The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[GJo]

I like Roon's user interface and streaming service integration.

 

I'm discouraged by Aurender's slow adoption of Roon Ready certification. When I purchased my N30SA, I contacted Aurender USA and asked about Roon Ready integration and was told it was imminent and hopefully would happen some time in October. A week ago, I followed up with Aurender USA and was informed they were hopeful this would happen before the end of the year.

 

Searching the web, I see that moving the target date forward appears to have been a familiar theme for some time.

 

I'm not looking to enter a debate about what sounds better. Simply expressing some frustration, and wishing Aurender could be more accurate about the status of Roon Ready integration into the Aurender universe.

[GJo]

1 hour ago, Mazza said:

 Aurender has always been known for not supporting Roon...

 

This was true in the past but the Aurender's decision has changed. Aurender has stated since early this year they will be supporting Roon.

 

I own and love an Aurender N30SA. 

 

I would hope more people would be accepting of folks who appreciate the option of using Roon with their Aurender. Having the option hurts no one, benefits some, and expands Aurender's potential customer base.

 

I regret posting my Roon Ready mini-rant as I anticipated, though hoped it wouldn't, fuel discordant Roon discussion in this Aurender thread. I have requested my post be removed for this reason.

 

 

 

 

[GJo]

10 minutes ago, Mazza said:

 

Is that Aurender's official position or music industry speculation?

 

 

 

Straight from Ari Margolis, Aurender's US Sales & Business Development Director.

[GJo]

11 minutes ago, Clyde2 said:

This could turn out to be very unfortunate. Understand I have zero expertise in this area, but should Aurender incorporate Roon compatibility into some devices, wouldn’t that place unforeseen demands upon legacy devices (pre-roon) in future firmware upgrades? Added capabilities in other devices I have/had resulted in some rough navigation for a time. I find myself in the ‘Kipdent group’ interested in sound quality and nothing else. If my concerns are unfounded, I’ll offer my apologies now. But it’s difficult to imagine the increased demands of the Roon wouldn’t have some level of negative effects upon the original intent of the devices’ design and implementation. 
 

On the other hand, Aurender has a level of dedication to their customer base second to none in my experience. The service and support they offer are a huge part of the appeal of their devices. Given that history, it is counterintuitive that they would jeopardize the ultimate performance of their gear to add Roon or anything else. But the prospect of unintended consequences looms large. I’ve never used Roon and purchased Aurender as a result. Their prior anti-Roon policy was well known. Because I have bought motor vehicles costing less than my W20SE, I’d hate to think a completely unnecessary development might hurt what it does best. 

My understanding is Roon will be user selectable. A user can enable Roon, or disable Roon and continue using Conductor. 
 

Innuos does similarly with Roon or Innuos Sense. A user selects one or the other, but both are available in the firmware. My experience with an Innuos Pulse was Sense indeed sounded better. 
 

It’s also my understanding Roon will initially be available only on higher end Aurender models. 
 

Most importantly, I think it’s best to trust Aurender to implement Roon in a manner that won’t affect sound quality for users who want to remain in the Aurender eco system via Conductor. 
 

[GJo]

@Clyde2, yours is a reasonable post. Thank you.

 

I realized yesterday that mentioning Roon in this dedicated Aurender thread was akin to walking into a Meat Council meeting wearing an "Eat More Chik'n" t-shirt. 

 

I don't want to make this into a Roon discussion. For me, Roon has been tremendous for a few reasons, the most valuable being discovery of new music.

 

Like everyone here, I want Aurender to maintain its high standard of playback in their servers/streamers. 

 

My viewpoint is if Roon Ready is available in Aurender firmware, and is user enabled (or not), and if Roon Ready firmware code doesn't affect sound quality for those who prefer not to enable Roon, then it's a win-win for customers and for Aurender.

 

I have no specific knowledge of why Aurender is planning to implement Roon, but it's not a leap to deduce that a massive pool of potential customers is eliminated by Aurender streamers not being Roon Ready. Consider the biggest competition to an Aurender N30SA is probably a Taiko Extreme, which offers users the option of using Roon or Taiko's dedicated playback/control software. Taiko owners, like Aurender owners, are extremely discerning, and many Taiko Extreme customers enjoy using Roon on their Extremes and don't have any complaints about reduced sound quality. If Taiko can do it, then certainly Aurender can, too.

 

[GJo]

Aurender Roon Ready tutorial

 

Conductor 4 does not yet show Roon as a selectable External Service.
 

Aurender must still be awaiting Roon certification. 

[GJo]

Conductor v4 (4.5.7) constantly requires reconnecting to my N30SA (v1.23.424). This did not happen prior to Conductor v4 (4.5.7) and/or Aurender (v1.23.424).

 

I find this to be true if I navigate away to another open app on my device (iPhone 13 Pro iOS v17.1.2) and then return to Conductor V4, or if the device's screen locks and requires unlocking.

 

I have submitted a service request through the Conductor app. 

[GJo]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

Roon integration can take a very long time on the Roon side.  On the Roon forums, Hegel routinely posted the Roon integration was imminent for several years before actually getting it.  Roon takes great care that the integration is flawless before giving out the certification.  Roon integration on Aurender may indeed be soon, or might be a well into the future.  It will get here though.

No doubt that is all true.

 

However, it takes both companies to make it work, and Aurender Inc's failure to get Conductor 4 working correctly for so many users makes me wonder where the responsibility lies on the Roon certification spectrum.

 

Admittedly harsh on my part, but my patience is tested while my N30SA continues to require repeated re-connecting during listening sessions.

[GJo]

8 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

I'm not an Aurender defender by any means.  I wrote a blistering review of the long since returned N100H on the Aurender website primarily because of the failings of Conductor and how it falls well short of the architecture and stability such high end (and excellent) hardware deserves.  Coming from the Roon/HQP world, I found Conductor to be non-competitive and outdated on multiple fronts (totally respect if others feel the opposite and love Conductor!)

 

Aurender even called me about the review!  They seemed rather stunned by what I wrote.  I may have played a small part in further nudging Aurender towards providing a Roon option for those who prefer such things.  Nothing wrong with choices.

 

I'm snooping around here to see where the Roon progress stands as I was extremely impressed by their hardware.  I've held off going with Lumin or HiFi Rose to wait and see where Aurender lands with their Roon implementation.

 

Can't say if the Roon delays are because of Roon or Aurender.  But I do know it's not a simple process to get Roon certified and Aurender, while fantastic on the hardware side, does seem to struggle by comparison on their software progress.  

 

 

 

I much prefer Roon's UI, and I'm eager to do a listening comparison between Roon and Conductor when Aurender is finally Roon certified.

 

As you stated, there's nothing wrong with choices. Particularly if the plug-in is selectable, which Roon will be.

[GJo]

28 minutes ago, kipdent said:

I’m guessing every defender of Roon, which you’ll intuit I greatly dislike, mist have no problem curating their libraries of music with no facility for genres. To me, this is the definition of a deal breaker. 

 

Libraries of music can be sorted by genres in Roon. I don't know if sorted is synonymous with curated in your statement.

 

[GJo]

20 minutes ago, NTWrong said:

I’m glad to hear that it’ll be optional, if Aurender does seek Roon compatibility. Even then, it could require Aurender to make regrettable compromises.  

 

Why not approach Roon from a positive viewpoint? Give it a chance. If it diminishes your experience in any way, even disabling Roon and using Conductor, then move on to another product.

 

If Taiko can make Roon integration work (along with disabling Roon in favor of Taiko's proprietary software if one chooses), then certainly Aurender can do likewise.

[GJo]

29 minutes ago, kipdent said:

Hi, GJo—

 

I should have been more specific. “Genres” in the Roon world is what Roon thinks they should be. You cannot create and sort by genres that make sense for your personal library in Roon unlike, say, Conductor or Audirvana which honors whatever genres you have tagged for your personally-owned music.

Thanks for the clarification. So, for example, I could tag some albums in my collection "Knucklehead Shoegaze" and curate those selections. 

 

If tags are a key element to your curation, then I can understand why not having that sort feature would be an issue. Thank you for sharing your perspective and improving my understanding.

 

Fortunately, you will be able to continue to use Conductor without any changes to your system settings. Win-win for all. 

[GJo]

5 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

You can tag your files however you like WRT Genres, and Roon will display them that way.  I have lots of different Genres and Roon honors what I've entered in the tags.

Perhaps beyond the scope of this thread, but a tutorial about this method would be helpful. Maybe a link to the procedure?

[GJo]

Just now, jhwalker said:

For example, when I purchase files from download sites, I run them through MP3Tag to make sure the tags (including Genre) are as I want them.  When I import them into Roon, I have the setting "Settings | Import Settings | Use Genres extracted from file tags" turned on.

That's the procedure I was interested to learn. Thanks.

[GJo]

I’ve heard clear differences in streaming software on the same devices, and they all sounded differently. 
 

- Innuos Pulse/Roon on an Innuos Pulse

- Roon/mConnectHD on Bricasti DACs equipped with Network Card

 

- LuminApp/Roon on two Lumin streamers

 

I have little doubt Conductor 4 will sound differently than Roon on Aurender devices.
 

The good news for most Aurender owners is the choice of streaming experiences.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GJo]

10 hours ago, Koso said:

 

If you want a more stable version right away, I recommend switching to the beta. The procedure is simple and is on the Aurender website here: https://ask.aurender.com/hc/en-us/articles/19629437629335-How-to-Install-Conductor-V4-Beta-for-iPad-
 

Thank you for that info. I downloaded the latest Beta iteration of Conductor V4 and will test it later today.

[GJo]

Conductor V4 (4.6.18) Beta for iPad is reconnecting to the N30SA (1.23.424) automatically and reliably. 

[GJo]

32 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

Does Conductor V4 improve on the overall organization and GUI from V3?  I'm leery of diving into V4 if it's going to be buggy, at least for now.

Conductor V4 GUI is similar to V3.

 

The recently released Beta V4 is not buggy in my system. V4 has the benefit of vTuner internet radio, which V3 lacks.

[GJo]

2 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

What improvements do you experience with V4 over V3?  Is it just the Tuner internet radio?  Or is there more to it?

Just vTuner for me. I use internet radio on a regular basis, so it's a nice added feature.

 

Otherwise, I don't notice much difference between the versions, but others who have drilled down deeper may have more to offer in that respect.

[GJo]

From my perspective, Ari Margolis was synonymous with Aurender Support in the USA. 
 

I wish him well.

 

I’m somewhat concerned about Aurender software and customer support moving forward. 

[GJo]

4 minutes ago, amargolis said:

Thank you very much @GJo. But, you need not be concerned! Actually, Mr. Kelly Scheidt has been heading up support for Aurender America for the better part of the last 2 years while I was more focused on sales and business development. The future of Aurender is bright. 🙂

Is this the same Kelly Scheidt of American Rheinmetall Vehicles?

[GJo]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think we should also look at things from a different perspective. I once asked Aurender if the company would ever consider licensing its software to other manufacturers. The answer was a quick, “no.” The reasoning is what’s important to this discussion. I was told the people at Aurender like to make things and be creative coming up with solutions to problems. 
 

Using that as a guidepost, one can see why Aurender resisted implementing Roon for so long. It isn’t all about money and market forces. It’s about being satisfied in one’s work as well. 

In the end, it’s always about money.

Follow the money and it will lead to the reason Aurender is working to partner with Roon.

[GJo]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

No. 
 

As an example, I could make much more money by covering different topics in audio. However, I have zero interest in that. I like what I do and want to enjoy it. I’ll happily forgo increased revenue and I think many people are the same (while many aren’t). 

I will concede it’s not always about money for some people.

 

Regarding Aurender, and most for-profit companies, I’m sticking with follow the money. Roon Ready = larger pool of potential customers = more sales. 

 

 

[GJo]

25 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

I appreciate your reflections and I have no doubt in what you're sharing.  However, Aurender's adoption of Roon in no way interferes with Aurender's desire to "make things and be creative coming up with solutions."  They can still create away with Conductor, or anything else.  The Roon implementation does not hinder that creativity.

 

Therefore, especially given for how long Aurender has staved off Roon adoption, its ultimate implementation is almost certainly about customer pressure to have Roon as an alternative to Conductor rather than Aurender suddenly falling in love with Roon.

 

If we follow your line of thinking, then Aurender's new found friendliness for Roon must likely be because adding Roon is now (not before, but now) opening some new creative door for the Aurender team.  Perhaps it is.  But I can't imagine that was the straw that broke the Aurender Roon camel's back.  The primary reason, not only, but primary reason is that Roon is getting more and more popular in the high end market and has become the standard bearer for library management software.  Conductor sounds great, but it's not even competitive with Roon on the library management/ music discovery front.  Conductor is a good 5 year behind Roon.  And it's for those reasons that market forces have pushed Aurender into adopting Roon, something they obviously have never been enthusiastic about.

 

Nearly every meaningful competitor to Aurender has their own proprietary software and Roon as an option.  Aurender has been the outlier.   And it's those market forces that have ultimately caused Aurender to, smartly, bring Roon aboard.

 

The decision itself to bring Roon aboard is Aurender being creative and coming up with solutions. 

Diplomatic and inclusive reply. 

[GJo]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

For example, a large electronics manufacturer put a Toslink input on a product solely because one audio personality wanted it and this would enable him to talk about the product without complaining about the lack of such input. The truth is often stranger than fiction. 

The manufacturer recognized that positive comments from the audio influencer would likely result in more sales of their product. Adding a toslink input to reduce the risk of a negative comment was a relatively small price to pay for higher net return. 
 

A wonderful example of following the money.