A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Theobetley]

Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention, I would say that this improvement is quite significant, nonetheless, and once you hear it, I suspect you will not wish to go back to your previous setup. More importantly, this is neither difficult nor expensive to implement.

 

 

Much has been said about how ethernet renderers like the microRendu and the sMS-200 are immune to upstream components. Because ethernet is transformer coupled, it is inherently galvanically isolated and because of the error correcting packet protocol it employs, data is always bit-perfect and so it would seem that ethernet is an ideal data delivery vehicle for a digital audio stream. Indeed, when I first purchased my microRendu back in May, I tested it with a variety of standard sources including a Windows NUC, Windows laptop, Mac Pro, Macbook Pro and sonicTransporter and even when a certain source was powered by my HDPlex, I noticed no significant difference among these sources, at least not enough to care which one was feeding my microRendu. I have also explored and compared a variety of ethernet optimization techniques including optical isolation with FMCs (powered by LPS-1), an audiophile switch with TCXO clock by Paul Pang (powered by LPS-1) and various audiophile ethernet cables (BJC CAT 6A, SOtM dCBL-CAT6 with iSO-CAT6, AQ Vodka + Diamond, Supra CAT8, WireWorld Silver Starlight CAT8) and while they can and do make a difference, even collectively, the difference has never been that great, certainly not enough to want to spend lots of effort or money on these things. At least that has been my experience and so this is a compliment to both the microRendu and the sMS-200, that they are that immune to what is upstream...or are they?

 

Like with many of you, things changed when I received my LPS-1 as this power supply was eye opening in how it transformed my microRendu. This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply would also transform my upstream components including a simple NUC or Mac Mini even with the microRendu or sMS-200 in place (I own both of these units). It was surprising to find out that even my internet modem/router similarly benefited. It turns out that while ethernet is good for isolating noise, it cannot fix a signal already molested at the modem/router or music server level. In the same way that the LPS-1 improved both the macro and microdynamic capabilities of my microRendu, my Paul Hynes SR7 has also magically transformed my modified Mac Mini and internet modem/router and both the microRendu and sMS-200 fully reveal these benefits but truth be told, these benefits are much more fully realized if these endpoints themselves are powered by a low impedance PSU. This is not some mild transformation that you need to blind test to convince yourself is real, this is something a semi-deaf person can distinguish because the dynamic contrasts with the Paul Hynes SR7 driving both my Mac Mini and internet modem/router is that much more thunderous, enough so that I have had to literally turn my subwoofer down a notch. If you think about it, there's no good reason why this shouldn't be happening. The whole purpose of the microRendu or sMS-200 and devices like the USB Regen is to present a DAC with a signal of the highest integrity. Why wouldn't the microRendu or sMS-200 similarly benefit from being presented with high signal integrity by the components before it?

 

I have come to the conclusion that this impact has more to do with low impedance than the low noise characteristics of the power supply fronting these upstream devices because as you recall, ethernet is transformer coupled and so is inherently galvanically isolated and with the FMCs that I employ in my network (which are powered by my LPS-1), no RF noise or leakage current should be reaching my microRendu or sMS-200. What is the measured output impedance of the Paul Hynes SR7? According to Paul, his SR5 and SR7 measure <3 millohms from DC to 100kHz and so consider this number as a reference point for comparison. Having asked around, it seems no one else can provide these impedance measurements over what John Swenson describes to be his ideal frequency range either because they don't own the measuring equipment to do so or because they don't believe this spec is important. What I can tell you is that neither my HDPlex or Teradak are low impedance LPSUs because neither of these units are good enough to allow me to distinguish one source from another when fronted by either the microRendu or sMS-200 and both are soundly trounced by my LPS-1 and my SR7 when it comes to soundstage dimensionality. While I have not had the opportunity to compare the Sonore Signature Power Supply to either of these two units, based on what I am hearing from respected sources and conversations I have had with Barrows, I have no doubt this is an excellent and very low impedance PSU. Based on how good the LPS-1 is, logic would suggest Vinnie Rossi's ultracap-based supply is likely of similar caliber. The problem with these other supplies is that neither of them have enough juice to power a Mac Mini, Nuc or my TP-Link internet modem/router as each of these devices require at least 12V/3.5A.

 

Of course, this discovery led to quite a bit of curiosity about other areas. What would happen if I directly connected my Mac Mini to either my microRendu or sMS-200? Intuitively, I had a hard time believing this should make a difference. If so, why weren't the microRendu or sMS-200 designed by their wise creators to connect this way? I further had a difficult time believing my internet modem/router or my Paul Pang switch with TCXO clock should have any real detrimental impact on either of these endpoints since the modem/router was currently being powered by my Paul Hynes SR7 and my Paul Pang switch was being powered by my LPS-1 and moreover, I had optical isolation in place and yet Mark Jenkins, owner and developer of the Antipodes line of music servers, had this to say about his latest generation Roon Ready DX music server. This excerpt is taken from John Darko's review of this latest generation DX server:

 

"A third way to plumb Roon inside the DX is to have Roon Core talk to Roon Ready directly. Think of this scenario as Roon playing out the server-client model not on a LAN but inside a single computer.

 

Jenkins clarifies: "They [Roon Core and Roon Ready] talk using RAAT but when they are in the same device they do not need to use the not-so-good comms layers that sit underneath RAAT when the two apps talk across a network."

I'm not sure I know what Mark meant by this exactly but he details a greater clarity and immediacy to the sound of Roon using this method and so I felt compelled to try and create this direct connection between my Mac Mini and my microRendu/sMS-200. This wouldn't be so difficult if either device had the ability to assign itself a static IP. Unfortunately, this was never possible with the microRendu and this feature was taken away from the sMS-200 after firmware 1.9 and because each device must be assigned an IP address by a router for control purposes, it didn't appear as if there would be an easy way to accomplish this.

 

It turns out OSX can function as its own DHCP server and so I used El Capitan to assign an IP address to one of the two ethernet ports I have on my Mac Mini (the Mac Mini comes natively with only one ethernet port but my Thunderbolt hub comes with its own ethernet port thereby giving me two such ports). I connected my sMS-200 to one port and my router to the other port and it worked but there were problems. Because OSX insisted on connecting this second port on a separate subnet, my sMS-200 had no outlet to the internet (for Tidal streaming) nor could it be controlled remotely by my iPad and so this was a "no go." When I manually forced both ports to be on the same subnet, my Mac Mini would get confused as to which ethernet port had control and it would lock up. It then dawned on me that I could bridge the two ethernet ports and BINGO! This accomplished exactly what I wanted to accomplish. Both ethernet ports were now on the same subnet and with one port connected directly to my sMS-200 and the other port connected directly to my router, everything was running smoothly. I could now easily access the sMS-200 remotely from my iPad and other machines that were on the network and the sMS-200 could access the internet. While I have not yet tried my microRendu this way (it is presently on loan), I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way. What is interesting is with this bridged configuration, my internet modem/router is now responsible for assigning the sMS-200 an IP address and yet the sMS-200 is physically directly connected to my Mac Mini without the intermediary "not so good comm layers" that Mark Jenkins describes.

 

So how does this direct connection sound? Simply glorious! While a low impedance power supply brings depth and dynamics to my upstream components, this direct connection brings amazing clarity and immediacy. It's as if one very thick veil has been removed and that my seat has been upgraded from the balcony to the stalls. I would rate the impact of this as equivalent in magnitude to employing a low impedance PSU. Many of you are aware of the claims many are making on several threads here on CA but also on HeadFi of how RedNet and Dante provides this "you are there" clarity. I had a ReNet 3 in my home for evaluation for nearly a month and I agree, it provides this beguiling sense of clarity that has to be heard to be appreciated although the problem with RedNet, I believe, is its inferior switching PSU. These units sound flat and dimensionless compared to my described setup above and so this clarity that RedNet brings almost sounds sterile and lifeless in comparison. Regardless, proponents of RedNet have suggested the problem with USB endpoints like the microRendu and sMS-200 is with USB. What I am hearing suggests USB is not the problem but perhaps the Dante technology by Audinate that RedNet utilizes has figured out how to eliminate the impact of these "not so good comms" in the network signal path. I have now been listening to this arrangement for much of the past week and so the initial emotions that can cloud one's judgement have settled down and my opinion remains the same as the first moment I heard it. To borrow from Chris Connaker, after all of this, I can unequivocally say that my audio system has never sounded better than it has now. For me, there is no going back.

 

For those interested in reproducing what I have done, first of all, you will need a music server with 2 ethernet ports. Current Mac Pros already have 2 ethernet ports. Mac Minis do not but I can verify that you can add a Thunderbolt ethernet port and it works very well. Many Windows PCs have 2 ethernet ports and if not, if you have a spare PCI or PCIE slot, you could inexpensively add one. Will a USB ethernet connection work? I don't see why not but I haven't tried it and I don't know how it will sound. I do know that you can't bridge a wi-fi connection and an ethernet connection.

 

So how do you bridge 2 ethernet ports? If you are on Linux, I can't help you but I'm sure it's possible. If you are on a Mac, here are the fairly simple instructions that I followed. Feel free to use DHCP but you are also free to assign a static IP:

 

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH18510?locale=en_US

 

For Windows, @jelt2359 has confirmed for me that the following directions below worked on his Windows 10 Nuc although he had to manually configure the bridge's DNS and IP addresses.

 

How to create a Network Bridge in Windows 10/8/7

 

Obviously, if you decide to try this, please report back your findings here. If there is consensus that this improvement is universal, perhaps Sonore and SOtM can be convinced to allow their units to be configured to be directly accessed more easily.

This is very exciting. Let me suggest the steps for those of us who are not experts on networking

 

1) connect pc to router with 1 of 2 Ethernet ports on pc

2) connect pc to microRendu with other Ethernet port

3) assign a manual static set of descriptors for both networks

4) go to instructions for bridging these 2 separate networks

 

I googled how to set manual addresses etc and still don't understand. Anybody that can help on this would be greatly appreciated. I know where to get my microRendu isp address but what about my regular router isp. Where is that?

[Theobetley]

Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention, I would say that this improvement is quite significant, nonetheless, and once you hear it, I suspect you will not wish to go back to your previous setup. More importantly, this is neither difficult nor expensive to implement.

 

Much has been said about how ethernet renderers like the microRendu and the sMS-200 are immune to upstream components. Because ethernet is transformer coupled, it is inherently galvanically isolated and because of the error correcting packet protocol it employs, data is always bit-perfect and so it would seem that ethernet is an ideal data delivery vehicle for a digital audio stream. Indeed, when I first purchased my microRendu back in May, I tested it with a variety of standard sources including a Windows NUC, Windows laptop, Mac Pro, Macbook Pro and sonicTransporter and even when a certain source was powered by my HDPlex, I noticed no significant difference among these sources, at least not enough to care which one was feeding my microRendu. I have also explored and compared a variety of ethernet optimization techniques including optical isolation with FMCs (powered by LPS-1), an audiophile switch with TCXO clock by Paul Pang (powered by LPS-1) and various audiophile ethernet cables (BJC CAT 6A, SOtM dCBL-CAT6 with iSO-CAT6, AQ Vodka + Diamond, Supra CAT8, WireWorld Silver Starlight CAT8) and while they can and do make a difference, even collectively, the difference has never been that great, certainly not enough to want to spend lots of effort or money on these things. At least that has been my experience and so this is a compliment to both the microRendu and the sMS-200, that they are that immune to what is upstream...or are they?

 

Like with many of you, things changed when I received my LPS-1 as this power supply was eye opening in how it transformed my microRendu. This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply would also transform my upstream components including a simple NUC or Mac Mini even with the microRendu or sMS-200 in place (I own both of these units). It was surprising to find out that even my internet modem/router similarly benefited. It turns out that while ethernet is good for isolating noise, it cannot fix a signal already molested at the modem/router or music server level. In the same way that the LPS-1 improved both the macro and microdynamic capabilities of my microRendu, my Paul Hynes SR7 has also magically transformed my modified Mac Mini and internet modem/router and both the microRendu and sMS-200 fully reveal these benefits but truth be told, these benefits are much more fully realized if these endpoints themselves are powered by a low impedance PSU. This is not some mild transformation that you need to blind test to convince yourself is real, this is something a semi-deaf person can distinguish because the dynamic contrasts with the Paul Hynes SR7 driving both my Mac Mini and internet modem/router is that much more thunderous, enough so that I have had to literally turn my subwoofer down a notch. If you think about it, there's no good reason why this shouldn't be happening. The whole purpose of the microRendu or sMS-200 and devices like the USB Regen is to present a DAC with a signal of the highest integrity. Why wouldn't the microRendu or sMS-200 similarly benefit from being presented with high signal integrity by the components before it?

 

I have come to the conclusion that this impact has more to do with low impedance than the low noise characteristics of the power supply fronting these upstream devices because as you recall, ethernet is transformer coupled and so is inherently galvanically isolated and with the FMCs that I employ in my network (which are powered by my LPS-1), no RF noise or leakage current should be reaching my microRendu or sMS-200. What is the measured output impedance of the Paul Hynes SR7? According to Paul, his SR5 and SR7 measure <3 millohms from DC to 100kHz and so consider this number as a reference point for comparison. Having asked around, it seems no one else can provide these impedance measurements over what John Swenson describes to be his ideal frequency range either because they don't own the measuring equipment to do so or because they don't believe this spec is important. What I can tell you is that neither my HDPlex or Teradak are low impedance LPSUs because neither of these units are good enough to allow me to distinguish one source from another when fronted by either the microRendu or sMS-200 and both are soundly trounced by my LPS-1 and my SR7 when it comes to soundstage dimensionality. While I have not had the opportunity to compare the Sonore Signature Power Supply to either of these two units, based on what I am hearing from respected sources and conversations I have had with Barrows, I have no doubt this is an excellent and very low impedance PSU. Based on how good the LPS-1 is, logic would suggest Vinnie Rossi's ultracap-based supply is likely of similar caliber. The problem with these other supplies is that neither of them have enough juice to power a Mac Mini, Nuc or my TP-Link internet modem/router as each of these devices require at least 12V/3.5A.

 

Of course, this discovery led to quite a bit of curiosity about other areas. What would happen if I directly connected my Mac Mini to either my microRendu or sMS-200? Intuitively, I had a hard time believing this should make a difference. If so, why weren't the microRendu or sMS-200 designed by their wise creators to connect this way? I further had a difficult time believing my internet modem/router or my Paul Pang switch with TCXO clock should have any real detrimental impact on either of these endpoints since the modem/router was currently being powered by my Paul Hynes SR7 and my Paul Pang switch was being powered by my LPS-1 and moreover, I had optical isolation in place and yet Mark Jenkins, owner and developer of the Antipodes line of music servers, had this to say about his latest generation Roon Ready DX music server. This excerpt is taken from John Darko's review of this latest generation DX server:

 

"A third way to plumb Roon inside the DX is to have Roon Core talk to Roon Ready directly. Think of this scenario as Roon playing out the server-client model not on a LAN but inside a single computer.

 

Jenkins clarifies: "They [Roon Core and Roon Ready] talk using RAAT but when they are in the same device they do not need to use the not-so-good comms layers that sit underneath RAAT when the two apps talk across a network."

I'm not sure I know what Mark meant by this exactly but he details a greater clarity and immediacy to the sound of Roon using this method and so I felt compelled to try and create this direct connection between my Mac Mini and my microRendu/sMS-200. This wouldn't be so difficult if either device had the ability to assign itself a static IP. Unfortunately, this was never possible with the microRendu and this feature was taken away from the sMS-200 after firmware 1.9 and because each device must be assigned an IP address by a router for control purposes, it didn't appear as if there would be an easy way to accomplish this.

 

It turns out OSX can function as its own DHCP server and so I used El Capitan to assign an IP address to one of the two ethernet ports I have on my Mac Mini (the Mac Mini comes natively with only one ethernet port but my Thunderbolt hub comes with its own ethernet port thereby giving me two such ports). I connected my sMS-200 to one port and my router to the other port and it worked but there were problems. Because OSX insisted on connecting this second port on a separate subnet, my sMS-200 had no outlet to the internet (for Tidal streaming) nor could it be controlled remotely by my iPad and so this was a "no go." When I manually forced both ports to be on the same subnet, my Mac Mini would get confused as to which ethernet port had control and it would lock up. It then dawned on me that I could bridge the two ethernet ports and BINGO! This accomplished exactly what I wanted to accomplish. Both ethernet ports were now on the same subnet and with one port connected directly to my sMS-200 and the other port connected directly to my router, everything was running smoothly. I could now easily access the sMS-200 remotely from my iPad and other machines that were on the network and the sMS-200 could access the internet. While I have not yet tried my microRendu this way (it is presently on loan), I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way. What is interesting is with this bridged configuration, my internet modem/router is now responsible for assigning the sMS-200 an IP address and yet the sMS-200 is physically directly connected to my Mac Mini without the intermediary "not so good comm layers" that Mark Jenkins describes.

 

So how does this direct connection sound? Simply glorious! While a low impedance power supply brings depth and dynamics to my upstream components, this direct connection brings amazing clarity and immediacy. It's as if one very thick veil has been removed and that my seat has been upgraded from the balcony to the stalls. I would rate the impact of this as equivalent in magnitude to employing a low impedance PSU. Many of you are aware of the claims many are making on several threads here on CA but also on HeadFi of how RedNet and Dante provides this "you are there" clarity. I had a ReNet 3 in my home for evaluation for nearly a month and I agree, it provides this beguiling sense of clarity that has to be heard to be appreciated although the problem with RedNet, I believe, is its inferior switching PSU. These units sound flat and dimensionless compared to my described setup above and so this clarity that RedNet brings almost sounds sterile and lifeless in comparison. Regardless, proponents of RedNet have suggested the problem with USB endpoints like the microRendu and sMS-200 is with USB. What I am hearing suggests USB is not the problem but perhaps the Dante technology by Audinate that RedNet utilizes has figured out how to eliminate the impact of these "not so good comms" in the network signal path. I have now been listening to this arrangement for much of the past week and so the initial emotions that can cloud one's judgement have settled down and my opinion remains the same as the first moment I heard it. To borrow from Chris Connaker, after all of this, I can unequivocally say that my audio system has never sounded better than it has now. For me, there is no going back.

 

For those interested in reproducing what I have done, first of all, you will need a music server with 2 ethernet ports. Current Mac Pros already have 2 ethernet ports. Mac Minis do not but I can verify that you can add a Thunderbolt ethernet port and it works very well. Many Windows PCs have 2 ethernet ports and if not, if you have a spare PCI or PCIE slot, you could inexpensively add one. Will a USB ethernet connection work? I don't see why not but I haven't tried it and I don't know how it will sound. I do know that you can't bridge a wi-fi connection and an ethernet connection.

 

So how do you bridge 2 ethernet ports? If you are on Linux, I can't help you but I'm sure it's possible. If you are on a Mac, here are the fairly simple instructions that I followed. Feel free to use DHCP but you are also free to assign a static IP:

 

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH18510?locale=en_US

 

For Windows, @jelt2359 has confirmed for me that the following directions below worked on his Windows 10 Nuc although he had to manually configure the bridge's DNS and IP addresses.

 

How to create a Network Bridge in Windows 10/8/7

 

Obviously, if you decide to try this, please report back your findings here. If there is consensus that this improvement is universal, perhaps Sonore and SOtM can be convinced to allow their units to be configured to be directly accessed more easily.

 

 

Another question if you connect the microRendu directly to the pc Ethernet port doesn't that essentially make the risk (from the how to link above) of an unprotected network?

 

Reference from the link : 'You should never create a bridge between an Internet connection and a network connection because it creates an unprotected link between your network and the Internet. This can make your network accessible to anyone on the Internet, which is not good from a security point of view'

 

Still puzzled by all the how to's but still want to try this.

[Theobetley]

Yes on all points.

 

As for manually assigning an IP address to your newly created bridge, the first thing you will want to know is the current IPv4 address and subnet of your machine and the following describes how you do this in Windows:

 

4 Ways to find your computer's IP address in Windows | Digital Citizen

 

Take note of your subnet as you will want to use the exact same subnet for your bridge. If you analyze your IPv4 address, you will see that it is broken up into 4 octets with each octet separated by a period. As you arbitrarily assign your bridge some static IP address, make sure the first three octets are identical to your current machine's IP address and select a different number (from 0-255) for your last octet. For example, if your DHCP router has assigned your machine an address of 192.168.1.25, you could arbitrarily select an IP address of 192.168.1.250 for your bridge. As you can see, it is only the last group of numbers that is different. If a conflict arises because that address has already been assigned to another device by your DHCP router, if you can figure out which device is currently occupying that address, rebooting that device should resolve the conflict. Alternatively, you could always select a different address and this would probably be the easiest thing to do.

 

Sounds like a hassle but you should only have to do this once. I believe you will find the payoff to be worthwhile.

 

For OSX, you can use DHCP for the bridge and everything works fine.

Remember I am not knowledgeable on this stuff so the questions may seem naïve but here goes

 

1) When I use my Sonicorbiter link (which as set up now in my system) I currently see an isp for the microRendu. Is the address I use when I hook up the micro Rendu directly to the pc separate Ethernet port?

 

2) or do connect the microRendu to the pc , let the pc assign a new isp, then insert that into the bridging command?

 

Right now I connect my pc to my router. Then I run a separate Ethernet cable from the router to the Rendu. Since I use a Vinnie Rossi DHT which by definition has triodes I turn the VR off when not listening. This turns off the Rendu. Then everytime I turn the VR on, load HQP the system goes through discovery of the network connection. Sometimes I have to power cycle the Rendu several times to successfully connect it.

 

3) So will this complicate my use of a bridging connection?

[Theobetley]

Glad to see you bringing up the topic of eliminating the Ethernet switch from your chain. What's old is new again. From a little over 3 years ago:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uh-oh-i-beat-my-sd-card-trick%3B-bypass-your-ethernet-switch-and-make-your-external-drives-sound-close-ram-disk-using-apple-thunderbolt-ethernet-adaptor-and-second-network-connection-18475/

 

" HQ Player is fussy about the NAA getting a DHCP-assigned IP address. So if I have the time to fidget with this again, that would be my goal."

 

This is my only concern about trying this (Romaz) tweak. So as a proof of concept (for me at least) cant I just connect my microRendu/Ethernet cabling directly to my pc's 2nd Ethernet port? I know I wont have access to the internet for microRendu updates and all but if this works I'll know that HQPlayer will find the microRendu. And if it does then taking the next step of bridging will be an easy decision. Since I do not fully understand networking I am concerned about going back to a router connection if this whole thing does not work for me.

[Theobetley]

Your microRendu needs to be assigned an IP address somehow which is why you would need connection to a router unless you had some other device on board that can provide this function. Now, OSX can serve as a DHCP server and I was able to access my sMS-200 directly this way without my router being in the picture and it sounded just as good when the music I had stored locally was played back but then I could only control it from the computer. Remote control from any other device like my iPad was no longer possible. Furthermore, there were stability issues as this connection would eventually "time out" and the system would need to be rebooted for it work again.

Ok so it won't work without a router. Thanks.

[Theobetley]

Your microRendu needs to be assigned an IP address somehow which is why you would need connection to a router unless you had some other device on board that can provide this function. Now, OSX can serve as a DHCP server and I was able to access my sMS-200 directly this way without my router being in the picture and it sounded just as good when the music I had stored locally was played back but then I could only control it from the computer. Remote control from any other device like my iPad was no longer possible. Furthermore, there were stability issues as this connection would eventually "time out" and the system would need to be rebooted for it work again.

Just so I can understand what I am doing. You said in your original post that when you hooked an Ethernet connection from your mac to the SmS 200 your Mac set up the address. How do I do that on my pc since does it does not have DHCP server capability. If so I think I am stuck. Also I did the ipconfig cmd and it shows an Ethernet adapter (ok no surprise) but then it shows a tunnel adapter. What is that? Also I did the cmd with and without my connection to the Rendu and its description on ipconfig changes so I know that it is referring to this link to the Rendu. But it shows no ip address that is identical or related to what I get on MySonicorbiter link. Totally confused on this.

[Theobetley]

 

For a PC you can download Tiny PXE Server from reboot.pro to use as DHCP server. As mentioned in my previous post, network bridging is unnecessary and the two NICs can be kept on different subnets. For example, the first NIC can be on the "general home network" subnet, e.g. 192.168.0.x, and the second NIC dedicated to connecting the microRendu can be on a different subnet, e.g 192.168.1.x. One way to achieve this is to assign a static IP address to the second NIC. Tiny PXE Server, when configured properly, will take care of assigning a proper IP address to the microRendu connected to the second NIC.

 

One catch with such a separate subnet configuration is that the microRendu config menus can only be accessed with a browser running on the HQ Player PC, and then only with the assigned IP address of the microRendu typed into the browser URL. Typing sonicorbiter.com into the URL box is unlikely to work.

Ok scan this a brilliant answer to my dilemma but I went to Tiny PXE server site and I can't figure out what to download and what to do. Is there any beginners notes or easy way to figure this out for a network newbie?

[Theobetley]

So I am a mess. Win10 did not want me to save two IP settings (direct and ethernet) with same gateway, and now where the f do I even have a chance to put the microRendu ip address in? All I get is my two NICs and a new ethernet 3, which I assume is the bridge? They simply ask for THEIR ip addresses.

Per some prior discussion when you hook up the 2nd Ethernet link from pc to Rendu you need to have dhcp capability to establish the network and assign an ip address(which Macs have) but most windows 10 home versions do not . So since I need this too I am in mad search for an app to do this. Per scan above Tiny PXE Server software does this but my look see at the web site left me baffled and confused.

[Theobetley]

I used these instructions for Windows 10. Works perfectly. Has screenshots and everything:

 

How to set up and manage a Network Bridge connection on Windows 10 | Windows Central

 

in short, before bridging, check your (outside internet adaptor)'s IP address, default gateway etc etc. Mine is connected to the internet via a USB adaptor "Ethernet 1", and my laptop's ethernet port "Ethernet 2" feeds an fmc setup which feeds my SMS-200. So I copy the details for "Ethernet 1".

 

After collecting this info, select both network connections, right click and bridge. Then right click the bridge (a new icon will appear for it) and to to IPv4 settings and update with the info for "Ethernet 1".

 

You should be all set!

 

let me recap your procedure to make sure I have it right. Currently I have my pc and my microRendu hooked up to my router. So with that in mind.

 

1) with current setup make a note of all properties of my 1 Ethernet connection

2) pull Ethernet connection of MicroRendu from router and insert into 2nd Ethernet port on pc

3) now through control panel list all network connections. 2 connections should show: the internet connection and the connection to the microRendiu. This is key because if this is true then the remaining steps for bridging are easy and simple for me to understand.

 

 

Do I have this right and I do not need a dhcp server app to establish the network to the microRendu?

[Theobetley]

Yes it will show two ethernet adaptors. The one you want to record down is the one that's connected to the internet. And yes in my setup the ip's are assigned by my router still- not my windows pc.

 

Fantastic will try later today. Really excited now. Finally simple, concise clarity. Thank you so much!

[Theobetley]

ok I'm bridged but now hqplayer cannot see my dac. Any comments/suggestions on this?

[Theobetley]

I think its a dell. Got it at Best Buy. Its windows 10 os. Could be a HP. I had been successfully running HQP via my router but now it is direct connected on a bridged Ethernet thingie.

 

Tried going back to Rendu connected to Router and I still cant music out of HQPlayer.

[Theobetley]

ok I'm bridged but now hqplayer cannot see my dac. Any comments/suggestions on this?

 

ok I have now unbridged the 2 Ethernet connections, put the Rendu connection back into the router and am now back in music. But I don't understand why it did not work for me. I tried rebooting the microRendu, rebooting the pc, pulling the power from the Rendu and nothing worked when it was bridged.

 

I ask Romaz, Jelt, and Jesus why this did not work. I am still anxious to try it again but not without some knowledgeable direction from you guys.

[Theobetley]

ok I have now unbridged the 2 Ethernet connections, put the Rendu connection back into the router and am now back in music. But I don't understand why it did not work for me. I tried rebooting the microRendu, rebooting the pc, pulling the power from the Rendu and nothing worked when it was bridged.

 

I ask Romaz, Jelt, and Jesus why this did not work. I am still anxious to try it again but not without some knowledgeable direction from you guys.

 

 

 

I have gone through this thread's posts and it looks like no one has successfully bridged 2 Ethernet nics on windows 10 and got the main pc to connect to a microRendu to play HQP.

Do I have that right, and if not tell me who I need to contact?

[Theobetley]

Ok I tried again, got closer but no cigar. This is what I did

 

1 plugged Ethernet cable from pc to microRendu

2 bridged 2 networks

3 set up promiscuous mode in each Ethernet connection

4 tried running hqplayer no go

5 rebooted hqplayer still would not play

6 rebooted microRendu still would not play

7 tried toggling the network switch in hqp (toolbar far right). Still no play.

 

one more thing when I tried to run a song hqplayer would show a little window in which a green bar cycled back and forth, then stopped and either would not play or seemed to stutter then stop.

 

 

In each instance above I could load files into Hqp but would not play, seemed to play but only stuttered then stopped.

 

i did get a weird windows warning from OS on network...do you want to enable access...or something like that. I said yes. I feel I am close. Any suggestions?

 

Did not try rebooting pc.

[Theobetley]

1) What are the 2 Ethernet adapters? Built-in and USB Ethernet adapter? Built-in and PCI-E card? Other?

 

2) If you open up a command prompt, what do you see when you issue the ipconfig command?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32637[/ATTACH]

 

3) Find out the IP address of your microRendu (by going to MySonicorbiter, for instance). Open up a command prompt and ping that IP address 10 times. What do you see?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32638[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]32639[/ATTACH]

1 built in pci - e card

 

2 I see something similar as you

 

did not try to ping the microRendu. Will try that.

[Theobetley]

I think if you're using built-in Ethernet and PCI-E NICs, you shouldn't (generally) have to do anything regarding forcing promiscuous mode. Maybe that's what's messing it up.

 

Open a command prompt and issue the netsh bridge show adapter command. What do you see? Here's what I see (on a bridge that's working with 3 NICs):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32641[/ATTACH]

ok when I tried again I could not manually reassign my ip4 etc. etc. addresses in the bridge so I could not get internet access to get sonicorbiter.com to show me my Rendu address. Interesting when I tried to put in my original Ethernet address of 255.255.255.0 it would only accept addesses between 1 and 233. Also after I bridged I noticed that windows OS try to and successfully set up a virtual network. Also when I tried the

netsh bridge show adapter command I get something very different from you ... a longer output set.

 

Really befuddled now.

[Theobetley]

Obviously I did not set up the bridge correctly. Not sure what happened because it is such an easy set of instructions to bridge 2 nics.

[Theobetley]

1) What are the 2 Ethernet adapters? Built-in and USB Ethernet adapter? Built-in and PCI-E card? Other?

 

2) If you open up a command prompt, what do you see when you issue the ipconfig command?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32637[/ATTACH]

 

3) Find out the IP address of your microRendu (by going to MySonicorbiter, for instance). Open up a command prompt and ping that IP address 10 times. What do you see?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32638[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]32639[/ATTACH]

When I ping my microRendu I get 1' and 2's rather than all 1's like you got. When I try to play a song in HQP I get the green bar oscillating back and forth...no play. I even went to control panel networking and tried to find an fix problems. Same result. Tried rebooting, same result

[Theobetley]

These are my pinging results

 

 

:\WINDOWS\system32>ping 10.0.0.114 -n 10

Pinging 10.0.0.114 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Reply from 10.0.0.114: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 10.0.0.114:

Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2ms, Average = 0ms

[Theobetley]

If you kill the bridge and have the microRendu hooked up to your normal network, do you get music instead of the oscillating green bar?

 

If you mean the microRendu connected to my router while my pc is connected to the router (this is my normal setup) yes I get music. If you mean no bridge but microRendu connected to my 2nd nic on the pc I get no music.

[Theobetley]

Btw my nic 1 is 100/1000 speed while my 2nd nic is 10/100. Is that an issue?

[Theobetley]

A big thanks to Clipper for his tireless assistance in getting me to the promised land on this tweak. Also thanks to Baconbrain for his suggestion to try wifi for the internet connector and then hooking up the Rendu to the mobo on my pc. A big thanks to Romaz for discovering this in the 1st place. Am evaluating now but initially soundstage is huge, bass is strong (may have to adjust my midbass, subwoofer levels down a bit). So far so good.

[Theobetley]

I should mention that I have worked on this for 3 weeks before I got it to work. Everything fell into place with wifi internet connection. No promiscuous mode needed, no putting in static ip4 addresses. It just worked. But as Baconbrain said after you hook it up make sure you reboot your pc.

[Theobetley]

I have had a day to listen to my system bridged. Sonically it was a mixed bag at first. Bass and soundstaging were overwhelming. Had to tame my midbass, subwoofer levels. Then it sounded a bit laid back and dry. So I converted from upsampling to no upsampling, better. Then upon a suggestion from Clipper I took out my FMC boxes and fiber cables, better yet. Then once again I took out my Baaske filter and it was Holy Crap is this good! So I recommend if you try this, adjust some of your parameters. There is reward at the end of that effort. Outstanding Sonics!