Advice on update path

[hieukm]

Before OP makes any upgrades, I think the first question to ask is, are you happy with the headphones sound compared to the speaker sound. If you're happy with the headphones sound, and are primarily interested in upgrading the speaker sound, then chances are, the issue is a bass management issue or you just don't like the sound of the speakers. Learning how to measure the frequency response of the speakers and the room modes and then using your computer to DSP the peaks may help a lot more than new components. On the other hand, if you think speakers and headphones are performing similarly, then a computer upgrade or power conditioning would definitely give more bang for the buck.

 

Hi,

It seems your system is pretty similar to mind with much better cabling. How r u enjoying? Any thought to upgrade?

 

I am happy with my system now. Just got the itch to improve it further. I listed the power/transport upgrade route because it costs less, easy to choose and beneficial in the long run.

 

The speaker/amp upgrade cost would be equal to a whole new system as i feel that i need to upgrade to 15.000-20.000k range to see huge increase in sound quality.

 

I was rather surprise to the fact that an upgrade in term of transport would not bring great benefit. I have read review praised about software such as AO/Fidelizer, hardware such as JCaT-USB/Intona/LPS and ultimately a music server.

[vladimirb0b]

I was rather surprise to the fact that an upgrade in term of transport would not bring great benefit. I have read review praised about software such as AO/Fidelizer, hardware such as JCaT-USB/Intona/LPS and ultimately a music server.

 

Are you using ASIO, KS, or WASAPI now?

 

I am in the camp that is skeptical of messing with system processes to get better sound. If you are itching to upgrade your CPU I would try out Fidelizer which I think has a free trial. If it helps, you might try AO. If not, don't worry about it. Just my 2 cents; YMMV.

 

Edit: AO has a 14 day trial as well. So you might as well give it a try if you think it will help. If you build out the 2nd server you can A/B. What is your situation with regard to PC fan noise? A benefit of NUCs is they have no fans...

 

I have heard the Neat Elite SX and they beat out every commercial speaker I have heard in house. Port is tuned to 40 Hz which should be enough bass. The "EVS ground enhancer" brings them to an even higher level.

[ecwl]

Hi,

It seems your system is pretty similar to mind with much better cabling. How r u enjoying? Any thought to upgrade?

 

I am happy with my system now. Just got the itch to improve it further. I listed the power/transport upgrade route because it costs less, easy to choose and beneficial in the long run.

 

Obviously, we are all guessing a little. I suspect upgrading to a microRendu as a transport/streamer to your USB DAC will probably give you the most bang for your buck. Probably followed by power conditioning (which you really need to try in your system as their efficacy is highly system dependent) and then probably a new USB DAC. But it's hard to comment on the last two. It all comes down to what DAC you're upgrading to... Good luck.

[hieukm]

Obviously, we are all guessing a little. I suspect upgrading to a microRendu as a transport/streamer to your USB DAC will probably give you the most bang for your buck. Probably followed by power conditioning (which you really need to try in your system as their efficacy is highly system dependent) and then probably a new USB DAC. But it's hard to comment on the last two. It all comes down to what DAC you're upgrading to... Good luck.

 

I can borrow the microrendu to try and will report back the result. New USB DAC as a step up from Yggdrasil would have to be lampizator/TotalDAC in 15K range also.

 

Law of diminishing return scares me.

[vladimirb0b]

I can borrow the microrendu to try and will report back the result. New USB DAC as a step up from Yggdrasil would have to be lampizator/TotalDAC in 15K range also.

 

Law of diminishing return scares me.

 

Lampizator is tubes... do you want a tube DAC?

 

As far as TotalDAC it is R-2R and has to have precise matched resistors:

 

(According to http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/were-r2r-ladder-dacs-really-good-22423/index2.html)

"16-bit would be 0.0015% and 18-bit 0.00038% (sum of all errors)."

They quote 0.01% on their website, which doesn't seem good enough to me.

 

Personally, I would get a DAC with Ak4396 or ES9018, and/or wait for the AK4495EQ and ES9028/9038. I have seen AK4396 measure way,way better specs than the yggdrasil. The ygg might have better filter mojo that makes it sound better, though, for all I know

[hieukm]

Lampizator is tubes... do you want a tube DAC?

 

As far as TotalDAC it is R-2R and has to have precise matched resistors:

 

(According to http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/were-r2r-ladder-dacs-really-good-22423/index2.html)

"16-bit would be 0.0015% and 18-bit 0.00038% (sum of all errors)."

They quote 0.01% on their website, which doesn't seem good enough to me.

 

Personally, I would get a DAC with Ak4396 or ES9018, and/or wait for the AK4495EQ and ES9028/9038. I have seen AK4396 measure way,way better specs than the yggdrasil. The ygg might have better filter mojo that makes it sound better, though, for all I know

 

The lampi and totaldac is the 2 DAC gathering from my research would provide big jump in term of performance.

 

Yes. The Lampi is tube and Total is R2R. Other honorable mentioned should be T+A DSD/ EMM DA2/ OSDX.

 

Anyway, my research is based on online reading. I am trying to hear as much as i can. But it is very hard to do so from where i live.

[vladimirb0b]

I typed 4495EQ, meant 4497EQ.

 

If my DAC failed tomorrow, and I couldn't DIY, I might try one of these:

New Finished ES9018 DAC DSD 384K XLR Decoder You Can Upgrade to Remote Control | eBay

 

or

 

Gustard DAC X20U HiFi DAC D A Converter Dual ES9018 Xmos USB 384kHz DSD DOP 384K | eBay

 

or even better

 

Hi End Dual Parallel ES9018 DAC HiFi Digital Audio Decoder USB DSD Femto Clock | eBay

 

Not super glamorous but maybe a giant killer. And with your budget, worth a try. If you don't like it, sell, return, put in your TV setup, give it away, whatever.

 

P.S. Diminishing returns can be your friend with products like this for such a small price

[hieukm]

Got an PM from vladimir to update my thread.

 

I end of going with reworking the room for dedicated line, room treatment, Torus AVR16A and a brand new Magico S1 MK2.

 

The improvement for each of the upgrade was as following:

 

- Dedicated line: it improve much on blacker background and musical instrument separation. The bass got much deeper and tighter. The decay also gets slightly better.

-Room treatment: i dont feel there is much improvement as all it did was getting rid of the mid bass boom in my room.

-Magico S1 Mk2: the speaker bring a significant upgrade to my system. Bigger sound stage, more detail, much better dynamic, fuller sound, richer tonal.

-Torus AVR2: i think this is the more important update. The Torus bring out every single detail in the recordings. The soundstage is huge. It fills my room with music and details. For example: in Billie Jean by MJ, i can actually image him flicking his finger right in front of me now.

 

I already ordered the JS-2 and i think its the correct route given how the Torus has performed.

 

Next upgrade would be DAC and Source.

[vladimirb0b]

Good to see you found what you were looking for. What did you do for room treatment?

[hieukm]

Good to see you found what you were looking for. What did you do for room treatment?

 

Treating all reflection points on side walls, ceiling with absorber. Bass trap in the room corner behind speaker, however, i am debating this one since i felt that it killed the soundstage. Also a carpet in the first reflection point on the floor. Lastly, a diffusal behind my seating.

[beerandmusic]

with all the talk on this site about DACs, i found the biggest improvement next to speakers was the AMP.

 

I was blown away with the difference a good amp makes.

I could be very happy with a ton of DACs under $1000 (ifi, teac, korg).

 

Really depends on your budget.

 

I bought a $4K mcintosh amp which i finally settled on.

 

Software also makes a big difference...i personally like audiogate and a new program (although doesn't yet support native dsd..in the works)...RESONIC. Lot's here like HQPLAYER..and although the SQ sounds great, I don't like the interface (at least on version i tried a year ago..not sure if he has worked on the interface anymore or not since then..i would give it a try again if i heard he worked on the interface again. There is another software program that i forget the name of that i also can hear a good difference on...if i remember it, i will post it...it allows command line playing too for the computer nerds.

 

I just recommend you steer away from all the DAC stuff....most any $200 dac will sound fine these days with good amp and software...especially if you upconvert with software.

[vladimirb0b]

with all the talk on this site about DACs, i found the biggest improvement next to speakers was the AMP.

 

...

 

I just recommend you steer away from all the DAC stuff....most any $200 dac will sound fine these days with good amp and software...especially if you upconvert with software.

 

I agree about amps and wonder why there is no forum for them here. But like DACs, there is a point where you can't really get any better at a certain power. Take for instance the neurochrome.com amplifiers (DIY)

 

As far as upconversion, with my DAC (E-MU 0404 USB using AK4396) it actually hurts the specs. Whether the SQ improves enough to justify that I am not sure. Also not sure whether the problem is with the DAC or the ADC. Now I am happy with 44.1kHz/32 bit

[vladimirb0b]

It just dawned on me that the worse specs are due to the wider bandwidth of the measurement. I had been avoiding trying to find the difference between hi-res and Redbook audio but I guess I have no excuse now 96kHz is good, 192kHz still ugly.