Uptone Audio Regen

[Cornan]

Thanks kk but that was not my point. I am trying to establish something different here, not what cable is best.

 

4est, I see your point, but then again, the same logic applies for the cable, nothing much in there...

 

IMO it all depends on which kind of DAC you are using. If you use a USB-powered DAC you need to have an adapter cable that separated the power from the data wires to minimize capasitive coupling. Example: Elijah Audio 6cm Quad link (special order) or Curious Cable Regen Link. However, if you use a self-powered DAC that do not need the power even for handshake you should definately cut the power using SBooster VBUS Isolator or use a 3-wire short USB link (special order Elijah Audio, Curious cable etc) for best possible sound.

Between the computer and Regen the power should always be cut off even if the DAC is self-powered or USB-powered. One last thing. Do not use electrical tape to cover pin 1. It will not help to fully get rid of the capasitive coupling IMHO.

[Cornan]

Thanks Cornan. I use an Auralic Vega fed by an Auralic Aries, usb connection via AudioQuest Diamond into Regen into Uptone short adapter.

So you would recommend using vbus isolator before or after Regen?

 

I suggest you buy two VBus Isolator and put one at the Aries and one between the Regen and the Vega together with the solid adapter. They will just cost you $15 each. Big difference in SQ.

 

If you need something more flexible ask [email protected] to make you a 3-wire 6cm Quad link with cryo treated gold silver Mundorf wires (no 5v power) to use after the Regen and only buy one VBus Isolator. Will cost you roughly $80 incl freight.

 

One more thing. If you find it hard to order the VBus Isolator Elijah Audio can make it for you as well for approx $75 (handmade). Just ask him for a BPM adapter without battery lead and battery pack.

[Cornan]

Hi Robin,

 

What you say is exactly what I mean to say, not that it is the best solution (or is mentioned/advertised by Uptone as the best solution) but that is what they believe to be the best solution for the price they sell the Regen.

 

I re-read what I wrote and I think that is clear, but do not want to transmit what you consider a "false" statement...

 

Cheers and happy listening everybody

 

[emoji445]

 

How would anybody know if Cryo treatment had actually been performed, or if there is any performance improvement over non Cryo treated Gold Silver Mundorf wires ?

I would suggest that you would be pushing the proverbial uphill to hear any possible differences under non sighted conditions between either with the Vbus isolator in use, or for that matter, a very short extender cable with the Vbus isolator in use.

It seems to me, that for most of us, there would be far more to gain by investing the money in something like the "Mystery PSU" when it becomes available, as the improvements would then be verifiable by technical means as well by looking at the analogue output of the DAC.

I agree that present measurements can't reveal all the differences we hear, but this seems to be going more than a bit overboard.

(And the funny thing here, is that according to some, I am supposed to be a Hard Line Subjectivist ! )

 

I think you miss the horse due to the flies! Cryo treatment was'nt the real issue here...only a description of an alternative option (even if I chose to beleive in cryo treatment, know that it is good stuff and think Michael at Elijah Audio is a very honest man).

I suggestions anybody with a open mind and a self-powered dac should invest $30 in two SBooster VBUS Isolator and hear it for them selves. It is a true eye-opener! I will in fact give it a try today between my Oppo HA-2 and iPhone5 to see if it works and most important what it does for SQ.

Regen PSU is very important and do not change due to the VBus Isolator. I use KingRex uPower (battery PSU) for the Regen as well with very good results!

[Cornan]

I am not disputing that part, as I go one better by re-terminating the cables with the +5V wire isolated. That is obviously better than using additional adapters/ converters or bits of sticky tape etc. .

 

Of course a good quality 3-wire USB cable before the Regen and a short 3-wire USB link after the Regen is the best solution. Adapter is only a way to find out if it works or a convenient way to use preferred USB cables at the selected spot. There is always advantages removing an adapter with a more simple solution. But the Vbus Isolator is very versatile since it could be used with any normal 4-wire USB cable of choice. Sticky tape over pin 1 however is not a good idea according to my own knowledge as well. It does´nt have the same good effect as a Vbus Isolator or Elijah Audio BPM adapter. Tried it many times...

 

BTW. Tried Vbus Isolator between my iPhone5 and Oppo HA-2. It did not work...so I guess the handshake is needed there.

[Cornan]

The concern with both self-powered and USB-powered DACs is the handshake. If you have a Regen in between it will cut out the power and supply new one. All of the USB-powered DACs I have tried have not needed the handshake...but that does´nt mean that all of them does´nt need it. I tried the Oppo HA-2 without the Regen (powered by uPower) in between...but my guess is that it will work if I add it there. However, I want to try it out before I call it 100% true. Anyone who is uncertain of the handshake can start by using electrical tape over pin 1 before ordering the Vbus Isolator (I had a Vbus already though). This is the only really good use for the sticky tape on pin 1!

[Cornan]

Hi Robin,

 

What you say is exactly what I mean to say, not that it is the best solution (or is mentioned/advertised by Uptone as the best solution) but that is what they believe to be the best solution for the price they sell the Regen.

 

I re-read what I wrote and I think that is clear, but do not want to transmit what you consider a "false" statement...

 

Cheers and happy listening everybody

 

[emoji445]

 

@sandyk

I understand that you have a very good knowledge in these matters by reading your posts. If you applied logic without the use of "soliers of army" why do you think that the 5v block gives that kind of SQ improvements after the Regen? To my own knowledge there is only the capasitive coupling along the lenght of the wire that could make a difference...and not a Regen issue. But considering the lenght short solid adapter the coupling cannot be that big...not even noticable if logic applies. Something will have to be enhanced or magnified inside the Regen? Could it be the impedance match that is also a kind of coupling have some effect to it all? This have puzzled me ever since I added the VBus Isolator after the Regen. The sound is improved a lot more than it should in theory. I expected a change...but not to this extent.

Another theory of my own is that the consistant 5v block makes my KingRex uPower more effective in powering the Regen? Since I started with the double 5v block I can actually clearly tell a difference if my DAC screen is dimmed black or not and if my uPower is running with or without the "Mean Well" connected to the mains. This have never happen to me before when listening to Tidal through JplayStreamer. It must mean something! :-)

[Cornan]

Hi Robin,

 

What you say is exactly what I mean to say, not that it is the best solution (or is mentioned/advertised by Uptone as the best solution) but that is what they believe to be the best solution for the price they sell the Regen.

 

I re-read what I wrote and I think that is clear, but do not want to transmit what you consider a "false" statement...

 

Cheers and happy listening everybody

 

[emoji445]

 

Frankly I think it takes a very open mnd to recommend investing everyone's money on a Mystery PSU that's not even available yet, no one knows exactly what it does/how it does it/or why it's doing it, and therefore has never been personally experienced by anyone who's highly recommending it. Can't get more open minded than that!

True...but at the same time who else than UpTone Audio will know how to truly improve the PSU for the Regen without it costing a fortune? ;-) On a budget I surely think that the "Mystery PSU" will perform beyond the price mark for the USB Regen without even listening to it. What can I say? I trust them! ;-)

 

But would I buy it instantly? I think not! I am happy were I am at! :-)

[Cornan]

Hi Robin,

 

What you say is exactly what I mean to say, not that it is the best solution (or is mentioned/advertised by Uptone as the best solution) but that is what they believe to be the best solution for the price they sell the Regen.

 

I re-read what I wrote and I think that is clear, but do not want to transmit what you consider a "false" statement...

 

Cheers and happy listening everybody

 

[emoji445]

 

I don't have a USB DAC so I can't verify that it does, although it wouldn't surprise me where the Meanwell SMPS +7.5V supply was used. A Linear PSU, or better still a battery supply should negate the need to cut that +5V line ?

I use the Regen with a USB memory stick or USB HDD for plugging into a USB input of my Oppo 103 which I use as a transport.

 

No, the MeanWell is not the one used for Regen. It is the one (same manufacturer, ie Mean Well Enterprices in Taiwan) used for my Taiwanease KingRex uPower battery PSU (charging) that is powering my Regen. My theory is that when I cut off the need to feed 5v power my uPower get an easier job supplying power to the Regen (providing more power head room/torq). My other theory is that the removed capasitive coupling affects the impedance matching (which is also a coupling) making less resistance. Please note that this is only my very own wierd theories. I am just just searching for clues for better understanding that hopefully will end up with better sq here!

 

However, I do know for certain that cutting the power between Regen and Dac is amazing...as long as your DAC accepts it.

[Cornan]

Well, it is a 7.5v SPMS. But I have it disconnected from the mains...even though my uPower have a DC switch which isolate the charging. The difference is there even soley on battery power.

 

I do also use Entreq Minimus grounding box connected to my DAC's RCA. I suppose the external grounding could have a part in this adventure as well...but could'nt be too sure!

[Cornan]

With a purely battery supply, it seems a bit weird that isolating the +5V to the DAC should make such a difference.

Does the Charge/DC Out switch break both legs of the supply to the battery , or just the +VE lead ?

Of course, if the charger is unplugged it shouldn't matter unless the leads are picking up RF/EMI.

 

I also think that it is a bit wierd that the final result of blocking both before and after Regen ends up with that good improvement. My uPower is constructed this way so I guess DC switch breaks both legs:

 

I am using the 7.5v output for the Regen of course. The 5v linear output is not used so far.

Anyway, I personally think that the reasons must be better power distribution, something with coupling, something with enhanced grounding or maybe something to do with the DAC input. Anyway, it feels that the good sq is enhanced by the Regen doing the 5v block after the Regen. I hear better resolution, am extremely happy about it but at the same time curious if there is more to gain with better knowledge what causes it.

[Cornan]

For anybody I have misled, apologies! My earlier contribution is not true:

 

 

I have now carried out the obvious (or not obvious, see below) experiment of sticky tape on the 5v pin in the USB connector. If that is all that I do, all the data goes through, music plays, and the Mini sees the DAC and reports back exactly what it did when all 4 wires were connected. My earlier report was with the ground wire also disconnected; although that works on some systems (see contributions from Karin on the S-Booster thread), I had forgotten that I also have a ground isolator in the USB line!

 

"Not obvious", because I have always been doubtful about the sticky tape in case you want to reverse this later. Putting gunge on to a carefully gold-plated contact doesn't seem like the best idea for expensive cables and components, but I now have a way over that for a preliminary check. I took a cheapo Chinese M-M adaptor and a F-F one and joined them, with tape on the 5v pin between the two. This gives a clunky (but disposable if necessary) isolator. I'm now waiting for my S-Booster isolator, and will report later on what changes this makes.

 

Interesting discussions going on there at the VBus Isolator thread! Me like! :-) I have always been extremely interested in external grounding and are using a Entreq Minimus connected via RCA inputs of my Pioneer U-05. The improvements is simply amazing! Nothing else dig out the music soul better! :-) The same goes for the double 5vbus block using VBus Isolator on computer output plus on the USB Regen output. The VBus Isolator on the computer USB output is clearly an obvious improvement (in your face). The one after the Regen is more subtile in the beginning...but you will realize the impact after a while just how much it have improved. Just wait for it and you will understand just how many "stars" that you have reveiled...and it feels like the Regen keeps on digging them out!

Looking forward to read your coming report! :-)

[Cornan]

Does Entrec have a connector for the shell of the USB connector so that it can be grounded at a central point?

 

Yes, they do! The Entreq Eartha cables have many different connectors to chose from. USB, RJ45, XLR,RCA,Spade etc. Their grounding boxes (Minimus/Tellus etc) is the central grounding point for a clean ground. Check it out! The improvements are fantastic! :-)

[Cornan]

Speaking of grounding. Have anyone on this thread tried to ground the USB Regens chassi to a grounding box (via a chassi screw). I am thinking about this option since I have the Entreq Minimus...but would be nice to hear if someone else have tried this perticular "tweak"! :-)

[Cornan]

Elijah Audio have a brand new and extremely interesting USB cable in the pipe-line called Konvertible.

It is a modular and convertible 3 way USB cable. The Data conductors are a twisted pair of Mundorf Silver/Gold 0.5mm wire in Chinese silk sleeving. The Audience Cryo Cu 5V and Gnd conductors are connected to either end of the cable by firm fit mini bullet connectors. Can be used as a regular USB cable, unplug the 5V lead to use as DATA/Gnd only cable and used as DATA only cable. The 5V can also be unplugged after the DAC/PC have said hello (ie. handshake) for those DAC’s that use the 5V for this purpose only.

 

Also supplied is a matching length battery lead (with “A” plug) to supply clean 5V battery power if needed.

 

The Elijah Audio Koverible USB cable will be available in 200mm for Uptone Regen, 700mm and 1m lenghts. The 700 mm version will cost approx. $250 + $20 P&H. Elijah Audios website will be updated with this new cable after the new year...until then any inquiries can be made to [email protected].

 

I personally think this is a brilliant USB cable that suits any type of DAC configuration...before and after the USB Regen.

 

Added a couple of sneak peaks! :-)

[Cornan]

This is a brand new cable that is still not in production. It is owner generated though since I use Elijah Audio Quad link in my system. The new Kovertible USB cable is the same Quad link but have been vastly improved both due to the effect that the 5v power have on the sq and due to the fact that there is no existing USB cable that works for any type of DAC. Self-powered or USB-powered. Except for the fact that I know the Quad link sound amazing this cable would work on any DAC on the planet...and would even work without power on DACs that needs handshake since you just unplug the 5v wire after the handshake is done. If you have two different DACs in the same system it will work on both.

 

I will get the new Kovertible cable after the new year for audition...and I cannot wait to get my hands on it :-)

[Cornan]

Absolutely no screening against RF/EMI, and very unlikely to meet the USB data pair impedance specifications either .

 

BRILLIANT !

 

It looks like everybody and his dog is out to make a quick buck!

 

Well, you know the dog from the bark...and I am not barking!

[Cornan]

It is a fact that another USB cable that skimps on screening has quite a high return rate for failing to work correctly for many members.

Does the blatant advertising of this yet to be released cable , in the guise of discussion, even belong in the Uptone Audio forum section , especially as it has yet to be tested ?

 

I leave it up to anyone to descide for them selves. I am not selling anything here. Just personally thought it was a great innovation based on my own experiances. That is all.

[Cornan]

Hi, I have an Regen Amber and find that with it installed, I get clock sync issues (white noise/static) at DSD128. Anyone else experience this? It usually comes and goes, especially after switching source material format (eg Red Book or PCM 192/24) which is then up sampled to DSD128 using HQPlayer. Thanks! Hammer.

 

Difficult to help without any info regarding your current audio gears...especially which DAC you are using.

However, I have experianced some strange issues narrowed down to the DAC settings, specificly the Lock range settings on my Pioneer U-05 in combination with maximum up-sampling and 32-bit. If I use too low lock range settings the sound can suddenly get slightly louder as if something have suddenly "lost the grip". Not exactly white noise though. By using one step higher lock range (less extreme) my issue goes away. Anyway, I suggestions you try other DAC settings to see if your perticular issue goes away.

I hope that helps! :-)

[Cornan]

Hi, yes, that info would be helpful: I have an Auralic Vega DAC and my system is running Windows 10 64 bit with 32GB of memory. I would like to keep my Auralic Clock at EXACT. Thank you. Hammer.

 

Check the clock settings at AUTO and see if your problems dissapear. Not all settings are guarantee to work on DSD128. Then try to narrow down what best setting that works on your perticular setup. I am afraid that a trial and error is the only way to find out what is causing your issue. It could be anything from W10 to USB driver or cables that is the "weak link" for acheiving the best possible settings. Sometimes it is just impossible and you will just have to live with the "second best option".

 

If you are not using programs like Fidelizer Pro or Process Lasso these could potensially help you as well. Also checking W10 Audio performance tweaks is a tip.

[Cornan]

Well, it works fine without the Regen Amber...so I assume that's the issue?

 

Normally I would assume that USB Regen amber would actually improve things due to the SI and impedance match. Do you have the proper W10 driver for the Aurelic Vega DAC? If there are no W10 drivers available try to run it in W7 compabillity mode (If you have upgrades from W7 to W10 without changing the USB drivers). Could do the magic. Some have also reported driver issues with the Regen which works again after uninstall the drivers and install them again with Regen in place. Check it out.

[Cornan]

+1 I feel that the attack dogs is much more present

on this forum than for example Head-Fi and Jplay.

With that said I beleive that there is several improvements to be done on the USB Regen. Battery PSU is one and blocking the 5vbus power before AND after the USB Regen is the other. My honest recommendation are KingRex uPower for powering the USB Regen and Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite USB cable before AND after the USB Regen. Mind blowing! :-)

[Cornan]

I leave it up to anyone to descide for them selves. I am not selling anything here. Just personally thought it was a great innovation based on my own experiances. That is all.

 

Finally, my Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 500mm w/o 5v lead is on the way! I have got the 160mm Regen Link for quite a while now and must say it is the best Regen Link I have EVER tried. But before I get all excited I will await my 500mm K-Lite to give you a honest IRL experiance of the Konvertible Lite before AND after the USB Regen without 5v lead. Without reveal too much I can just tell you that it sounds simply awesome already. I will keep you posted with my first impressions with the Konvertible Lite before the USB Regen. Stay tuned! ;-)

[Cornan]

Finally, my Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 500mm w/o 5v lead is on the way! I have got the 160mm Regen Link for quite a while now and must say it is the best Regen Link I have EVER tried. But before I get all excited I will await my 500mm K-Lite to give you a honest IRL experiance of the Konvertible Lite before AND after the USB Regen without 5v lead. Without reveal too much I can just tell you that it sounds simply awesome already. I will keep you posted with my first impressions with the Konvertible Lite before the USB Regen. Stay tuned! ;-)

 

Now I have had the Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 500 w/o 5v lead for a couple of days. Just as I expected it did concur my Vertere Acoustic Pulse D-Fi v2 USB cable with SBooster VBUS Isolator. For anyone not aware of the Vetere Acoustics I suggest you Google around. The difference was'nt as obvious as changing Regens solid adapter to the Konvertible Lite 160. That was a vast difference with just about everything sounding so much better. Mind blowing! The change from Vetere+VBus Isolator was more like another jump into the depth of the music. The sence of space became more pronounced and detailed. The echos became more spacious and unfamiliar details became crystal clear. Everything sounds very smooth and natural to my ears. As said the changes was more subtile with the K-Lite 500 w/o 5v in front of the Regen than the 160 w/o 5v after the Regen...but it all adds up to an amazing couple IMHO. It adds up to the very best sound that I have ever heard on my setup. That really mean a lot to me! Thanks Michael at Elijah Audio. Your cables are both very affordable and amazing! :-)

 

I recommend anyone to try the K-Lite range. Michael is a really nice and honest man with top notch quality cables. He have a 60 days satisfaction guarantee on his his cables. No questions asked. Just be careful with them and you will have absolutely nothing to loose. I promise you will never return them. Just Remember. For a good reason the data wires is not shielded so be careful not to cross any power or ground wires in the path and make sure to separate the 5v & GND wires as much as possible. Otherwise you may defeat the purpose of the capasitive coupling along the lenght of the wire that these cables are suppose to cure. This is one of the things that makes this range so special as well as the detachable 5v wire that works with any DAC...handshake or not.

 

If you are a lazy reader I will make it easy with a short sentence. Try it...or be sorry! ;-)

[Cornan]

Thanks everyone! If possible, could someone provide a link to battery pack like the one John mentioned that doesn't require a great deal of DIY?

 

I will be buying the UpTone LPS when it comes out, but would love something in the meantime

I use KingRex uPower with great result! :-)

 

 

It can be found here http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/upgrades/639-kingrex-u-power-lithium-ion-battery.html or at Moon Audio as well if you are in the US...but I think you have to call them to order.

 

Will be a perfect match for the coming LPS-1 as well! ;-)

[Cornan]

I like the Kingrex U-Power - except for the capacity.

The 7.5V fits the Sonore uRendu better than the LPS-1 I suppose?

What is wrong with 2,6A capacity? More than enough for the USB Regen, microRendu and the LPS-1. Remember that uPower will only charge the Ultracaps in the LPS-1 and will run without ANY connection to the mains (=no backward noise into the mains). If you want to use all voltages ranges withbthe LPS-1 (ie. higher than Regen or mR for example) you should however look for a 12v battery supply instead.