SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[One and a half]

For us computer semi-literates, can another short 'how-to' guide be done to describe this?

 

Try this to find ip address on osx

 

4 Ways to Find Your IP Address on a Mac - wikiHow

 

Most NIC these days are clever enough to work out the flow of data without a crossover cable. Problem is there's no label on the RJ45 to tell you how clever it is

[One and a half]

The ripper BD machine needs to have a fixed IP address. The main reason is to use the sacd.cmd file or the IOS2DSD application so that the same address can be entered all the time the same and not having to search for the new IP address the router decides to allocate. Discussion ends.

[One and a half]

I would debate that slightly. Using a PC as my host for iso2dsd, connecting to my Oppo over my network, I just need to know what my Oppo IP address is, which then gets keyed into iso2dsd as the first step in the extraction process. No static IP necessary, although it can make things simpler. I just don't bother.

 

Sure. This thread concerns itself not only with Oppo but Pioneer and Cambridge Audio players that can rip SACD. I know that after three cycles of power on/off, the Cambridge Audio CXU changes the IP address it receives from the router. Therefore the expected IP address is not available in the ripper application, so this requires the player to be hooked up to a TV and the IP found, and the ripper app adjusted to read the new IP address. If you wish to proceed with this process and p$ss around by doing so, then by all means enjoy. Thus the recommendation of a fixed IP address for the player stands.

[One and a half]

Use your smartphone and a simple net analyzer app to discover. I do agree that fixed ip is safest, but your premise that you need to hook the player back up to a TV is incorrect.

 

And your response sounded a little snarky to me. Is that necessary?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Net analyser or smartphone to discover IP? Wow. I'll use a TV, it works, the LCD (the mathematical term).

[One and a half]

I just bought a Pio Elite BDP-80FD off the bay. Ideally I would like to do this without a router. If I don't need my monitor, that will be cool too. I get it delivered most likely Monday. I already have an Oppo 83se that plays burned SACDs, and I didn't want to spend the 400-500$ on another Oppo at this point, I got the 80FD for $150 shipped. Starting my plan of attack before it arrives in about five days. Hopefully I don't have the problem that others have had with this player not recognizing the SACD layer of dual layer discs. I have around 100 SACDs to rip, nearly all multichannel.

 

On delivery of the player, you will need to connect the player's HDMI output to a TV or your monitor to set both the IP address and subnet mask as a minimum if you don't want to use a router.

 

If the computer you use has the unused Ethernet port, connect the player with just an Ethernet cable, no router required. Set the IP address of the computer and the player something like this:

 

Player

IP : 192.168.0.10

Subnet : 255.255.255.0

 

Computer

IP : 192.168.0.11

Subnet : 255.255.255.0

 

Use ping from Terminal (OSX) or cmd (Win) from the computer to the player. This would be :

 

ping 192.168.0.10

 

Chances are the computer's Ethernet NIC is self configuring that you don't need an Ethernet crossover cable. The replies should be less than 5ms. The ISO2DSD should work from then on and depends on what OS you work with requires a different path and the Pioneer devices may require a slightly different sacd.cmd file.

 

Sometimes the gateway needs to be set as well, in this case, at the player side, use the same IP as the player, and same number for the gateway at the computer side.

[One and a half]

Further to post #570, once the player is working from the computer, the monitor or TV can be disconnected, but of course keep the Ethernet cable connected.

[One and a half]

Addition info of my problem:

 

The tray is open with the files that contain in USB stick from thread #26

But can't open the tray with sacd_extract_160 from thread #71

 

Did you verify that the Pioneer MCS-434 complies with the chipsets as nominated in the first post?

[One and a half]

 

The MCS-434 was released in same period with BDP-160, and I tested the player's tray is open when I plugged USB that contain those script.

 

!checklist!

 

- Autoscript folder in root of usb stick containing

Autoscript

Autoscript.TSS

SACD_Extract ?

 

- USB Stick formatted to FAT32, small USB like 8GB or less ?

- Partitioned properly with Bootice?

 

The error : File exists tell you something, sounds like a duplicate file or in the wrong location.

[One and a half]

Thanks for help, I'll try it.

 

 

Checked all files and folders are correctly located.

I found that sacd_extract.exe force close when I run the sacd.cmd, isn't it run on Win10 64bit?

 

Try using ISO2DSD? it's automated and easy excpet for the java, which delays the install somewhat.

 

Also check this post for some more clues about partitioning. Obvious question you are ripping an SACD? Since the not found message is also no SACD in the tray.

 

Win 10 64bit is OK.

[One and a half]

First, a big thanks to those who have made ripping SACDs so straightforward - very much appreciated.

 

I am having a problem with playback on my system, namely loud pops / clicks between tracks and I am wondering if anyone can help me?

 

I've ripped a number of SACDs to .iso with my my Oppo 103, converted them to .dsf files using iso2dsd, tagged them and then converted to DoP (FLAC) using dbPoweramp (176khz). So far, so good I believe.

 

The files are held on a NAS and streamed to a Squeezebox Touch (v7.7.2) via ethernet cable and with the EDO 192khz / USB plugin. They are then passed to my DAC (ifi iDAC2) via USB. The iDAC is showing them as DSD files and they play fine apart from the annoyingly loud pops between tracks and some much quieter ones when I move between tracks. No problems noted playing PCM files.

 

If anyone has any suggestions, they'd be gratefully received!

 

Several posts on the net as listed:

 

JRiver

 

Naim (not even DSD)

 

CA Clicks

 

It depends on the DAC too as to where the zero crossing starts and how well it suppresses the click or pop. The DSF file may not start cleanly at zero is the main problem. Depends which version of SACD_EXTRACT you use as well, search this thread for instances mentioning this file and clicks. I find that Jriver has a better tolerance of the click than HQPlayer when it's upsampling to DSD256.

 

It is possible to remove the click by automatically applying a DC offset. This requires the DSF to be converted to PCM, the fix applied and converted back to DSF as automated by AUI-Converter-RD. I have a dual Xeon PC with 16 cores something, and it takes about 20-30 minutes to apply the clickless application for an album. It works BTW but the software costs USD250.00.

 

The click is annoying, once you hear it, it's always there and you wait for it to happen, and the enjoyment of the music tanks. In this case USD250 is well spent, unless there's something esle out there that can do the job. I have heard that conversion to dff, then to dsf might work, but I found the metadata was fouled up and spent more fixing that.

[One and a half]

Why would you convert DSD to PCM and then back to DSD? At that point, you've converted the file twice so it would make more sense (IMHO) to just leave it in PCM format rather than converting back to DSD.

 

Unless you have a powerful pro editing machine, any DSD editing for the rank amateurs like us that fill these pages, any processing that needs to be applied to a file, such as echo, fade ins, outs, eq and so on involves conversion to PCM. The reason to convert the file back to DSD is that the filtering of DSD can be applied ultrasonically out of the way of the audio band, whereas with PCM, there will be artefacts of the filtering in place, which, in practice is not a refined art that works effectively.

 

As many DAC manufacturers have adopted, the incoming file is converted to DSD internally some 2x, often higher rates then easier low pass filters applied. So in one form or another, you may as well keep the file DSD as is. Unless of course you have a PCM only DAC like BADA, or Schitt (anything norse legend name), where software apps like Jriver, HQplayer, Audirvana + can perform the conversion anyway with better precision than a hardware filter.

[One and a half]

I'm interested in looking into modifying sacd_extract such that it supports more players. Would https://github.com/sacd-ripper/sacd-ripper be the place to do it and submit changes?

There would be willing participants right here for sure but it's preferable for the right channels. Which players would you concentrate on , Sony, fix up the Pioneer?

[One and a half]

I can confirm the process works well with Cambridge CXU.

Telnet not necessary (unless some sort of debugging is required).

Speed: 2,5MB sec

 

This is fabulous!

 

Question on iso2dsd: what exactly is the tickbock 'convert DST to DSD' for? Is this a required setting?

 

And just out of interest: which is the recommended MBR setting for the USB stick in Bootice?

 

Thanks!

Can clear the dst setting, it's for compressed data. I haven't come across a dst SACD disc as yet..

[One and a half]

This is weird. Almost all SACDs use DST compression. If you have a SACD with both 2ch and mch versions, you will see that the 2ch part, once you tick the DST conversion, is almost as large as the whole ISO. The mch part can literally "explode". Example, a 3Gb ISO will often expand to a ~3Gb 2ch mix and a ~7.5Gb 5.1 mix. The two sections are usually about 1.2-1.5Gb and 1.5-1.8Gb compressed, respectively. The actual numbers may be slightly off because I am going from memory (not at home at the moment).

 

The reason for the different compression ratios is that most 2ch mixes are edited unchanged, whereas the mch are first passed through a filter to remove the highest frequencies to improve the compression ratio, which means that the mch mix has individual tracks of possibly slightly lower quality. With larger images, sometimes BOTH are filtered with the mch mix filtered in a heavier way.

 

You can keep DST compression in the Philips format, not in the SONY format (IIRC).

 

If you keep the DST compression, your player will expand it in real time. If you have a single computer setup this may impact sound quality, because DST expansion is a heavy process (SACD players have hardware that do that, but this process can keep a single core of a modern intel chip occupied) and thus there may be more electrics noise in the audio chain (in this case filters on the USB connection and on the power supply will mitigate).

 

Roberto

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

This is very interesting. I could reply with a smart ass answer, but I haven't come across a DST disc, wouldn't know one if I fell over it, and I don't have any mch SACD, all are 2CH. The DST option is cleared, and the ISO for a typical album is 1.5 to 4GB depending on how much time there is. 1.5 for 30 minutes something, the 4GB is over an hour.

 

The main reason for clearing the DST function is for the starting declick edits (DC offset) is easier if there is no DST. Otherwise it's more hours for processing .... (snore).

[One and a half]

I tried to convert them with XLD and DB power amp but they couldn't open the files. Maybe I did something wrong or the mac version of these programs can't convert dsd to pcm. I guess I'll try the firmware. Thanks

 

dbpoweramp requires the DSD plugin to work, it's not delivered as standard. The DSD codec only works for Windows XP and higher, dbpoweramp R12 and higher. I don't see the plugin available for OSX, possibly in the new version of OSX...

 

Here's the Windows DSD page for reference.

 

I think you should start over, like Ted advised and rip to an album_name.ISO ,DST off. Let it work, then convert the ISO to DSF using Sonore's ISO2DSD this only takes less than 20s for an album. This way the tagging is preserved and minimal effort is needed in the tag editor to correct the entries.

 

Since your DAC is PCM only, another method to convert DSD to PCM is necessary. OSX doesn't support DSD direct transmission unless you use Audirvana +, HQPlayer to do the conversion for you, I have no idea if Auralic mini can convert on the fly, far as I know it's not that simple and requires some moderate to intensive CPU as found in regular computers.

 

For now, you choice is offline conversion, and convert the DSF to 176.4kHz sampling rate PCM. The only OSX application I know of that takes out the clicks at start of DSD files for offline conversion is AUI Converter.

 

Sounds to me XLD is causing too much pain.

[One and a half]

This is a great forum. My SACD collection (just 25 cds) has been rescued from oblivion. Xld is working fine. The only thing is the slightly lower volume. I know I can increase it with XLD, but I don't know if I should. Thanks to everyone who helped!

 

The lower volume is no problem, increase the preamp volume or other real analog method, thank the stars it's not over and clipping.

[One and a half]

No need for a monitor using windows. Just connect lan directly to pc and get the player ip from the network tab in windows explorer. What is the hangup with a Mac?

 

There are player preferences to check and adjust, with a new player, this is not possible from the Ethernet connection.

[One and a half]

I did have a monitor when I initially set mine up, the Pioneer Elite, but looking back, I think it would have worked without it. My player was set to lan and not wireless by defult. I also turned off autoplay but that was only for convenience.My player is now nowhere near a monitor and is directly connected to lan and rips fine. Oppo may default to wireless...

 

One of the requirements to rip sacd is to switch the autoplay to off. Further to set the player to sacd. A TV/ monitor is necessary to make these adjustments for a new player out of the box.

[One and a half]

Everything went well, looked very good...then I clicked on EXECUTE and (apparently) nothing.

I expect I should see evidence of ripping activity on the bottom pane of ISO2DSD.

I assumed (since I don't know any better) that "2002" goes at the end of the IP address since there's space for 4 digits in the IP address box.

Would appreciate feedback on this and any other advice anyone may have. TIA.

 

If there is no extraction process, give it about 10s anyway. If still no start, reboot the player, since a failed extract can hang the process but doesn't advise of this.

[One and a half]

You know that SHM discs are data-identical to their standard counterparts, yes? The "magic" is all in the plastic and manufacturing processes used to press the disc. Supposedly, this results in a cleaner read and therefore less error correction/jitter.

 

Some of the newer releases example Tangerine Dream SACD are mastered in Japan from the original tapes. The plastic and process or whatever they do, certainly is very pristine.

For preference I would choose MFSL releases, then SHM-SACD, SHM-CD for popular music. Haven't been disappointed with either.

[One and a half]

Are these up-conversions from Master Tapes?

 

They are remastered from the original tapes to the Scarlett Book format, reading from the liner notes.

[One and a half]

Thank you Ted, Grill and others for this thread.

 

Tried this out for the first time yesterday and it worked perfectly (apart from a bit of fiddling with USB stick partitions). Initial impression is that resulting playback of .dsf files via the DAC input of my Esoteric SACD Player, via HQP or JRMC 22, is preferable to the original SACDs on same machine.

 

I still find the original SACD played as effortless, open and always likable, I prefer it over a file any day. The Mediatek allowable ripping process preserves the file in case the original disc is damaged/lost by way of burned DVD easily restored, and also no conversion hurdles for DAPs, just copy and paste.

[One and a half]

Why not just use the mobile app to make the changes? A monitor is not necessary.

 

This thread concerns itself with three companies that produce blu-ray players of the "right stuff" to rip SACD.

The Cambridge Audio CXU does not have a remote app to configure the player, only on screen, have not checked the 725 Azure model, presume it's the same.

 

The Pioneer remote app might have deeper menus, but the website is short on some detail as to switch off autoplay, prefer SACD and so on.

 

The Oppo DB 10x does have a remote control app, that looks like a screen/TV is not required to setup the player. It looks as though the app is unfinished as the three posters reported problems with the app.

 

So is this what you mean by a mobile app, the one for the OPPO? When putting forward an idea, it's worth it not to be too general and vague people get the wrong idea. Do you work in IT?

[One and a half]

The Esoteric is a K07x, the bottom player in the lineup, so maybe the above is down to its (in Esoteric terms) comparatively less sophisticated optical transport.

 

Yes, since the data from the SACD is the same taken from the optical disc to a file, the playback chain is then the only difference. It's strange though, if I use the S/PDIF input on my SACD player, the SQ is not so great compared to playback through regular DAC. There's the extra USB-S/PDIF conversion, but that stage is just about transparent as you can get and the regular DAC uses an AES3 input.

Tried many a time to tweak the S/PDIF input on the SACD player including the Mutec and W4S remedy, but it's only suitable for lower fi sources, such as digital radio, so I'll leave it at that.

[One and a half]

I got a Pioneer BDP-170 today, an Amazon Warehouse Deal (customer return), supposed to only have minor optical flaws.

 

I would have preferred a new one, but it was the only such player available at a reasonable price (below list price). I meant to buy this one first, then maybe - after my first ripping experience - an Oppo later, so that I have two payers capable of SACD ripping (because we don't know if this possibility will ever come back with future players)

 

I actually didn't notice any optical flaws, but the player was dead on arrival. It won't turn on.

 

Great quality control by Amazon ...

 

So sorry to hear of this. Is it worth a shot to see inside if connectors have come adrift on the PCBs and to reseat them, cable unplugged of course. If the player has had several transportations during its short life, maybe something has worked its way loose.