add complexity of streaming data transfer and it will degrade intimacy of sound.

[amir57bs]

1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

If I wanted that kind of sound I'd do it with tubes in a SET amp/preamp.  Not a cable.  Best to use a USB adapter or shortest cable possible.

 

90% of tubes amplifier/pre are not emotional. they sound bad .

most clean systems cut micro dynamics and sound boring. lowering noise is not easy without altering micro dynamics

 

[amir57bs]

13 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

With S/PDIF and AES formats, clock jitter is directly affected by the audio data content to some degree, because of the different cable‑capacitance charging and discharging times that occur.

 

Ideally, the receiving circuitry will be able to remove this interface jitter, but not all devices manage this equally well (as shown in the investigations into A‑D converter clock‑recovery above), and if the embedded clocks are to be used as a clock reference (as is common practice in D‑A converters, for example), then this interface jitter can become part of the overall system's clock jitter, potentially resulting in reduced D‑A (or A‑D) performance.

 

Thank you

i could not focus on reading all the text, it is tooooooooo long  :-))))

[amir57bs]

52 minutes ago, romaz said:

With SOtM's PCIe USB card, it sounds best if externally powered with a 9V supply.  He can remove the first regulator which would mean you could externally feed it 5V but he believes this first linear regulator stage, which is his special design, is one of the things that is responsible for the quality of this card.  You could use something stellar like an LPS-1 or SR7 but the quality of the DC cabling used (which will definitely add some noise) could very well make this USB card sound worse with this first regulator removed.  That would be his only caution.

Thank you Roy

do you recommend removing regulator on external input of Sotm USBexp card?

JCAT Usb card external input voltage is 5v  , it seems JCAT use linear regulator and sotm use one switching regulator.

[amir57bs]

5 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

Adnaco makes the JCAT USB card and I have looked at it.  I believe not all regulators on this card are linear.  The SOtM card uses one switching regulator out of necessity while the rest are linear but Lee did his best to filter out its negative impact.  If you are using a high quality PSU like the LPS-1 or if all you have is the LPS-1, then I would probably ask Lee to remove the first stage regulator so that you can power it directly with 5V instead of 9V but then take care to use a well insulated (and as short as possible) DC cable.

 

Thank you

i have both JCAT and Sotm Card but i am waiting to get my motherboard.

I will order Paul an SR7 . i will send an email to Sotm to remove that regulator.

[amir57bs]

 

1 minute ago, romaz said:

This will effectively be my last post, at least for the foreseeable future.  As I stated previously, after Munich, I am committed to signing off for a while from public forums and I need to honor this commitment and so forgive me if I don't respond to public or private queries for a period of time.  Once my system is complete, I will attempt to resurface to share my findings for those that are interested but that may not happen soon.  I've enjoyed this thread very much.  I hope it continues.  Thank you all for your friendship.

Thank you Very much for all useful information , you are great

[amir57bs]

17 hours ago, romaz said:

 

My new DR SR7 has arrived and the difference against my single regulated SR7 is easily noticeable and very worthwhile.  Improved dynamic contrasts and an even smoother, more relaxed and effortless presentation.  I wasn't sure how my SR7 could get better and now I know.  This is a highly recommended upgrade and I have now decided to replace my standard SR7MR2XL with the DR version.

 

Here is what Paul Hynes had to say:

 

"The DR version effectively expands the dynamic range of clean power delivery by reducing output voltage sag with larger load transient current delivery and reducing the overall noise level of the output voltage rail over the range of load current change. There are other benefits but I would prefer you to have the experience of these before I say anything further, as I do not want to affect your conclusions in any way."

 

I am going to order one but i told paul to design a better chassis like streacom FC9. my problem is bad looking chassis of SR7

[amir57bs]

10 hours ago, romaz said:

 

I can say that the SR7 chassis looks much better in person than in photos.  I can also say that I prefer the black anodized chassis more.  Regardless of how it looks, it is a very solidly constructed chassis.

yesterday Paul had Good news to me, he is using FC9 chassis for my order.

i am very happy .

I ordered SR7DRMR2XL £1480

12v 10A

5v 6A

[amir57bs]

5 hours ago, romaz said:

 

Congratulations.  The FC9 is a wonderful (and very attractive) chassis.  I am using it for my new server.

 

Great

thank you

[amir57bs]

Thank you Paul

my order confirmed by paul in Streacom FC9 chassis :

1 off SR7DRMR3XLFC9         3 output: 12v(10A) 9v(6A) 5v(6A)
1 off DC10FSXL 60cm        
2 off DC6FSXL 60cm        
 

@romaz Thank you , i will back to report the sound of Paul PSU

 

Also i contacted Berkeley Audio Design about using external power supply.

Michael Ritter told me the oem PSU is good enough .

[amir57bs]

12 hours ago, romaz said:

Having attended numerous audio shows in the past year since moving to these speakers (including CES, AXPONA, RMAF, Newport, San Francisco, and most recently, Munich), I have had a chance to listen to many fine speaker setups from the likes of Magico, Focal, B&W, Wilson, Rockport, Boenicke, AudioNote UK, Voxativ, etc. and even in rooms that contained 7-figure setups, very few captivated me like my own system at home.  While my low power system is incapable of presenting Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture or Mahler's 8th in full scale like a pair of $180k Focal Grande Utopia EMs powered by a $200K pair of Naim Statement monoblock amplifiers, I found my system to exceed it in terms of fine detail, texture, delicacy and nuance.  Where many systems only sound their best played loud, my near field setup comes into its own at my preferred and much less fatiguing lower listening levels.  

 

The only speakers I have heard that have consistently piqued my interest have been the Voxativ 9.87s.  They are the creation of Holger Adler from Berlin and each time I have gone into the Voxativ room at these shows, I have often stayed for hours.  Well, I finally got a pair of Voxativs to evaluate in my system at home a few days ago and just as I feared, they blow my beloved Omegas away.  Not even close as far as resolution and transparency are concerned but what really sets them apart is this wonderful tonal richness and density that the Omegas are unable to convey.  I have yet to hear anything, regardless of price, that image as well as these speakers and at nearly 11 ohms of impedance and nearly 100dB efficiency, they are an easier load for my DAVE to drive directly and so the presentation is even more effortless and relaxed.

in my idea the only way to get good sound is going to high sensitivity loudspeakers. arthur salvatore  ( www.high-endaudio.com ) think like me about that.

music at first step should be dynamic and only high sensitive speakers could play micro dynamics.

i never listened living voice horn but it seems is very good.

audionote is good but 2way systems are limited.

[amir57bs]

two company are my favorite to design music server.

Audio Note

CEC

it seems they have no plan to design music server

[amir57bs]

On 7/17/2017 at 4:39 AM, romaz said:

Last year, during another shootout, I was surprised by how easily the Curious USB was beaten by other USB cables.  I found the Curious slightly bettered by the Audience AU24SE and Transparent Premium USB but rather soundly beaten by the Clarity Cables Natural USB.  This is a cable comprised of single crystal silver with a cotton dielectric.  Data and power lines are separated and this cable is extremely heavily shielded.  Each cable is handmade by Chris Owens, a former NASA engineer and measured to exactly 90 ohms differential impedance, something that he stated is not easy to do.  What this cable brings is speed and detail without harshness or thinness and a very expansive soundstage.  Not as emotive in the midrange as the Transparent Premium USB, which is my second favorite USB cable, but much more resolving.  With the Clarity Cables Natural USB, I had come to the conclusion that meeting USB 2.0 spec mattered with regards to USB signal integrity.  At $1k for a 0.75m length, this cable is not cheap but it has been my reference USB cable for the past year.

 

Comparing the USPCB to various USB cables I presently have on hand, one thing is clear, USB cables can make a big difference and cable disbelievers should take note.  With most cables I have on hand, the USPCB asserts its superiority.  There is probably no USB cable in existence that meets USB spec as perfectly and this is as close to an invisible cable as there is, however, is it the best?  This is where system needs and personal preference come into play.

 

When directly comparing the USPCB against my Clarity Cables Natural USB, the USPCB has greater immediacy.  It is more “in your face” whereas my Clarity Natural has a calmer, more relaxed presentation.  The USPCB has a more commanding leading edge and crystal clear clarity that makes you take notice immediately although the Clarity Natural presents detail and delicacy every bit as well.  For my Omegas, I easily prefer the USPCB but for the Voxativs I have on hand, I prefer the Clarity Natural.  It just sounds more “natural.”

 

I took notice of Hol’s comments about his new Lush USB cable and I find Peter Stordiau’s approach fascinating, that meeting USB 2.0 spec in theory results in better signal integrity but does it lead to better, more natural sound?  I don’t know the answer to that but I have placed my order for a Lush USB cable and so I’ll be able to hear for myself.  I have also ordered SOtM’s new USB cable.  It is not yet on their website but it incorporates the exact same filter block used in the dCBL-CAT7.  In the end, I suspect it will once again come down to system needs and personal preference.

Romaz , I have used these USB Cables Acoustic Revive , Curious , AQ Diamond , iFi , HP , Purist Anniversary.

after over 300 hours of break-in time the result was this:

Purist Audio Anniversary : 100/100 lush midrange and natural . the only cable changed my system to a new level of realism. no other cable were even close to Purist.

Acoustic Revive: 50/100 very analytical , un natural transparency. not musical

Curious: 30/100 not good

other cables were below 30 score.

 

 

I should say only the Purist Anniversary turn your system to a new level of natural and emotional sound.

if you prefer natural emotional sound of good analog and not artificial resolution of today systems  just go for Purist Audio.

 

Amir