Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty – The Digital Hub

[scottsol]

Your questions may all be answered soon.

 

The North American debut of the QX-5 will be at Audio Consultants (I work there) in Evanston Illinois ( Chicago area ) on Saturday June 18 from 11 to 5. Alex Brinkman of Ayre will be there to demonstrate the unit and answer questions.

 

Alex will then take the QX-5 to California the following Saturday for a showing at Music Lovers in Berkeley.

[scottsol]

All of Jordan's ( Blackstone) files were Flacs so he can't comment on DSD.

 

The QX-5 was set up Friday evening and , being dead cold, sounding thin and bright. We kept it playing overnight, and while much better in the morning, wasn't really right until late Saturday afternoon. By 5:30 Alex had to leave with it so I never had a chance to do anything like a proper evaluation. Nothing I heard on DSD tracks lead me to believe the QX-5 wouldn't handle all formats with equal aplomb, but this is a highly preliminary conclusion. Jordan is one of the few people who got to hear the setup sounding at its best. It should be noted that while the QX-5 was playing at a high level by the end of the day, it probably needs a few hundred more hours to reach full potential.

 

BTW The QX-5 is currently limited to DSD128 but this is a limitation of the current firmware,,not the hardware.

[scottsol]

The Ayre is a simple Roon Ready endpoint so you need a computer running Roon to act as the brains. The computer needs to be on your network but proximity to the Ayre is not important.

 

There are a number of apps that will control the Melco via iOs. My current favorite is Arcam MusicLife. The problem with Roon and Melco is that Roon is currently only writing code for Intel processors and the Melco uses ARM. There are people working on hacks for ARM processors.

 

I have not hear the Berkeley in a familiar environment so all I can say is that the QX-5 is really, really good and I am by nature a very negative guy.

[scottsol]

Scott, thanks. I know the Melco is the best NAS, but it just seems like it's complicated to run the Ayre with the Melco. Which app do you use? I only want something that I can run fully with my iPad. I assume that adding MQA is a hardware update and not a software one, correct? I also use Linn Kazoo for my Linn Kiko system. I'll look to see if that can also run the Melco. Roon just isn't making sense to me. For me to have to purchase come sort of computer device just to run a nice program seems ridiculous to me. I know I'm not in the minority here either. Everyone I've spoken with wants things to work as a plug and play system. Fewer boxes etc. is what most want alone with SQ. I'm now a free agent and will audition every DAC/server I can. Right now I have faith in Ayre and everything Alex told me about it, but in the end, unless I can use Roon from an iPad (seems like I can't) then the Roon endpoint is just that. The end I think. I also need an easy way to just upload CD;s and for them to get the metadata on their own. I"m not that computer savvy I guess. We will see how it all plays out. When will the QX5 truly be ready for shipment do you think? Are you just taking orders now? thanks.

 

Using the Melco with the Ayre need be no more complex than using an ordinary NAS or a local hard drive. If you hook the Melco to the Ayre via Ethernet you can use an iPad app to control the Ayre as a player. If you use the USB connection then your app controls the Melco and the Ayre is used just as a DAC. The app I like right now is Arcam Music Life. Many others are available including Linn Kinsky. Last time I tried I couldn't get Kazoo to work. In any case, for playing files, rather than doing Internet streaming, the QX-5 cannot work without some piece of hardware to store the files be it a Melco, a Synology or an external drive. As it turns out, one reason we like the Melco so much is that a lot of folks can get it set up and operational with a lot less hand holding from us than usual.

 

Roon is a much more complex offering than the other control software so is much more demanding of the capabilities of the device in which it resides. Don't want to have a computer, no problem, but don't expect the same features as Roon. Having set up a computer with Roon you never need to touch it again, you can do everything with an iPad.

 

Adding MQA to the Ayre would almost certainly be done by software.

 

With the Melco's 3.0 software you can now use an external optical drive to rip CDs directly to the Melco.

 

The first QX-5s will be dealer display models. You might think consumer orders should be filled first, but there is no way we dealers can provide an appropriate level of service if we don't have a unit to work with. Ayre thinks consumer units may ship in late July but I would not be surprised if that estimate is off by at least a month. I would also guess that the first consumer production run will be sold out before they begin to ship. You've got two things going on. Initial demand for a product like this is going to be higher than it will in the long run and responsible manufacturers will have slower production initially to make sure everything is just right.

[scottsol]

Thanks for the first impressions, Scott.

 

The imperative question, at least on my mind is, how does it compare to the dCS Rossini dac sitting right next to it?

 

 

thanks and cheers !

 

At triple the price (without the external clock) I hope the Rossini is better. The DCS in the picture is the Vivaldi.

[scottsol]

Ayre added QX-5 to their website and indicated that it is now shipping. Not that I believe it but it is a good sign! My birthday is Saturday...there is still time!

 

I've talked to Alex about all your complimentary posts and he has agreed to not put you lower on the list just because you are a customer of mine

[scottsol]

Ah, my naive young friend. If Alex had tasted it he would then have extorted great mounds of it for you to get the DAC at all.

[scottsol]

Scott Alex said some really nice things about you. I'm going to visit the next time I'm in chitown.

 

I'm not really that good, but I do have certain information about Alex that he would like to remain confidential.

[scottsol]

I might possibly just get the Melco NAS and change the hard drives to SSD's if I am able to do that.

 

Melco has stated that they found their hard drive solutions to have better sound than SSD except for the devices they use in the N1ZS. That unit is not available in the U.S. because of some legal issue involving those specific SSDs.

[scottsol]

 

I am not saying ethernet can't be better with the right nas, but the idea that ethernet is better than a straight async usb connection from your pc because the pc is not a good source is nonsense based on my experience.

 

Jordan,

 

Here's a test that may lessen your harsh reaction to ethernet. Replace your Transparent USB cable with some generic cable. Still sound better than ethernet? Probably, but the difference will be noticeably less.

 

The point of this? Ethernet cables are as important to sound quality as the USB cable, as is the quality of your network infrastructure. And BTW, I regret to inform you that there are USB cables that will sound substantially better than your entry level Transparent. However, I don't recommend exploring that right now. Don't go looking for a mistress while you are still on your honeymoon.

 

Also, while it is no longer is much of a concern for you I found I could get consistent switching between USB and Ethernet with the following procedure. Pause what is playing. Switch input on Ayre. Start playback of new source.

[scottsol]

Scott, so just out of curiosity, how did we feed the QX-5 at the demo? Was there a router for the ethernet or was the melco connected directly to the QX-5 via ethernet cable?

 

I don't remember. What is for sure is that we were using Transparent's new High Performance Ethernet cables ($275 for 1 meter).

[scottsol]

FYI, here is the answer that my dealer received from AYRE's tech support regarding switching from USB <-> Ethernet.

 

So... if I read well, we are not supposed at all to switch on the fly from the 2 inputs !!!

 

May be someone can explain better what the technicien means exactly and what are the implications for us.

 

"The QX-5 uses three different standards to stream music over the network, which are DLNA, RAAT, and the Spotify network protocol.

DLNA needs three things to work. First thing is a renderer, which is a network attached streaming device (like the QX-5). Second is a server, which is the source of the music. Lastly, is a controller, which sets up the audio stream from the server to the renderer. The QX-5 acts as both a server and a renderer, which means you just need a controller to get it to play! Using a DLNA application (mConnect, Bubble uPNP, Foobar, WMP), you can see the "Ayre QX-5 Server" and play files from it to the "Ayre QX-5" renderer. Note that only DLNA applications can use the QX-5 as a server like this!!!

Roon uses its own standard, RAAT. In order to use roon, you must have a Roon core (computer application) as well as your own music on your network/computer. The QX-5 is a Roon enabled device, and can be selected and played to from Roon. As mentioned above, you won't be able to use the QX-5 Server through Roon at this time.

Spotify also has it's own streaming protocol, but works essentially the same way as the two previous ones.

In order to switch between audio sources, you MUST disable any that are currently being used before switching to a new application. For now, the

QX-5 will prioritize the first control source that gets to it, and will ignore others until the first one calls it quits.

On the iPad, the customer simply needs a DLNA application, from which they can stream to the QX-5."

 

Ayre's answer does not address switching from network to USB, it concerns switching between multiple network sources. So, if you are comparing MConnect vs Roon in network mode you have to disable one before switching to the other.

[scottsol]

Scott, thanks for being on top of this issue. I spoke with someone who's using the ethernet connection (audioquest diamond I believe he said) and loves it. He's using the optical converter that we've mentioned previously and he has a very very low noise floor. He feels it's a bit better than his USB connection, but it's not light years as some seem to think they will get.

 

As for the Tidal question, I'd think that you'd just use the QX5's built in streamer for Tidal and not worry about an outside box feeding the DAC, no? I too am learning on the fly if you would. Scott, thanks for the Melco info. As much as I want Roon, I keep thinking I may just go Melco via ethernet connection and go from there. I want to keep things as simple as I can too and the Melco can quickly connect to an optical drive to rip directly to it. I know there is a licensing agreement issue with the US delivery of the SSD N1Z. Scott have you heard the N1A vs the N1ZH? I was thinking about going with the top Melco (in the US at least). I just think using separate LPS, would serve much cleaner signal, but who knows. Thanks.

 

The N1ZH is better than the N1A in the same way that the N1A is better than ordinary devices. Quieter, more relaxed, better flow etc. Even using a Sonos speaker I can hear the difference between our Synology, N1A and N1Zh- and this is using our very big wired network, not direct.

 

I seems unlikely, but not out of the question, that an outboard Tidal streamer hooked up through USB might sound better than using the Ayre as the streamer.

[scottsol]

I think I may just sell it to the highest bidder and just move the music to a hard drive and then once I get the Melco, move that music over to it. Is that pretty easy to do?

 

Simply hook the drive to the Melco via USB, the Melco will ask if you want to transfer the contents and , being a clever guy, you will enter "yes".

 

We love the Melco not only because of the great sound, but we can let our computer averse customers self install and usually not have to call for help.

[scottsol]

You would not use the Ayre Mcontrol app. Simply put the Ayre in the USB input and treat as a conventional DAC.

 

Only testing can determine if the Rendu would have any sonic advantages. Naturally, the USB cable and the quality of the network feed would be a factor.

[scottsol]

They said that basically a spinning disk or SSD needs a computer, but somehow the thumb drive is noticed. Wish knew digital like you guys, lol.

 

I was told the issue was the amount of data on the drive. An HDD with 4 Gig would work, but why bother.

[scottsol]

After some comparisons, I changed my plans to sell my microRendu and use the QX-5 Ethernet input. Running Ethernet to the microRendu (powered by JS-2), and a short USB cable to the USB input, results in significantly better sound. I wanted to simplify but it's not going to happen at the expense of audio performance. The upside is that I get more options than just Roon or UPNP.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

What Ethernet cable were you using?

[scottsol]

Can anyone tell me if the QX-5 Tidal streaming functionality can access the new 'Masters' higher resolution recordings Tidal is currently adding? My understanding these are only available on the Tidal desktop native app and not on the wireless versions.

 

You could use the digital out of a BLuesound Node or a computer running the Tidal App but you cannot get hires from Tidal without an extra piece of attached hardware.

 

The Ayre does not have the software to unfold the MQA files, nor does the current version of Roon or the custom version of MConnect designed for Ayre.

 

You can play the files, but they will be 24/48. Still may be better than the standard Tidal stream, but not hi res.

[scottsol]

If you set the Tidal app to exclusive mode for the Ayre you will be able to get up to 24/96 on Tidal Masters files.

 

Roon will be able to do the same thing in a month or so. I'll be updating to 1.3 on Monday.

 

Did you try using Roon Server?

[scottsol]

Roon, like other software based systems, will not unfold beyond 24/96. You will not get native for 176 and beyond.

[scottsol]

Once I get my speakers and AX5 back I need to get going on my home network as I'm changing over to Comcast. Then I can figure out what to use lol. Was told to run Roon and HQPlayer out of my MAC Mini server wired into my network that will have optical isolation. Then run that converter into my QX5 and run it via iPad. Scott?? Does that work? Other thoughts to add? Thanks for the help. I hope all the local guys are flocking to you to get their digital set up

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Using Ethernet the Ayre is currently limited to DSD64 and 192 PCM. If you want to try higher rates you will need to use USB. Also be aware that the Ayre only excepts DSD in the DOP format.

[scottsol]

The QX-5 allows you to bypass the computer and simply connect the Ayre to directly to your network. Depending on your setup this may not be important.

 

This is quite secondary to the main reason to replace the QB-9, the QX-5 is much better better sounding. 

[scottsol]

18 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

I've been reading this whole thread. Why do I get the idea that you are somehow related to Ayre?

Perhaps because you have not read carefully.

 

It would not be unreasonable to call him a fanboy, but he has no relationship with Ayre other than being a happy customer.

[scottsol]

On 10/10/2017 at 1:58 AM, austinpop said:

 

Actually, in practice, it takes about the same gain setting on my amp to achieve the same perceived level of loudness with both headphones. This is really the relevant metric that tells me both are roughly the same sensitivity.

 

Tyll's measurements show both need 0.16mW to achieve 90dB SPL. I'm glad Tyll measures these, because the published specs are apples and oranges:

• Focal Elear: 104 dB/1 mW
• HD800:         102 dB/1V RMS

 

 Charlie’s point was that for a given power output a lower impedance load will draw more current (and less voltage) than a higher impedance load. Subject to battery types, high voltage capability in an amp is a cheap characteristic but high current output requires upgrades in the power supply, output devices and heat dissipation facilities.

 

For portable use there can be an advantage to using a headphone with low impedance. The batteries impose a low limit on the output voltage and for any given voltage a low impedance will draw more power subject to any current limitations.

 

1 mW to the 90 ohm load of the Elear equates to .9V which places the two ratings within 1 dB of each other and close to Tyl's measurement.So the specs do tell you to expect the same volume control settings for both sets, but this does not imply the same strain on the circuitry.

[scottsol]

On 10/10/2017 at 2:16 AM, Tecnik1 said:

Hi Charles,

 

I checked to make sure its indeed G software even tried a refresh. I use the full paid version of Mconnect and the Melco is running on the 3.50 FW. 

 

I get dropouts after about 6 songs.

 

The Melco settings are as follows:

Network,                      LAN using DHCP
Control mode,            0
Control app,               Mconnect full paid version.
Configure,                  DSD over PCM priority mode.
Latency.                      0.75

 

Best Regards,

 

Steven

Since you have the problem when using either a network or USB connection to the Ayre is is very unlikely that the Ayre is involved. This sounds like a network issue.

 

The first thing I would try is resetting your router. If you have a computer you can hook that up to your network with an Ethernet cable and bypass the WiFi to see if that is the issue.