A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[ted_b]

Jplay has been a long time advocate for using a separate Ethernet card to connect their Audio PC and Control PC.

 

BTW, speaking of improving microRendu and SOtM sMS-200 performance - try putting Jcat isolator (Intona) and Wyred Recovery inseries after the microRendu (uR > Intona > Wyred Recovery, with uR powered by LPS-1). HUGE gain in dynamic contrast, soundstage dimensionality and clarity. My jaw literally hit the floor yesterday, when I first tried this combination (and that was after trying all sorts of PSUs on those gizmos, which also brought some improvement).

 

Adam,

I updated my Spring dac review today with exactly that: an Intona after the microRendu (no Wyred for now) changed how I listen to the Spring. I am now convinced that all PCM should be upsampled to 352k, not DSD (while still keeping DSD upsampled to the other side of the Spring dac, the DSD512 side). The Intona brought out great dynamics, reduced or eliminated a sort of digital edge to the upper midrange/lower treble (which made PCM sound glorious going through the PCM side) and quite a bit better in immediacy, or the feeling of loading the room.

 

I will ask the bridging/direct-to-uRendu questions once I have them all lined up.

[ted_b]

Hi Ted, I would very much appreciate your ears on this. Roy

 

Well, here is a poor representation of my system, from router to microRendu. I have the mR powered by an LPS-1 and my NAS FMC powered by an Anker battery. The remaining FMC is powered by a cheap Jameco lps. The Trendnet FMC at the mR is alos powered by a cheap wallwart, but will change that to my JPS-2 (which will be the LPS-1 energizer too).

 

Net/net, I want to try the direct-from-HQP server-to-mR approach and my HQP machine has 2 NICS; an ethernet mobo port (unused currently) and a Mellanox fiber card (connected to the fiber switch currently). Should I utilize the Mellanox to uRendu FMC and use another FMC for the wired ethernet port to fiber switch, or visa versa?

[ted_b]

So I am a mess. Win10 did not want me to save two IP settings (direct and ethernet) with same gateway, and now where the f do I even have a chance to put the microRendu ip address in? All I get is my two NICs and a new ethernet 3, which I assume is the bridge? They simply ask for THEIR ip addresses.

[ted_b]

Multihomed networking is difficult. Microsoft does not envision that you'd be doing this at home.

 

I'm wondering, with my Diablo fiber switch, whether this will even make a diff. Plus, when I move the NAA to my Windows pc (when doing multichannel with exaSound, which doesn't talk to the microRendu NAA) I assume I have other static IP issues? I think I will bail for now.

[ted_b]

I would be curious to hear if it does make a difference for you. Regarding your windows NAA, have you tried the PicoPSU 12V battery UPS or the OpenUPS2 (lithium)? No reason to think better than the LPS-1 just curious to know if worse...

 

I bailed. The good news is I was able to reset everything easily, so am more open to try again when better educated. I will try it when I get back from travel (starting tmrw). The Windows NAA (WS21012R1) is powered by a Hynes SR7 (adjustable from 12-19V) and the SSD is powered by a SOtM batterypack. The JCAT USB card is powered by a RedWine modded LPS. I only own one LPS-1 and it's with the uRendu. Being that I don't run both NAAs simultaneously I guess I could swap it in somewhere, but not sure if for the SSD or JCAT card.

[ted_b]

Ted, the bridge will use the existing dhcp server in your router. Just make sure the bridged device is running before booting the microRendu. Once it boots, most of the time you can assign an tcpip address in the DHCP server via the microRendu Mac address.

 

Sorry Larry, this is greek to me. I currently have a Mellanox fiber card that goes to a fiber switch, and a fiber cable from swith to uRendu. My second ethernet is emtpty.

 

What I tried to do was first connect the second ethernet (via FMC) to the fiber switch and capture both ip addresses (and that way not lose my RDC to the HQPlayer machine). Then moved uRendu-destined-fiber from switch to Mellanox. Then went to each properties, IPV4, and set static addresses that they had when not static. Did not then know what to do with Ethernet 3 (a green wireless box icon) that was created when I gave the bridge command. I tried many things. Nothing worked.

[ted_b]

I agree with you completely about the importance of the network and how everything in the network path seems to make a difference including not just the switch or router but also the internet modem. In my earlier post on this thread, I had indicated my desire for someone to build an audiophile-class modem/router/switch that incorporated low noise linear regulators, an audiophile-class clock and integrated optical isolators. Having experienced first hand how my modem/router was transformed when connected to my Paul Hynes SR7, no one has to convince me that this matters.

 

Stupid question: if all my music pieces (NAS, HQPlayer server, microRendu, router) are through my fiber switch currently (or directly connected someday ) does the router even enter into the sonic equation, or is its noise polluting the fiber switch anyway? The main reason I ask is that I have a Hynes SR7 (single rail) that is adjustable from around 9-10V to 19V sitting around and was thinking of using it on my Windows NAA (not always used, only during multichannel) freeing up my JS-2 for LPS-1 energizer work (and possibly other power) but maybe it is a better use on my AT&T Uverse Arris/Motorola NVG589 modem/router ??

[ted_b]

There is no need to enter ip address information into any device but the bridge adapter created by Windows.

 

OK, so when we do, do we make both ethernet 1 and 2 static, or do we tell the bridge to use DHCP on the internet-connected one? Then, after that, where do we tell (something) what to do with microRendu?

[ted_b]

Step 1:

 

You have the following..

 

Ethernet Adaptor 1 eg. USB Adaptor ...: Internet

 

Ethernet Adaptor 2 eg. Intel...: microRendu

 

type cmd into your windows search, and right click> open as administrator.command prompt opens, type ipconfig /all

 

Now record the following for Ethernet Adaptor 1, in my example, this description should say "USB Adaptor..." (it won't say 'internet', you'll need to look for the brand name of the adaptor):

 

IPv4 Address

Subnet Mask

Default Gateway

DNS Servers

 

Step 2:

Control-click on Ethernet 1 and Ethernet 2 and select 'bridge'. (virtual) Ethernet 3 adaptor magically appears: this is your Bridge.

 

Now right click Ethernet Adaptor 3 (the bridge), click 'properties', then go to Internet Protocol Version 4 at the bottom and click "properties" for that.

Click 'use the following IP address'.

Fill in the info from step 1.

Click OK

 

Step 3:

And you're done. No need to change settings for Ethernet 1 and 2. No need to do anything to microRendu. What you're basically telling Windows here is that your microRendu will be connecting to the Internet using the settings from Ethernet 1. Each device that connects to the internet, however, still can be assigned its own IP Address by the router or switch. It's just accessing that IP Address via Ethernet 1.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I did all the times I've tried (down to the copying in paint a screengrab from ipconfig /all and pasting it next to my routers list of ip addresses in my home too) and when the bridge is created I go to it and right click. However, it then seems to want me to decide which NIC I want to set properties for. Both are checked but one is highlighted (whichever one I want). I assume I choose the internet-connected one? You don't mention that step.

[ted_b]

The difference with the having the Paul Pang switch in the direct path is noticeably better with crisper clearer details and a bigger soundstage. It is as if another thin veil has been removed. With blind testing, on 4/4 tries, it was easy to know when the switch was in the chain and so the switch stays.

 

This is an interesting and somewhat surprising finding for me. At least in my system, this leakage current/ground loop issue just isn't that big of a deal.

 

So do you think if PP would create a simple inline (or one output switch) with the TCXO clock that it would be a seller? And did you try FMCs with the PP switch (i.e after the switch)?

[ted_b]

Larry, isn't the SotM ISO-cat6 he tested a passive?

[ted_b]

No surprise. I retired my FMCs over a year ago for the same reason. The EMOsystems isolation transformer sounds best here.

 

Larry can you explain how deep into fiber you were before ripping it out and doing EMO? I have either fiber nic or fmcs (to diablo fiber switch) on pc, NAS, router and microRendu. Thx

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[ted_b]

Theo, that is great. I have yet to be succesful, but am back from all my travels, etc and want to try again. To summarize my Win 10 AO HQPlayer machine:

Current setup

Mellanox fiber NIC to Diablo switch to Trendnet TFC-1000MGA FMC to microRendu

Mobo ethernet port empty

 

Planned setup

Mellanox NIC fiber direct to Trendnet TFC-1000MGA FMC to microRendu

Mobo ethernet port to Diablo switch (RJ45 port) for ethernet purposes (as router goes there too).

 

Not sure what I f'up but I do.

[ted_b]

Yeah, but the install of fiber to my music room (not just microRendu but NAS, etc are connected to Diablo and FMCs) was an sq bonanza, so in many ways maybe I;m already there.

 

Larry may be onto something when mentioning the Win10 AO (I have Win10 stripped down to bare necessities via AO).

[ted_b]

I suspect the benefits we hear are due to the elimination of unnecessary and redundant hardware of the switch, and it's power supply. A switch is just another computer with multiple NICs a processor, RAM and software. It makes sense that reducing the number of devices touching the music signal leads to improved SQ.

 

This does not mean there may not be specialized switch's optimized for music that will sound great.

 

So this thread has been sooo interesting (even though I have only lived vicariously so far) and makes so much sense. However, it flies in the face of the fiber-ing of my music room (adding a Diablo fiber switch and FMCs, where needed, for my ATT modem/router, Synology NAS, and microRrendu, adding a fiber NIC for my HQP Win10 server). To do what Romaz, and specifically Larry and Shoom, are talking about requires me to "rip it all out", although that process would not be that difficult as the ethernet cables are all still laying there.

 

My project to fiberize my music room seemed to really lower the noise floor of my already high end setup. But yet I acknowledge that going direct does indeed remove hardware and processes, and that maybe copper direct is sonically better than fiber-switched. I wish it were more straight-forward, as I've tried it (only going direct to uRendu) a couple times and gotten nowhere. And afterward justified my failure with "why fix what ain't broken".

 

Full non-switch setup success does have a little downside in my setup, in that it dedicates the NAS to my HQP machine (which currently is no big deal). I may PM Shoom to ask what he did in more detail, and will first temporarily turn off AO, as per Larry's recommendation.

[ted_b]

So, once I got the go ahead from AudioPhil (beta 2.2b4 is fine with bridging) I tried bridging again. I connected my mobo copper ethernet to either the router directly or the rj45 port in the Diablo (didn't matter) and connected the Mellanox fiber NIC directly to the miroRendu's FMC. Did the bridge thing. Sonicorbiter says the microRendu is 168.192.1.193 so I ping'd it from the HQP machine and it sees it. So does the browser, of course (sees my sonicorbiter/Rendu pages). But HQPlayer does not. Under no circumstances (rebooting every known device) could I get HQPlayer to see the NAA (dac connected to the microRendu). But once I swapped everything back to "normal' I was good to go. Ideas?

[ted_b]

So I have a wireless dongle on Amazon PRime order (arrives Saturday). I also just today tried bridging by leaving the Mellanox fiber nic as my internet connection (easier to do as it plays that role normally)) and hooked up a copper Cat6a direct from my mobo ethernet to the uRendu, thus removing a fiber/fmc/copper from Diablo to my uRendu. I even added a USB to ethernet adapter (no cable attached) as a third bridged component. Same results; can ping the uRendu IP address but HQplayer doesn't see it. Stay tuned.

[ted_b]

I will wait to post until tmrw (when the wifi dongle arrives) but I am afraid I am doing something basically wrong.

 

Regardless, in the long run I have the following requirements:

* access to my Synology NAS from BOTH the HQP server (currently sharing the Diablo fiber switch via Mellanox NIC) and my home office desktop (currently direct to router via good ole copper)

* I play both 2channel music (via uRendu and Holo dac, for example) and multichannel (when I then swap FMC'd ethernet over to my small Windows WS2012 NAA for the exaSound, being that it is allergic to the uRendu). In fact, I sometimes use the Windows NAA for 2 channel if testing drivers, etc.

* all of the above are headless so I use (currently) Windows RDC to access them (either on my home office desktop or on my ipads).

 

So, I am open to suggestions to accomplish these three fundamentals with either bridging or frankly doing private networks (like I did when doing JPlay back in the day), either way direct from HQP machine. I have multiple ethernet ports (now that I found my USB to ethernet adapter, that joins my Mellanox fiber NIC and mobo ethernet; I don't plan on using the wifi dongle except to somehow fake HQPlayer into seeing my NAA as per Clipper, etc).

 

If I were to do private networks I'd likely need to very strict picture-based instructions (via PM, no need to hijack here). Thanks. I really want to report back the sq differences, but kinda frustrated right now.

[ted_b]

Ted, I totally get the frustration. Your requirements are almost identical to mine except that I do not use a microrendu (yet) and I dont do multichannel. Therefore I cannot speak to those requirements but I do know that I got this bridged network working with HQP/Roon PC + NAA PC. I will send you a PM. Perhaps we can plan to speak on phone to troubleshoot.

 

Thanks, responded. BTW, I am open to any creative solution for any of these issues, including moving some of my oft-used 2 channel music onto the home office desktop (JRiver and 2 channel only), relegating my NAS for direct if needed. My home office desktop is purely either background music, testing or breaking in new DACs. Not a big deal. My NAS, however, is chock full of music (about 20TB) the largest being all the large-file multichannel music I have from being part of the NativeDSD team. I cannot envision putting 20TB on a local drive, but I've been wrong before.

[ted_b]

delete.....read something incorrectly and therefore responded incorrectly.

[ted_b]

Larry,

do you not use HQPlayer? I found CUDA offloading to be invaluable with things like multichannel upsampling.

[ted_b]

Ted, yes I use HQplayer 2 channel and upsample everything to dsd512. With a 6700k I have no use for a Nvidia card.

 

Ah true, for 2 channel.

 

Question: can my NVidia card be bypassed for monitor use (in case I need to do bios stuff I'd plug into mobo connector) and still be active for HQP Cuda support? Guess this is a better question for Jussi, but you are up there in my mind.

[ted_b]

Larry,

I have a Platinum class Seasonic in my HQP server build, and an SSD powered by an iFi iUSB power supply (old iFi iUSB used simply as ps).  Are you saying it might be worth swapping out my Platinum ps for a $150 Titanium one, and then using a Red drive?  With this config, is it worth spending $ on a decent SATA cable for the Red drive?

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

 Using the m.2 ngff to Sata connection card was definitely an upgrade with tighter bass and greatly increased top end extension.

I'm sorry, but what is that, and where does it live, and what does it accomplish?  Are you saying your Red drive was an M.2? 

[ted_b]

Sorry for the hijack but are you saying you have OS and music on same 3.5" drive and it's better than separately powered SSD and NAS music?  You are direct, right (i.e no NAA)?  I wonder if NAA reduces these changes (like NAS vs local HDD)