recording method vs sound reproduction

[Sal1950]

I good read from when it was all starting,

Journal of the Audio Engineering Society April 1958

Stereophonic Sound with Two Tracks, Three Channels by Paul W Klipsch

https://community.klipsch.com/forums/storage/3/1084848/Stereo_2track_3channel.pdf

 

For some great modern multi channel recordings on BluRay see,

Mark Waldrep's BluRays usually include 5.1 recording done with different mic perspectives that give you either a audience or a stage listening position. All done in excellent 24/96 True High Definition sound. If you have a top shelf 5.1 system these offer some of the best multi channel hi def recording available.

AIX Records - Home Page

[Sal1950]

I still like the idea of subtle ambient hall sound in rear surrounds either miked, dsp, or matrix. Been having something like that available since the 70s quad days. But I'm a rocker so we're told we don't count here. Too bad since we're about 95% of the market. Won't make any money by ignoring us. WOO :-)

[Sal1950]

Nobody's "ignoring" rockers, it's just that even though rock and other forms of pop are a by far the largest market segment, the way the music is realized and recorded doesn't lend itself to ambience retrieval. Besides, if you gave most most rock producers the carte blanche to do surround for their productions, they wouldn't be able to resist putting the musical group all around the room and this has been proven by the fact that they couldn't resist it during the quadriphonic era. Also, pop is primarily a commercial venture rather than an artistic one (although many would argue that pop and rock are art as well, I'll stay out of that can of worms) and by far, the lion's share of that audience is listening on ear-buds or cheap players of some kind and don't give a hoot or a dollar about such niceties as "subtle ambient hall sound". After all, the term 'subtle' is not exactly the word that most people would associate with most pop, and especially rock and rap.

Totally agree with your comment on what most producers do with 5.1, I had full quad back in the mid 70s with Marantz 2270 + 2440, most were garbage. But there's some very fine work being done on BD like David Gilmour's Remember That Night.

We could have a real argument over what is or isn't art but that just boils down to opinion and isn't worth the breath to discuss LOL

As to what rockers are listening on, don't forget it was baby boomer gen rockers that built high end audio. More high end equipment was sold to listen to Dark Side of the Moon than all other music styles combined. Plus the labels are still surviving on reselling 30-40 year old rock recordings on the latest digital or vinyl pressing fads. When we finally all croak off it will be dark days for the component equipment industry. LOL

[Sal1950]

While that might be true later on, I don't think they had much say initially. Go back and look at some of the very early TAS issues or Stereophile issues or Hi-Fi News and Record Reviews. There were lots of record reviews but nary a one pertaining to rock music. Seems to me (IIRC) that rock reviews didn't start to appear with any regularity until the late 1980s (and then rarely), but by the turn of the century, they had slowly, but inexorably become dominant. Same with equipment reviews. Early-on in the high-end game, all references to recorded works used to evaluate equipment were classical (with an occasional jazz reference). Now it's pretty much all rock with an occasional classical reference (especially from the older reviewers).

 

 

I suspect that when we croak-off, so will the industry.

 

True at the very beginning of High End cause JGH, HP, and all were mostly classical music fans. But it didn't take them long to realize that the market for equipment was being driven by the rockers and if they wanted the readership base to grow beyond the tiny numbers the classical music base would support, they better get on the soul train. The third thing the average boomer bought after he entered the work force was a HiFi for his crib and car

I find it sad the way the whole industry has changed.

What ever kind of music you like it's become just a background noise to life for today's generation?

I thought that the Home Theater market was going to hold out some hope but it appears that market is shrinking along with the boomers ageing too? Cheap ass sound bars are all most really want now.

[Sal1950]

"Nimrod Antal"

An appropriate name I would think.

 

"one of the most popular and influential rock bands in history"

That's a laugh, just another crank the amps to 10 heavy metal noise band.

 

Now Atmos, When is the Home Theater crew going to learn that 5.1 systems are about as far as they can push the average joe and his spouse for clutter in the living room. First it was 7.1 then 9.1 then 11.1 now Atmos and that other new speaker in the ceiling system. The more they push these multi speaker systems the more the wife says, just get the sound bar. LOL

[Sal1950]

I did in fact hear quite a few audiophiles, even well heeled ones with costly systems, say the same thing in the late 50's into the 60's. Except, then it was about the advent of stereo, which was, of course, awful compared to the mono they knew and loved. Stereo, they said, was a mere ploy to "sell more amplifiers and speakers".

 

And here we are 50 years later and most "stereo" home systems are one box systems with the l & r speakers no more than 12 inches apart, or one speaker in a corner and the other on a bookshelf in the back of the room. How many of your friends that aren't cult audiophiles actually have a set of speakers set up to throw a decent image? Over close to 50 years as an audiophile I've had more friends that I can count come over to visit. I'd of course want to show off my system and sit them in the sweet spot then play some amazing recordings. Their mouths would drop and they'd say something about it being like the musicians were right in the room with the singer and lead guitar right in front of him, and the band just laid out across the area behind the speakers. I'd tell them it's mainly due to correct setup of the speakers and listening position and that their system could do something very similar with only correct positioning.

Some time later I'd visit their house and the speakers would still be where they were the last time I visited, totally wrong. When I asked about it he'd say something like, "oh the ole lady didn't like the speakers out in the middle of the room, they look real funny like that".

SO, yea if 95% of the population spent the same amount of total $ on a great mono system instead of a so-so stereo. they'd end up with a much better sounding system.

[Sal1950]

Was another forum ago...

 

Here's another something for you to continue with :

Such a 5-speaker arrangement might be fine for 5.1 Hollywood movies and for 5.0 surround titles' date=' but it's totally wrong for REAL 2-channel stereo recordings.[/i']

 

If the center and surrounds were disabled I don't see what's so "totally wrong" with that systems arrangement. Every stereo speaker has slightly different requirements but with the L & R speakers positioned out from the rear and side walls and angled slightly towards the listener, that setup looks good to me, maybe move the listening chairs a little closer to more of a equilateral triangle position, but still,, looks like it should sound pretty good to me.

[Sal1950]

"but it's totally wrong for REAL 2-channel stereo recordings."

I guess I mis-understood what the point was that writer was trying to make.?

[Sal1950]

Probably one of the best solo piano recordings I've ever heard! Perfectly centered piano that sounds like it's in the room with you and is the size of a real grand piano with lots of airy ambience on the sides, behind the piano and above it. Just delightful! Thanks.

He has the mikes inside the piano. LOLOLOL