wtfplay

[sligolad]

We have finally seen the release of wtfplay wtfplay-project.org from the developer (I first heard it in basic form over 2 years ago) which is a minimalist Linux based player which for me beats all previous software for real serious audiophile listening that I have tried and lived with in recent years, including JRiver, JPlay, BHE and more.

 

It took a little while to get used to typing text to get to the music but well worth the effort once you get there and it has retired my heavily modified Dual PC setup down to a single Audio PC with no on board SSD for OS.

 

There is no going back to any other software after hearing PCM from wtfplay through my Big7 and I have been happy to listen only to PCM for several months now such is the quality of playback from this basic little player.

 

I have converted DSF tracks to DOP which I have listened to on wtfplay but still keep coming back to the PCM versions as it is that good.

Bear in mind the developer has not supported DSD yet but from what some of the early beta testers have found including myself is that it will pass DSD in DOP to your DAC if it is capable of playing DSD in DOP.

 

You can tweak settings from the command line but I have been happy using the basic file player utility wtfcui as I see no need to do any further tweaking of buffers and such.

 

It will be interesting what others find but all I can do is alert anyone who puts sound quality reproduction ahead of functionality to try it out for free.

 

For reference I had no idea about Linux OS before I tried this so as a windows stalwart it was a bit of a challenge but once I got my head around it after a few days it is so easy now.

 

Once you write the little player to a USB stick and plug it into your PC, boot the PC and wtfplay loads, check that your DAC is seen and its address, type in the command line to get to wtfcui and from there it is like an explorer window where you should see all your music files ready for playback.

 

Cheers and happy listening, Pearse.

[sligolad]

The developer is getting requests for network support since release and I believe he is going to consider it for future releases.

Hopefully for those requiring network functionality you will not loose any of the incredible sound quality that it currently delivers in its minimalist form.

Cheers, Pearse.

[sligolad]

If anyone interested needs good information on this player then best to have a look here where there is more activity and feedback:

Tír Na HiFi • View topic - wtfplay project - it's official

 

Early days yet with it only released weeks ago so it will take time for some good ears to latch on to it :-))

[sligolad]

I have no AMD hardware myself but there is a guy over here Tír Na HiFi • View topic - wtfplay project - it's official who used the core2 version on his AMD base machine and had good results.

 

Dedicated AMD versions are probably further down the list of requests to the developer so far but no doubt he will work on it given the response so far.

[sligolad]

If the best sound quality is your goal then I think we passed crazy several years ago with all the various hardware/software approaches we now have to getting to that end.

In CA today crazy lies in the eye of the beholder!

 

I heard an modified SD Card player with an LCD screen for navigating to select tracks on a wooden board into a modified Soekris DAC all for less than $1k, which could easily beat a lot of $10k + systems.....now that is crazy in my world.

 

It did sound great though!!!

[sligolad]

wtfplay 0.5 is now a serious challenger in the DSD arena, while it had unsupported capability previously to read DSD DOP files I was still blown away by its PCM sound which was a clear winner against all other players.

 

Now with DSD supported I have been truly amazed listening to my DSF files again on Lampi Big7.

 

I currently have an F-1 Xmos XU208 USB card wired by i2s direct to the DSD Board in the Big7 with 5v supplied to the card by a Paul Hynes Linear supply and DSD sounds amazing.

 

Hopefully Amanero can get DSD for Linux properly supported one of these days which sounds like it is almost there so lots to look forward with uwtfplay-dsd direct into the Lampizator Big 7.

 

2016 is again proving to be a great year for PC based playback with wtfplay coming in and raising the bar for music enjoyment.

Well done frd____

[sligolad]

I'm able to play native non-DoP DSD files with uwtfplay-dsd with my JLSounds AK4490 DAC (highly customized).

Hi Massimiliano, been travelling and listening to some great music so a bit slow getting back here.

That is some impressive gear for the DIY minded you linked to and great to hear you are getting DSD playing out of that little DAC.

 

Just ordered the little i2s to USB board myself from JL to play with its DSD capabilities and see how it compares with the F1 which continues to impress.

PCM is just amazing out of the spdif from the F1 with the latest uwtfplay-dsd, I continue to be shocked how much more I am hearing from 16 44 PCM with uwtfplay.

 

Have you tried PCM yet on uwtfplay-dsd?

Cheers, Pearse.

[sligolad]

Hi Guys,

 

Nice gear Massimiliano.....you should really enjoy the benefits of uwtfplay on your setup.

 

Regarding uwtfplay-dsd I too believed it was just for raw DSD until one day I put on some PCM files forgetting to select uwtfplay and music played, after a while I thought how good everything was sounding and just put it down to the F1 USB to SPDIF card burning in.

 

When I noticed I was still using uwtfplay-dsd I began switching between uwtfplay and uwtfplay-dsd and to me I felt there was a slight improvement with uwtfplay-dsd for PCM playback.

 

I questioned the developer and he tells me there are very small differences but that uwtfplay-dsd will still switch to PCM out if sees the file is not DSD.

 

Ultimately he plans on removing the uwtfplay option and just run with the uwtfplay-dsd build in the next release, early days yet but there have been some significant improvements in a short period and I am struggling to keep up with his developments particularly when it comes to DSD playback.

 

I am just so glad that PCM playback is improving and it is well ahead of anything I have heard since I started down this CA route some 4 years ago now....2016 is also proving to be one hell of a year for CA.

 

Cheers, Pearse.

[sligolad]

I'm still addicted to WTF as a player! For some reasons it has a perfect match with my JLSounds interface/dac combination.

The JL Sounds card also worked great here but swapped it for the latest DIYINHK card and another leap in performance.

The Low Frequencies unlocked by moving to this latest card has been amazing on the Lampi Big7

 

WTFPLAY has been the best player bar none to allow me to hear some of the most amazing music I never thought was present in my collection.

It just does not get in the way and allows exactly what is in the track to get through, each hardware change/mod in my chain has been so revealing using WTFPLAY I just cannot go back to other players.

 

For gapless playback Massimiliano I have taken steps for albums where it is a must to just go back and rip the whole CD as one track and it is worth all the effort rather than going to another player:-)

 

Cheers, Pearse.

[sligolad]

Interested in others' thoughts on optimum PC spec for wtfplay - Low power = better?

There are various camps Norton but for me I always went for a decent motherboard with an i7 processor.

Several other guys use Mini ATX board with i3 and i5 processors but ultimately we all down clock the processor and memory to as low as it will go which tends to be 800Mhz in Bios.

 

wtfplay requires very little horsepower and any low power PC should be able to run it well.

Going with a decent ATX PC and processor with good memory means that by the time you down clock all the hardware it is hardly breaking a sweat and there is little to no heat or noise generated, no fans or big heat-sinks required.

 

The highest load I have placed on wtfplay has been 192 24 pcm files and DSD 2x and even with everything at 800 Mhz it plays back beautifully.

Cheers, Pearse.

[sligolad]

What make of motherboard do you have, from there I can give better advice as the Bios screens can be very confusing across different motherboard manufacturers?

[sligolad]

It's an Asus motherboard. Thanks.

I have not used an Asus for an audio PC for a while but I have an Asus on my AV PC which has the UEFI Bios.

 

If you are comfortable with navigating through a Bios then you should be able to get to CPU and memory settings.

When you get into the Bios you can go to Advanced mode tab in the bottom right.

Then select the AI Tweaker tab top left.

In there you can select Sync All Cores and type in 8 for 1 Core Ratio Limit, this will result in 800Mhz for CPU.

Then go to DRAM Frequency and from the drop down select 800Mhz

F10 save and exit should save these settings.

 

If it is an earlier Asus Bios then it will look different but if you can navigate to the CPU multiplier and System Memory Multiplier and type in the 8 values for both and save you will have made good progress.

 

If you are really comfortable with Bios you can go further and tweak the memory timings and switch off all C States, switch off all Hyper Threading, EIST, onboard Audio and various other default settings not needed for an audio PC.

 

It is worth doing some googling on Bios tweaks for your motherboard as at least you will find out how to restore to default if you do something wrong like removing the CMOS battery for a short period to restore if you really mess up.

 

You cannot go too wrong when downclocking a PC but it can be a frustrating learning curve but worth it once you get a handle on getting it all optimised for audio playback.

 

I have a load of screenshots for Gigabyte UEFI Bios settings for Wtfplay which I will post soon if anyone is interested in getting the best sound possible from Gigabyte board. The key is lowest power, lowest noise which wtfplay thrives on and gives back such a superior listening experience.

 

[sligolad]

sligolad

 

What does this do? I have left mine at Auto.

 

Robert

It drops the RAM Memory speed as low as it can go and therefore the RAM chips require less power, music which gets loaded to RAM loads a little slower but with the end result of a lower noise floor in the playback.

 

As Shpongle mentioned tighter timings (lower values) help as well but a little more difficult to find the lowest timings that work with your RAM. Only for those dedicated to play in this area with some patience.

 

I have mine running at 6 6 6 19 reliably.

[sligolad]

"Auto" on my PC seems to result in values of 5,5,5,14 - does that mean it's fine as is?

 

Also does CPU cache ratio min/max matter? Should I be aiming for 800mhz here too?

Sounds like you have good quality RAM there Norton so looks good.

 

I leave CPU Cache Ratio (also known as Uncore Ratio) alone, disabling all C States would be a better option if you feel up to it.

[sligolad]

Gosh I have tons of bass with wtfplay and detailed.Robert

Same here, lots of dense tight bass which I have never had with any other player.

[sligolad]

Thanks frd! I ordered this:

Mele F10 Deluxe fly-mouse review - AndroidPCReview

Been working with the Mele F10 for all control of wtfplay over recent weeks and it is working great here with the latest release.

 

This has been the most significant release for me to date since wtfplay was launched, with the updated player bypassing some Alsa libraries now and going direct to Linux kernel it has improved sound.

 

Also I have added a lot of hardware recently and wtfplay works with it all with no hiccups and has added flexibility.

 

I have recently added a JPlay femto usb card, PPA OCXO CF Card reader for music files, and the Startech as discussed here:

USB Strikes Back! Watch out AOIP - USB/Ethernet Chain beats All (at least for me)

 

The Startech beats the PPA OCXO CF Card reader so all my listening is now from the Startech which works great with wtfplay even with wtfplay being loaded off one of the Startech USB ports on startup.

 

Audio PC - Gigabyte H97M-D3H @ 800Mhz Cpu & 800Mhz Ram, PPA OCXO Mobo, Teradak ATX Linear for 20 pin ATX on Mobo, Paul Hynes SR7EHD 12v for Mobo, 5v for clocks & 5v supply to Audiowind Regulator for 1.3v to RAM direct, JCat Femto USB Card 5v from Paul Hynes, Startech Lex – Amber Regen to JCat USB & Startech Rex to Lex by 2x Meicord LAN through GISO GB Isolator powered by Teddy Pardo 18v Linear, Wtfplay off USB on REX – remote control by Mele F10, D to D - PPA Red USB Cable - Intona Isolator- LFP 3.3v battery powered USB Regen – Isolated Xmos 768kHz USB DDC powered by 2 x 3.3v 0.8uV Linear Regs – i2s - D to A - Lampizator Big7, Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS, Classe CA 2200, Raidho C1s. Recent changes underlined.

[sligolad]

Hi Bodiebill,

I am playing dsf files now with my Big7 and I never heard DSD tracks sound so amazing.

I had stopped listening to HighRez and DSD because wtfplay was just so good on redbook files, better than any other player i tried.

 

Some time ago after trying superclocks on the Big7 without much benefit on the Amanero I then tried some Xmos cards which showed promise, then F1 USB card using i2s which was an improvement, then JLSounds card with clock board with anther step up.

Finally landed on the Isolated Xmos 768kHz USB DDC powered by 2 x 3.3v 0.8uV Linear Regs – i2s - reclocker which was the best of all by a way. So this is now running inside the Big7 and it has really brought the Big7 to a whole other level.

Link to work carried out here:

Tír Na HiFi • View topic - Lampizator Big7

 

The addition of the JCat Femto card and Startech was the icing on the cake. I am going to bring my gear to a large group get together tomorrow to see what the reaction is and will report back.

 

Going to get another listen to a LifePo battery powered custom design Amp which has been a giant killer at previous meets, hopefully this is now ready for final build and should be a great combo with the Big7.

 

I will hopefully get a bit more info on DSD playback from frd as regards Xmos as I am not certain if the dsf files are going through as native or not but dsf tracks on this version of wtfplay really do sound amazing.

 

As well as the above and some sets of electrostatic speakers we will be using a set of custom build 2 way speakers with ceramic cones and these have always been very impressive. So fingers crossed all with match up to some sonic bliss or maybe not!!!

 

Either way I should be able to provide some more feedback soon on DSD playback.

[sligolad]

Thanks frd, yes I will test it myself. If I will hear a difference it will agains my expectation because the files are played from RAM. But ears have to prevail over theory :-)

Unfortunately the source of the files still makes a difference :-((

 

I have tried all manner of SSD's with PPA TCXO SSD, PPA OCXO SSD, PPA CF Card adaptor with OCXO, PPA Sata cables and all loading into RAM under Ram disk and now Wtfplay.

 

I have recently moved away from SATA as there was an improvement going to the Startech Isolator with USB sticks for music.

 

You would think the type of USB stick would not matter after going the the LAN Isolator but a recent purchase of SLC USB sticks has made a marked improvement over MLC USB sticks. Harder to come by and more expensive the SLC USB solution is the best storage hardware I have heard so far.

[sligolad]

That is really interesting. When I remove my usb stick or SD card after wtfplay has loaded the files, the music plays gloriously.

Does wtfplay really 'remember' where the files came from?

If our ears say 'yes' we have to believe it, but it would be mind-boggling :-)

Meant to reply and clarify a while back Bodiebill but I have been travelling quite a bit recently, finally back to some listening :-)

 

The SLC USB sticks i use are for the music files only, as you say the Wtfplay files are loaded to RAM on boot and therefore no other comms are needed with the USB boot stick once up and running.

I have 4 SLC USB sticks in the Startek Rex, one 32Gb and 3 x 64Gb SLC USB sticks from Winkom in Germany.

I see Mach Xtreme now have 128GB SLC sticks on sale now.

 

I leave the USB stick with Wtfplay in the Audio PC all the time as no need to remove and the last settings used are stored to the stick on shutdown.

 

At some point I will try loading Wtfplay on the 32GB SLC stick and see if it makes any difference but I would definitely not expect to hear any difference hence why I have not tried this.

 

A recent change to my system, I had the JCat Femto USB card and after replacing the JCat V1.1 USB Card now surplus to requirements I decided to modify it with a PPA 24Mhz OCXO I had lying around. The OCXO is in the Audio PC powered with 5v from a Paul Hynes supply.

 

This was another lift in performance over the JCat Femto so happy days.

[sligolad]

Thanks, sligolad. But I meant the usb stick with the music files. Actually I can remove both the wtf system stick and the music stick. Also the music files are loaded in RAM, at least one by one; and the music keeps playing when the stick is removed. So I cannot imagine the improvement of using an SLC stick for either.

All storage media makes a difference even when the files are written to RAM, most good players today buffer to RAM and the difference between storing music files on HDD, SSD, CF Cards, MLC USB sticks and SLC USB sticks matters a lot as do the clocks on the Storage hardware and particularly how you power the storage media.

 

2 years ago it would have been a bits are bits argument but finally many people are confirming what many of us have found with different storage media...unfortunately it does matter.

[sligolad]

Good to hear another voice that has discovered this hidden gem...if it is the best sound you are after then nothing beats it still, and you know what, there is an even better version hopefully in the works...that's what my ears tell me anyway which was surprising!!

 

Fryderyk sends out test versions every couple of months or even weeks sometimes to some trusted ears and i do not know who all of them are at this point, but until he gets consensus that there has been an improvement it does not get into the next release.

What I can say is that after listening to many versions over the years this recent change with new kernel and lots of other changes has been a real positive surprise to me so hopefully it makes release soon.

 

The key learning for the ultimate CA from the journey over many years still reinforces the fact that to extract the best from a music file you need clean power everywhere you can get it, minimal OS activity, lowest computer timings and hardware activity (noise), good clocks, isolation on reading/transfer of the music files to RAM and isolation on the USB transfer to DAC.

 

The big eyeopener after moving to WTFPlay has been the discovery on just how good old redbook files sound, i am rediscovering serious new information and emotion in a big catalog of redbook flac and wav files.

So much so that I rarely listen to DSD these days despite having a good collection of music in DSF and a Big7 and a Meitner MA1 for playback.

Others seem to agree on redbook but only after up-sampling to DSD, but for me with WTFPlay it gives the same result without increasing horsepower and the added noise at the hardware and software level that is required.

 

Great times indeed for those just interested in the listening experience without all the visuals on a Video monitor.

[sligolad]

This Cudowna broń player has instructions for real world systems....even for OSX....RTM 

 

[sligolad]

6 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

Would you please give a link to instructions for OSX? Thank you.

Follow link in the first line of first post in this tread and you will find a very good set of instructions.

 

For installation guides and user guides click on the Docs link at the top of the page.

It can be a bit daunting if you have always been a GUI user in Windows or OSX like myself but if I can work it out then most can get to terms with a Linux based setup....again only worth the effort if sound quality is your main interest as graphic content will be minimal at best.

 

Good thing is that you do not mess up your OS or hardware even if you give up on the USB stick preparation or you stop running the software off your USB stick....PC or laptop remains unchanged.

 

Once you create the USB stick you can move it between PC's or laptops.

[sligolad]

7 hours ago, bodiebill said:

However, when trying to play DSD64 via the Audio Aéro, I only get a soft hiss. I do remember this DAC played DSD files under Windows. However, all the wtfplay variants I tried produce this hiss. Is this DAC not compatible with wtfplay DSD?

Surprised to hear DSD files do not play as I do know Fryderyk has tested a lot of USB hardware with the player, I expect he will have a look in here soon with some ideas on what may be the problem.

 

Must look up this DAC myself but good to hear it work well with Redbook.

[sligolad]

5 hours ago, Ipoci said:

 

Totally agree. I consider wtfplay an anomalous cd/sacd disk player and I love the minimalist approach. Sound quality first, 37MB overall system size for easy boot and full RAM playout and execution.

 

I'm currently considering the possibility to build a custom fanless computer connected to a small (8"-9" inches) monitor. I would like to avoid a full keyboard connected to it, so I'm trying to understand if a small "programmable" keyboard can do the job. I mean a keyboard with 10 keys remapped to the main functions of wtfcui <shift> <a><A><d><D><L><q><F10> ... are you aware of something useful for the scope?

 

Have a nice day. Massimiliano

Hi Massimiliano, I have used a 12 key programmable keypad in the past but it had a hard wired USB connection, easy to program and there are various options available if you google for a programmable keypad.

I ended up going with the recommendation by Bodiebill for the Mele F10 at the bottom of page 4 for the http://androidpcreview.com/mele-f10-deluxe-fly-mouse-review/2946/

This works very well and is wireless. I have stuck some labels on it to remind me of the seldom used commands.

The up and down arrows after boot up once you have found your way around wtfplay initial setup gets me to most of what i need given the last used commands are immediately available.

Having the pause, skip forward and back tracks as well as move about 10 seconds back and forth easily available on the Mele are great for moving through music when required.

 

I am on holidays at the moment so just picking up occasionally, great to see so much activity on here at the moment.

Cheers, Pearse.