New Amarra 4

[DancingSea]

Ok, had a chance for a good listening session on this breezy, sublime Maui evening.  I did all of copy_of_a's  A+ settings.  Did all of his prequorsor2 settings, though followed his advice to make it more Amarra like by putting saturation at 12.  Couldn't get the dither plugin to work.  The Saturation Knob didn't work as well.  Settled on the Nick Crow Lab Tube Driver which I enabled and left the settings as they came, mostly because even if I read the manual, I don't know enough about sound to know what most of the knobs do sound wise.

 

The other twist is that today arrived the iFi Nano iUSB 3.0 USB reclocker, purifier, etc.  Was on sale for $169.  The PS Audio LANRover is arriving Thursday for audition.

 

Anyway, all of copy_of_a's settings, the tube driver, and the iFi Nano resulted in a positively sublime listening experience with Diana Krall's "Live In Paris".  There is not much more I can ask out audio than what I heard tonight.  Or at least I don't know enough to ask any more.

 

The iFi smoothed out the digital harshness, yet remained lively with a terrific soundstage - a smidge bright but not a problem.  This combined with the copy_of_a revelations made A+ sound so lovely, unlike I've ever heard it.

 

The LANRover is supposed to be even more analog/ tube like.  So we shall see.

 

Thanks again to copy_of_a, ddalmas and everyone else for this very interesting exploration.  Amarra 4 Luxe still sounds great.  But the difference now is negligible to my ears.  Only wish I leapt on prequorsor2 when copy_of_a first shared the half price deal.

[DancingSea]

9 hours ago, tipunch said:

Hello DancingSea,

Every years I'm sailing in the Caribbean... One day I shall come until Maui it is certain...

Can you please share your best settings too?

A simple screenshot is already good...

Thank you a lot for all your reports and have a nice weather ;-)

 

 

 

You are always welcome on Maui!  Its such a long ocean journey to get here, and the seas way more serious than the Caribbean, that sailing is not particularly popular on Maui.  We are the windsurf/ kite surf/ surfing capital of the universe, stand up paddle, and to a much lesser extent sea kayaking along the shore.  Our channels have extremely strong currents, making open ocean activities dangerous - the very conditions that make surfing so great.  Most are limited to whale watching on large powered boats, though a few hard core sailers make it here.  Of course along the shore there's snorkel trips, etc.

 

As for the settings, I did the exact A+/ preqursor2 copy_of_a settings.  Only I boosted the prequorsor2 saturation to 12 (per his suggestion to make it like Amarra).  I left the Nick Crow Lab Tube Driver on its factory settings, though may begin to play with it, as well as try some of the other tube plugins.  

 

I do feel the iFi Nano iUSB 3.0 played a big part in my positive experience.  My belief is that its reclocking, regenerating, and purifying of the usb signal made the effects of prequorsor2 and the tube driver more apparent.  The iFi removed the digital harshness that I find so offensive and was trying to fruitlessly solve via music players like A4 and A+.  I'm left to conclude that its a waste of time to try and achieve a more analog type sound out of computer without one the better USB treatment devices like the Wyred 4 Sound RUR, ISO Regan, iFi Nano/ Micro, or the PS Audio LANRover.

 

I will continue to listen to prequorsor2 until my trial runs out in a week.  If last night's experience continue's, I will gladly pay for prequorsor2 and debate whether or not to upgrade to A4 Luxe from A4.  Luxe, at least for my purposes, only adds the remote and the EQ with its presets and ability to make your own adjustments in real time.  The Luxe sounds is the same as A4.

 

Thanks to copy_of_a parting of the red sea, I can see the promised land with A+, something I never thought I'd say.  I'll still use A4 of course because it sounds so great.  But A+ is just so much less stress and effort!

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, Vinbob said:

 

Just to provide an update - have not heard back from Ralph on getting on the beta program - I had also called and left them a message last week. Any other ideas/suggestions...?

 

I'd keep calling them.  Ralph is a good dude.  He must be behind on his email correspondences.  There are times when I write that I get a very swift response.  And other times, no response at all.  I suggest that your correspondence include something about buying a product other than Luxe, something that they could possibly make money on.  

 

There was a time some months ago that he put many of us on the beta test program - I'm guessing they don't need any more testers.  As I mentioned, Luxe and A4 sound the same.  Luxe just has a few more features like the remote, and the EQ.  Both have an immature library management system.  On the positive, both are quite stable.

[DancingSea]

3 minutes ago, Vinbob said:

 

Much appreciated - I'll try calling them again. The other thing I need with the Luxe version, is to be able to play DSD without the PCM conversion which I believe the current Amarra 4 version does not do. The other issue with A4 is that it doesn't support .ISO files like A+ does, so I will have to break up the files into individual files, but that is a blessing in disguise as you can then set the metadata for those files for artwork, track info. etc. :-) 

 

Yes, that's true.  I haven't got into DSD so much yet, so for me its just the remote and EQ.  Best of luck with Sir Ralph.

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

:-)

I'm glad all the hussle went fairly well and you had a satisfying listening experience!

 

I would say $69,- for preQursore2 is a very fair price.
PSP has a long track record in designing digital plugins that sound like real analog hardware.
And I feel you can hear the years of experience - everything sounds really "natural" and mature (unless you intentionally exaggerate the settings).
Using these plugins is a bit (a bit!) like switching my DAC from the solid state output stage to the tube stage - but the precission and punch of deep bass gets preserved (the tube stage of my DAC makes the bass somewhat bolder but also somewhat blurry).
There's one setting you should evaluate: SAT (output of preQursor2).
SAT applies some limiting. It's a special way of limiting and sounds really great.
However, this setting does not only alter the sonic character of the presentation, it also slightly alters the overall dynamics. SAT on is closer to Amarra4-sound (IMHO), though.
Up to you ...

 

 

Cool.  What is "limiting" in sonic terms?  I don't know much about the technical side of audio.  I'm more of the "me like", "me no like" camp. Thx

[DancingSea]

46 minutes ago, Vinbob said:

Thanks - just tried calling and no one there to take my call again. Followed up with another e-mail - fingers crossed although if I can't get something soon and the date extends which looks like it will do, then I may just upgrade my A+ and call it a day - as much as I would like to try the new Amarra Luxe 4... 

 

The only thing I can say is that the beta test license was set to expire 6/30.  And now its 8/31.  How that correlates to a release date, I don't know.  And given the cost of most of our sound systems, its not unreasonable to own both A4 Luxe and A+ 3.  I own A4, Amarra HiFi, Fidelia, Bit Perfect, and A+ 2.8.  I tried A+ 3 but didn't find any sonic improvement, just mainly MQA, which I don't give a hoot about.  Tidal has always rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.

[DancingSea]

I did some comparative listening last night between Amarra 4 Luxe and the aforementioned adjusted A+.  Both are great.  I still love the Amarra 4 sound.  I can't quite put my finger on it, it just feels more "right" and cohesive - and handles rock music, or more uptempo music better.  I'll likely end up with both, but if I had to pick one sound, it would still be Amarra 4.  However, for me, the only sane way to use A4 is as a player, with small batch scans for the evening's selections, that are then cleared for each session.  Like a few CD's worth.

 

I have tested the whole iTunes library scan, as well as larger "add to library" scans which often yield uneven results.  Wanted to listen to Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth (Lyle is a long time favorite, up there with Grateful Dead, Mark Knopfler, Van Morrison, and Sting).  Opened the album, only one track was there.  The other tracks had be tossed into "various artists".  A rescan put them all back in the right place.  A4 non Luxe does this same sort of stuff.  Its just an unnecessary chore to deal with.

 

But the Idiot Savant still got sonic game, whatcha gonna do?

[DancingSea]

2 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

hi my friend...you are right ,but  this confirms that the idiot savant still remains an idiot ! what makes me go into rage is that is like to give a gorgeous cake to an hen! (in italy we also say: to an ass)and above all a payed hen...i apologize but everytime i hear such things i can't stand to be polemical!!

ciaociao

 

I am a native english speaker.  I have never heard the word "polemical", had to look it up.  It is indeed an applicable word, so thanks for expanding my vocabulary.

 

I also got some periodic pops and zaps with A+, perhaps its the plugin combo?  Payed hens are indeed the worst.  

[DancingSea]

Sonic Studios responded to my bug report and inquiry.  The audio engineer confirmed that A4 is a new and improved sound engine vs A3, and that they continue to improve the new engine.  Might make sense for their marketing team to put "new and improved sound engine" somewhere on their A4 webpage???

 

The engineer also suggested trying "Launch Browser" mode.  On the app A4 window (at least in Luxe, not sure if its in regular A4), in the "window" menu choice (where "file" would normally be), in the drop down menu is a choice to "Launch Browser".  He said it works best in Chrome, so I reset my default browser to Chrome.

 

He suggested that it sounds better in this Launch Browser mode than in the app mode.  I gave it a try.  It does sound better.  Really, really, really good.  Its a work in progress - and aren't we all - but Launch Browser mode shows a lot of promise, can have multiple tabs, etc.  Be forewarned, launching in Browser mode clears the entire library at this point - which is ok for me as I load small batches anyway.  They are working on options for this.

 

Just when the savant is down, it pulls another rabbit out of that magic hat.  It sounds phenomenal, best SQ in class.

[DancingSea]

Not sure.  A4 always asked to allow network connections upon launch.  I never stopped to think what that might mean...

[DancingSea]

I asked Sonic Studios about it.  They said the main reason for the network connections is for the new luxe remote app.

[DancingSea]

Interesting.  They released a quick beta last night and said release was very soon.  The beta was 25% larger than the many previous betas.

 

As for the suggested "launch browser" mode that's sounds better than app mode: As mentioned, make Chrome your default browser.

 

When Amarra 4 Luxe is initially launched upon install, I find the "launch browser" option is not listed in the "window" drop down menu.  Just quit A4L, and relaunch.  Then the "launch browser" option appears. Select it.  Quit again.  And relaunch.  Then it will launch into Chrome.

 

I suggest testing the browser option with a small batch of test tracks.  I've not been able to get it to save the library, even though its supposed to, but the "save" option was greyed out for me.  Hopefully they've solved that on the official release!  Just don't want someone to take hours to load in their entire library into browser mode only to have A4 not save it.

 

Very interested to hear what our esteemed panel thinks of the browser based SQ!

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, Umetaro said:

I installed Amarra 4 Luxe (Mac) and tried it for an hour.  I found the sound gorgeous!  However, there are some issues as follows.

- For some albums, the track is sorted in a reverse order.  For example, Adele Live at the Royal Albert Hall starts with Rolling in the deep instead of Hometown Glory.

- It takes a lot of time to browse iOS remote

Hope these are fixed with the next update.

 

This is just the beginning of your library troubles.  A mere tip of the iceberg.

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, foodfiend said:

I think most of us here are in the same position. We love the sound quality, but loathe many other bits, including the library management.

 

Yes, this sums up our lengthy thread.  We've ranged from malcontent over the library pitfalls, to thoughtful zen like work arounds, to a full on mutiny to attempt to massage Audirvana into sounding like Amarra.

 

It is what is.  The library management situation is unlikely to be solved anytime soon, or at all.   That's said will all due respect to Sonic Studios and their SQ prowess.... 

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, mneveux said:

This already kind of exists. Amarra sQ+ runs as the sound engine for iTunes or any other audio you use on your computer. You get the fantastic Amarra sound with the excellent library management of iTunes and to me...it sounds better than A4.

 

Next time it goes on sale, I'll buy it.  It is a different audio engine than A4 though....

[DancingSea]

16 hours ago, quark said:

So luxe is released and unsurprisingly is unfinished "a work in progress"

 As I am heavily dependent on the APP for ease of use I unnecessarily got myself excited, but it just keeps making Luxe crash. 

 Why can't they make it easy to drag tracks in playlists into a different order, surely that's a basic requirement. Creating playlists on the iOS App and then being able to manipulate them by dragging the tracks into different positions for a desired playing order should be a basic functions surely. Please make it happen Sonic Studio, I've been an advocate  and staunch supporter of yours for many years. 

 

 

Is the A+ arrangement more functional for your disability?  With the preQursor2 plugin - which someone just posted can be had for $51 when you open a free account on the link they provided - it sounds very good.  Also copy_of_a's A+ settings help as well.  

 

I tried to temper your anticipation for Luxe, its library management is only minimally better than A4.

[DancingSea]

19 hours ago, Lio_B said:

I bought this plugin yesturday, the good news, it is taxe Free, it cost me 53€ while on the official site it is 93€ with taxes.

on the other hand, they are out of stock, probably forum members have emptied the stock :-)

I'm still waitting my serial number...

 

How do they go out of stock for a digital, downloadable item?

[DancingSea]

4 hours ago, tipunch said:

YEEEESSSSS!!!!

I finally managed to copy the famous sound of Amarra 4 with 2 plugins:

PSP PreQursor 2: just preamp on +12

and Wave TubeSaturator2: just saturation on 0

 

Put the settings as on the image:

 

I had tried min 30 plugins...

 

Good work, will check it out...

[DancingSea]

Just now, tipunch said:

Hello,

And for info I bought Wave TubeSaturator2 for 71$ here (It is just necessary to open an free account).

 

Which version of A+ are you guys using?  I have 2.6.8.  After installing the TubeSaturators and activating them in the AU settings, A+ refused to play, would quit after one second.  Ever since, A+ won't play at all with even the AU settings activated, even if I don't select a plugin!  I deleted A+ and reinstalled, same thing.  Ugh.

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, tipunch said:

Hello DancingSea,

Audirvana 2.6.3 and you can download it here...

or Audirvana 2.6.4 is same as 2.6.3 here

Those versions are for me very good balanced...

The versions later give me only problems for my config...

Best regards

 

Unfortunately, same issue.  Think its best I truck on over to A+ land for this one.  Thx

[DancingSea]

37 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

In your user folder go to ~/library/Application Support/Audirvana.

Trash all files contained within this folder.

 

In your user folder go to ~/library/Preferences.

Trash this file: com.audirvana.Audirvana-Plus.plist

 

Afterwards you have to setup A+ again (preferences, library, playlists, plugins etc.) ... but it'll work again.

 

 

 

Thanks, this did indeed work.  It did negate my few hours old Wave Arts Tube Saturator2 trial, send them an email, hopefully they'll let me try again.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, tipunch said:

DancingSea,

Those settings with Equalisation on with bass +1db (on TubeSaturator2) is the exactely same sound of Amarra4...

Please try it!!!

 

Yes, very excited to try.  Need Wave Arts to send me another trial license, hopefully they will soon.  I'll call them on Monday....

[DancingSea]

4 hours ago, ddalmas said:

another  good time to state how it is possible to loose users!!! Almost everyone who tries Amarra 4 or luxe decide to pass to other softwares!Me in the shoes of SS staff will pass every day and night to try to solve these shaming bugs...and ,a least i will do something to say to my users that i am hardly working on the software to resolve...but from SS...the silence! maybe they have a so huge number of users that going to loose a great % of them is not a problem of theirs!!!

 

It must be an economic issue.  Amarra has been in this buggy state for many years.  It must not be worth it to Sonic Studios to devote R&D resources to fix these known library issues - Ralph said as much in his recent post here.  Their focus appears to be sound, and they got that part right.

 

For me, Luxe has been relatively stable when I use my "player only" approach, only loading in the evenings selections in small batches.  As written long ago, I use iTunes for library management, drag several CD's into a folder on my desktop, and import only those few CD's (10 or so) into Luxe.  Yes ddalmas, it ought not be necessary!  But c'est la vie........

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, ddalmas said:

Hi foodfiend ...i believe that a very good alternative remains A+ !already without audio units! but when you add audio units well the things become seriously alternative to A4 0r luxe! i have reached a very good sound with some plugins ,a sound that is very close to A4, if not better, but above all FREEDOM is a great concept and A+ leaves freedom to choose by yourself! A4 stays to a good tyranny as A+ stays to a nice democracy...what would you choose for your life my friend? Me i am .i have been ,and i always wanna be  a free man!

ciaociao

 

Last night I listened to Luxe in browser mode, it sounded phenomenal - and with no bugs.  I've been following along with the A+ recipes, and thus far, haven't found a sound that compares to Luxe browser mode.  I continue to try and get a trial license reinstated for Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2 - have called and emailed them with no response.  For me, A+ has an underlying aggressiveness to their core sound, one that hopefully Tube Saturator 2 can cure.  The PSP Prequorsor2 helped, but didn't quite get there for me.

 

R&D costs money.  A company must decide when the costs out weight their return.  Sonic Studios is a sound production company, clearly library management is not their forte.  Its their decision to stop R&D where they like, and their right.  We can buy or not buy, that's our right.

 

I recently auditioned the PS Audio LANRover USB regenerator.  It too has phenomenal sound.  But was very buggy, would only really play with iTunes/BitPerfect.  Was flaky with A+, and refused to play Amarra or Fidelia.  It also felt like PS Audio - which is a great company, I have their Stellar Gain Cell DAC & S300 power amp - but it seems they simply stopped the R&D process on the LANRover.  Even though their beta testers had lots of problems.

 

These small companies have to decide where to place their resources.  With both PS Audio's LANRover, and Amarra 4 Luxe, we can assume their meal ticket comes from other products, and that's where their resources are devoted.  My PS Audio DAC & Amp perform flawlessly and sound terrific - that's their forte.  I speculate Sonic Studio's primary professional sound offerings perform at a similar level - that's where they make their money.

 

In the spirit of looking at the glass half full, I'm so pleased with the Luxe sound, and the price is very affordable considering the source of the sound engine.  The library management will *never* be where we'd like it to be.  But we are not held hostage, no one is forcing us to buy anything.  The choice is our own.

[DancingSea]

Just got off the phone with Bill Gardner, the developer/ programmer of the Wave Arts Tube Saturator 2 (and Vintage) for A+.  Very nice guy.  He renewed my trial license.  He said, to my understanding, that the Tube Saturator 2 has a very similar core sound to the Vintage free version.  The paid version is way more cpu efficient, and has more customization options.  Presumably, being more cpu efficient will free up juice for A+ itself.

 

I'm eager to give it a try tonight.  I'll likely pay the Luxe upgrade fee anyway, as browser mode sounds too good.  For me, it has been more stable than either A3 or Amarra HiFi....